Are Character re balances returning?

thedarkphoenix

Some of the most useful changes to the game/characters have come from this.

From IM40 to nick fury and even Invisible woman. It also provided something to look forward to each season. Will we see the return of this anytime soon, there are more than enough characters that can use everything from slight tweaks to major overhauls. In all tiers... There is no reason for any 5 to be "sub par" let alone bad.

Anyway hopefully we'll get word on this feature returning. I think the only bad  rework was kingpin...he went from solid to bad lol.

Borstock

thedarkphoenix said:

 I think the only bad  rework was kingpin...he went from solid to bad lol.

Gambit says hi.

The rockett

October 2017 was the last rounds minus Gambit.  Who knows what will happen.  I guess the question now is what will happen first.  Will a nerf or a buff happen next?  

LifeofAgony

10 months and counting with only 1 toon getting any attention is pretty stunning but also telling how little they’re focused on character balance, and how much energy is being dumped into supports.

thedarkphoenix

I've gather all the dragon balls and summoned @Brigby any update or insight you can give us? Has this kind of been put on the back burner and focus on new characters is the main thing or is this something we can look forward to again?

Or should we not hold our breath? lol

JHawkInc

I think the reality is that character rebalances never went away, and it just took a stupidly long time to get Gambit sorted, both due to him being top of the 5* meta (where tinkering him at all is inevitably going to make someone angry) and the many months they spent trying to shift the meta instead of shifting Gambit (you get hints of that in dev comments when they've mentioned other 5*s).

Hopefully the dust will settle and they can get back to them occasionally. We could still use some Wasp/IW class updates to some 4's and 5's (at this point I'm going to assume they don't care about how garbage some of the 3's are, since they're widely available and you'll be playing with 4's eventually anyways). And not some Kingpin-class updates. Hell, Kingpin needs another update to his black power, while we're at it.

HoundofShadow

They did some small tweakings to some characters' abilities. Based on the sentiments gathered here, I don't think that count as character rebalances, so all those changes were ignored or forgotten.

Straycat

JHawkInc said:

I think the reality is that character rebalances never went away, and it just took a stupidly long time to get Gambit sorted, both due to him being top of the 5* meta (where tinkering him at all is inevitably going to make someone angry) and the many months they spent trying to shift the meta instead of shifting Gambit (you get hints of that in dev comments when they've mentioned other 5*s).

Hopefully the dust will settle and they can get back to them occasionally. We could still use some Wasp/IW class updates to some 4's and 5's (at this point I'm going to assume they don't care about how garbage some of the 3's are, since they're widely available and you'll be playing with 4's eventually anyways). And not some Kingpin-class updates. Hell, Kingpin needs another update to his black power, while we're at it.

We'll never know definitively, but I do think they went away. They did a good job covering the most necessary offenders in the 4* tier, are mostly done with the 3* tier, and I guess they are being cautious about the 5* tier. I think at some point they said we're good on rebalances and took them off the regular season checklist. Its hard to speculate without knowing their development process. Did they literally reassign the rebalance team to work on supports? Or are they working on new characters, rebalances, and supports all the time, and are left on the drawing board until called upon?

tiomono

HoundofShadow said:

They did some small tweakings to some characters' abilities. Based on the sentiments gathered here, I don't think that count as character rebalances, so all those changes were ignored or forgotten.

It's not that they are being ignored, those were not balances so much as updating ingame text so its easier to use characters that utilise a color on the board being the most prominent.

JHawkInc

Straycat said:

JHawkInc said:

I think the reality is that character rebalances never went away, and it just took a stupidly long time to get Gambit sorted, both due to him being top of the 5* meta (where tinkering him at all is inevitably going to make someone angry) and the many months they spent trying to shift the meta instead of shifting Gambit (you get hints of that in dev comments when they've mentioned other 5*s).

Hopefully the dust will settle and they can get back to them occasionally. We could still use some Wasp/IW class updates to some 4's and 5's (at this point I'm going to assume they don't care about how garbage some of the 3's are, since they're widely available and you'll be playing with 4's eventually anyways). And not some Kingpin-class updates. Hell, Kingpin needs another update to his black power, while we're at it.

We'll never know definitively, but I do think they went away. They did a good job covering the most necessary offenders in the 4* tier, are mostly done with the 3* tier, and I guess they are being cautious about the 5* tier. I think at some point they said we're good on rebalances and took them off the regular season checklist. Its hard to speculate without knowing their development process. Did they literally reassign the rebalance team to work on supports? Or are they working on new characters, rebalances, and supports all the time, and are left on the drawing board until called upon?

I would say what tiers they are "done" with depends on your point of view, because quite a few 3's could use some work. I doubt they'll get that work, but the imbalance remains (whether it's poor kits like Beast and Colossus, or lackluster powers like Ock's green or the nonsense way Hulk's black scales).

The reason I think they didn't stop is because the stop happened with Gambit. It didn't happen just before, or just after, it happened with him. Besides, the point of these is to address community complaints, and no one in their right mind would look at the sheer number of complaints we still get (not just about rebalances, but about specific characters) and deem the job "finished." I think it's pretty fair to read that they try to make small adjustments as they go (as they've said as much in the past), and have been stuck trying to get past Gambit for ages.

I would ignore the "people were reassigned to work on supports" line, because there aren't any facts to support it. I would even argue that there's more evidence to suggest people are trying to blame things they don't like (the lack of rebalances) on supports because they dislike supports, and that it's an emotional argument, not a factual one. We truly don't know the breakdown in who does what and what things are "getting done" when rebalances happen (or what things "aren't" getting done when someone is working on a rebalance), but the claims that "those people went to supports" seem more about making supports the boogeyman than actually discussing why we haven't had rebalances in so long (which, again, I believe to ultimately be because they were taking a very slow and calculated approach towards trying to fix Gambit, instead of doing what the forums want and tinkering things thousands of times until something works).

Straycat

JHawkInc said:

I would say what tiers they are "done" with depends on your point of view, because quite a few 3's could use some work. I doubt they'll get that work, but the imbalance remains (whether it's poor kits like Beast and Colossus, or lackluster powers like Ock's green or the nonsense way Hulk's black scales).

The reason I think they didn't stop is because the stop happened with Gambit. It didn't happen just before, or just after, it happened with him. Besides, the point of these is to address community complaints, and no one in their right mind would look at the sheer number of complaints we still get (not just about rebalances, but about specific characters) and deem the job "finished." I think it's pretty fair to read that they try to make small adjustments as they go (as they've said as much in the past), and have been stuck trying to get past Gambit for ages.

I would ignore the "people were reassigned to work on supports" line, because there aren't any facts to support it. I would even argue that there's more evidence to suggest people are trying to blame things they don't like (the lack of rebalances) on supports because they dislike supports, and that it's an emotional argument, not a factual one. We truly don't know the breakdown in who does what and what things are "getting done" when rebalances happen (or what things "aren't" getting done when someone is working on a rebalance), but the claims that "those people went to supports" seem more about making supports the boogeyman than actually discussing why we haven't had rebalances in so long (which, again, I believe to ultimately be because they were taking a very slow and calculated approach towards trying to fix Gambit, instead of doing what the forums want and tinkering things thousands of times until something works).

Not saying the 3* tier is perfect, just that they are done with them. The lack of new 3*s would suggest they are.

I see your point, but its not like they had to postpone a Sandman fix until they figured out Gambit. They tried addressing it with counters like Archangel and IW Cap, if they really wanted to avoid a nerf why wouldn't they do it with reworks of old 5*s?

I thought they said or implied on some thread that the lack of rebalances was due to a big new feature. Maybe its actually saved covers's fault.

BoyWonder1914

They were on somewhat of a roll for a stretch, where we could expect about 2 every season. They would also roll out a side PVE event where you got to test out the newly re-worked 4-stars. I would imagine that we have done enough complaining since then that they are at the very least aware of the desire for more re-works. It's just a matter of if they dedicate the time and people to doing it while trying to work on all this other content. I certainly don't expect anything in the near future, while we continue to push through this "First 10 Years" celebration and move on to Anniversary after. 

jackstar0

Wasp and Banner both deserve some respectful adjustments.

My main reason for thinking it won't happen soon is due to the buy-back aspect. I hope I'm wrong and that both get some buffs, but I just don't know.

Daredevil217

JHawkInc said:

Straycat said:

JHawkInc said:

I think the reality is that character rebalances never went away, and it just took a stupidly long time to get Gambit sorted, both due to him being top of the 5* meta (where tinkering him at all is inevitably going to make someone angry) and the many months they spent trying to shift the meta instead of shifting Gambit (you get hints of that in dev comments when they've mentioned other 5*s).

Hopefully the dust will settle and they can get back to them occasionally. We could still use some Wasp/IW class updates to some 4's and 5's (at this point I'm going to assume they don't care about how garbage some of the 3's are, since they're widely available and you'll be playing with 4's eventually anyways). And not some Kingpin-class updates. Hell, Kingpin needs another update to his black power, while we're at it.

We'll never know definitively, but I do think they went away. They did a good job covering the most necessary offenders in the 4* tier, are mostly done with the 3* tier, and I guess they are being cautious about the 5* tier. I think at some point they said we're good on rebalances and took them off the regular season checklist. Its hard to speculate without knowing their development process. Did they literally reassign the rebalance team to work on supports? Or are they working on new characters, rebalances, and supports all the time, and are left on the drawing board until called upon?

I would say what tiers they are "done" with depends on your point of view, because quite a few 3's could use some work. I doubt they'll get that work, but the imbalance remains (whether it's poor kits like Beast and Colossus, or lackluster powers like Ock's green or the nonsense way Hulk's black scales).

The reason I think they didn't stop is because the stop happened with Gambit. It didn't happen just before, or just after, it happened with him. Besides, the point of these is to address community complaints, and no one in their right mind would look at the sheer number of complaints we still get (not just about rebalances, but about specific characters) and deem the job "finished." I think it's pretty fair to read that they try to make small adjustments as they go (as they've said as much in the past), and have been stuck trying to get past Gambit for ages.

I would ignore the "people were reassigned to work on supports" line, because there aren't any facts to support it. I would even argue that there's more evidence to suggest people are trying to blame things they don't like (the lack of rebalances) on supports because they dislike supports, and that it's an emotional argument, not a factual one. We truly don't know the breakdown in who does what and what things are "getting done" when rebalances happen (or what things "aren't" getting done when someone is working on a rebalance), but the claims that "those people went to supports" seem more about making supports the boogeyman than actually discussing why we haven't had rebalances in so long (which, again, I believe to ultimately be because they were taking a very slow and calculated approach towards trying to fix Gambit, instead of doing what the forums want and tinkering things thousands of times until something works).

Not only that, but they’ve done some phenomenal stuff in that time such as cover save, tapping fix, hybrid PvP, turning off animations, other UI fixes, power description updates (like Nightcrawler), etc. I really hope they do some major character reworks (Falcap, Kingpin again, X-Force, Kraven, etc.) but we shouldn’t act like all they’ve done is supports. 

KGB

I would imagine that any re-works would prioritize 3* and 4* characters over 5* ones like Banner / Wasp. The obvious reason would be that 95% or more of the player base is *not* in 5* land and wouldn't benefit (or care) from any updates to 5* characters. Oh the other hand buffing some unloved 3 and 4* characters would go a long way to helping players in those tiers.

I know the counter argument is going to be the big spenders / whales are in 5* land and that's obviously true but those players are chasing new characters, not those already banished to the dilution of classics (with Wasp being the exception for a few more weeks so she literally needs a buff this offseason if it's ever going to be meaningful).

KGB

plano78

Given Gambit's nerf, I think it would be good to rework any characters that attempted to address his power set. That is, Archangel (his black power was clearly an attempt to fight Gambit's powers) and Lumbercap (the cheap purple seemed to be an attempt to give players a chance to fight back early). Also, speaking of Archangel, his "anti-Vulture" passive clearly needs a re-work. 

The rockett

plano78 said:

Given Gambit's nerf, I think it would be good to rework any characters that attempted to address his power set. That is, Archangel (his black power was clearly an attempt to fight Gambit's powers) and Lumbercap (the cheap purple seemed to be an attempt to give players a chance to fight back early). Also, speaking of Archangel, his "anti-Vulture" passive clearly needs a re-work. 

If Arch’s blue would send them air borne, then his passive would smash them, that would be a great start. 

thedarkphoenix

The rockett said:

plano78 said:

Given Gambit's nerf, I think it would be good to rework any characters that attempted to address his power set. That is, Archangel (his black power was clearly an attempt to fight Gambit's powers) and Lumbercap (the cheap purple seemed to be an attempt to give players a chance to fight back early). Also, speaking of Archangel, his "anti-Vulture" passive clearly needs a re-work. 

If Arch’s blue would send them air borne, then his passive would smash them, that would be a great start. 

That would be neat, even if his passive included something like characters that are stunned when AA has x amount of AP are sent airborne instead. Allowing his passive to kick in via other characters stun as well too.

The rockett

thedarkphoenix said:

The rockett said:

plano78 said:

Given Gambit's nerf, I think it would be good to rework any characters that attempted to address his power set. That is, Archangel (his black power was clearly an attempt to fight Gambit's powers) and Lumbercap (the cheap purple seemed to be an attempt to give players a chance to fight back early). Also, speaking of Archangel, his "anti-Vulture" passive clearly needs a re-work. 

If Arch’s blue would send them air borne, then his passive would smash them, that would be a great start. 

That would be neat, even if his passive included something like characters that are stunned when AA has x amount of AP are sent airborne instead. Allowing his passive to kick in via other characters stun as well too.

Agreed.   Only Vulture (goes airborne), Riri (sends airborne) and Nova (goes airborne) does this passive even work.  It’s kinda dumb just sitting there and just this little tweak makes him a lot more vauleable. 

Jaedenkaal

The rockett said:

thedarkphoenix said:

The rockett said:

plano78 said:

Given Gambit's nerf, I think it would be good to rework any characters that attempted to address his power set. That is, Archangel (his black power was clearly an attempt to fight Gambit's powers) and Lumbercap (the cheap purple seemed to be an attempt to give players a chance to fight back early). Also, speaking of Archangel, his "anti-Vulture" passive clearly needs a re-work. 

If Arch’s blue would send them air borne, then his passive would smash them, that would be a great start. 

That would be neat, even if his passive included something like characters that are stunned when AA has x amount of AP are sent airborne instead. Allowing his passive to kick in via other characters stun as well too.

Agreed.   Only Vulture (goes airborne), Riri (sends airborne) and Nova (goes airborne) does this passive even work.  It’s kinda dumb just sitting there and just this little tweak makes him a lot more vauleable. 

And Colossus

shartattack

and gwenpool