Summon objectives

madwren

Could we please have some clarification on the summon and cast objectives? The playerbase has long lobbied for cast to mean "from your hand" and summon to mean "from anywhere", but it doesn't appear to be working that strictly.

Recent changes mean that this is now being inconsistently applied, and it's hard to build for objectives if you don't know how things are going to react.  Why does Primevals' Glorious Rebirth count as summons for Node A on The Dragon War, but not as summons on Across Ixalan's second node? 

FindingHeart8

I've been ranting about this too on other threads.  If Octagon is striving to make the mtgpq cards more like paper mtg cards, they need to follow the rules of how the cards are worded.  These technical aspects make a huge difference to gameplay mechanics.

babar3355

I think they tried to do what you suggested @madwren but screwed it up.  So now summon abilities like Rebirth or Vivian's Incantation count as both summon and cast, although they should only work for summon.  I also think they are just applying this going forward and did not retroactively apply the new coding to older events.

Anyway, some clarity from the dev's is definitely be warranted

hawkyh1

I think 'summon' for the older events means cast from
hand a creature type card.

HH

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FindingHeart8

MarvinFine said:

From June 2016:

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/45547/card-wording-templating

I'm super skeptical that there are legal barriers to changing the wording (and not just because of the individual who commented it [forum rules question: no longer existing account or active player so fair game to mention name?]

Mburn7

FindingHeart8 said:

MarvinFine said:

From June 2016:

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/45547/card-wording-templating

I'm super skeptical that there are legal barriers to changing the wording (and not just because of the individual who commented it [forum rules question: no longer existing account or active player so fair game to mention name?]

The legal issues mentioned by he-who-might-not-be-able-to-be-named seemed to be more with the open-sourcing aspect of it rather than the change the wording aspect of it.  I'm sure the wording can be changed to better follow the PQ mechanics (as long as its consistent)

FindingHeart8

Mburn7 said:

FindingHeart8 said:

MarvinFine said:

From June 2016:

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/45547/card-wording-templating

I'm super skeptical that there are legal barriers to changing the wording (and not just because of the individual who commented it [forum rules question: no longer existing account or active player so fair game to mention name?]

The legal issues mentioned by he-who-might-not-be-able-to-be-named seemed to be more with the open-sourcing aspect of it rather than the change the wording aspect of it.  I'm sure the wording can be changed to better follow the PQ mechanics (as long as its consistent)

madwren

MarvinFine said:

From June 2016:

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/45547/card-wording-templating

This link discusses the inconsistent wording and description on the cards themselves; i.e., DIFFERENT wording, SAME effects. I'm discussing the opposite.

We have objectives with identical wording, that function completely differently based on which event we're in; i.e., SAME wording, DIFFERENT effects.

We should be able to expect "summon 4 or more creatures" to operate consistently--by either counting or not counting tokens--from event to event, node to node.

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DBJones

They are both templating, the new inconsistency is just more problematic than the old one. Multiple phrasings to mean the same thing is confusing, but the same phrasing meaning different things with no easy way to tell which is worse.

ZW2007-

Another similar issue I noticed in The Dragon War:
A token creature made by Karn's third ability counted towards the Node A (or Bant/Arcades/top node) objectives to 'summon 3 or more creatures during a single turn' and 'cast 3 creatures with toughness 5 or more'.

However, using Saheeli's first ability to make 4 thopter tokens did not count for the objective to 'cast 4 or more creatures with cost 10 or less' on Node E (or Jund/Vaevictus/bottom left node).

I honestly did not expect Karn's third to count towards the cast objective but after it did, I expected Saheeli's first to count towards the cast objective on the other node; except it didn't, and it cost me.

ElfNeedsFood

The tokens didn’t appear to have a cost to metric off of...  It was a fun jumble of “what can I get away with?”

arNero

I agree about with the overall dislike to the inconsistency. If I'm not mistaken, in the Arcades node, one of the objectives say summon and the other play, and yet activating Kiora's ultimate fulfills BOTH of them. So, uh, okay, thank you, but could we please get things cleared up here?

ZW2007-

ElfNeedsFood said:

The tokens didn’t appear to have a cost to metric off of...  It was a fun jumble of “what can I get away with?”

It's my assumption that tokens have a casting cost of 0 (just like anything without a mana cost specifically printed on a paper card, ie lands). Angrath and Teferi can target them with their abilities that require the target to have a casting cost less than X so it stands to reason that those tokens should qualify for having a cost less than 10 for the objective.

hawkyh1

I think tokens are not cast with a cost of 10 or less.
eg unlvenwald hydra is cast at 1/1 it then makes it
to 5/5, it was never cast with power of 5 or more.
once on the board tokens use their current cost to
to determine if certain abilities can be applied to
them.

HH

madwren

ZW2007- said:

ElfNeedsFood said:

The tokens didn’t appear to have a cost to metric off of...  It was a fun jumble of “what can I get away with?”

It's my assumption that tokens have a casting cost of 0 (just like anything without a mana cost specifically printed on a paper card, ie lands). Angrath and Teferi can target them with their abilities that require the target to have a casting cost less than X so it stands to reason that those tokens should qualify for having a cost less than 10 for the objective.

That's my assumption too, but is it true? I thought I read somewhere that there were some tokens that people had found while using Teferi that weren't bounceable (even when there was room in hand), which might mean some tokens are incorrectly coded.

DBJones

Can Hostage Taker still put tokens into your hand? That'd let you check the cost.

bk1234

There's no rhyme or reason to the templating on this and it differs from event to event. It should be a priority to fix as it makes for a bad user experience --- and especially new user experience to never know what is going to count and what isn't. 

Kinesia

Just want to add a little, most things are covered and I completely agree things should be standardised!

Tokens _used_ to have a casting cost printed on them, my belief is that this is now hidden, not removed.


Once the wording is sorted out, differences like summon vs cast in events NEED their own tutorial section in-game. Since events are so big there needs to be a tutorial that teaches about meeting objectives and what counts as cast or summon.

rafalele

Kinesia said:

Just want to add a little, most things are covered and I completely agree things should be standardised!

Tokens _used_ to have a casting cost printed on them, my belief is that this is now hidden, not removed.


Once the wording is sorted out, differences like summon vs cast in events NEED their own tutorial section in-game. Since events are so big there needs to be a tutorial that teaches about meeting objectives and what counts as cast or summon.

Not just a tutorial, what it would be nice, but also meaning always the same thing in different events and wording the same in different languages.

Can not remember now,  but I think it was in node D the word used in Spanish was the equivalent to summon and it should be written cast to get the objectives .