Fraying Omnipotence is bugged [As Designed]

rafalele
rafalele Posts: 876 Critical Contributor
edited September 2018 in MtGPQ Bugs & Technical Issues
This mythic says:
Each player loses half their life up to 20 and discards half their hand rounded up. Destroy all first and second creatures.

I had full hand and no creature in the battlefield, the opponent had 1 card on hand and 3 creatures in battlefield and it did not cast for 2 or 3 turns. I finally win without casting it. 

Should both players have all the conditions in order that it can be casted or it is bugged and it should cast without fulfilling all the conditions?

If has to fulfill all the conditions it should not be a mythic and costs 19.

Update:
It is bugged, now it just have been casted as soon as my opponent and I have one creature in the battlefield. So it is bad coded.


//Edited Title - Tombstone

Comments

  • rafalele
    rafalele Posts: 876 Critical Contributor
    I am the only one with this myyhic?
  • Tilwin90
    Tilwin90 Posts: 662 Critical Contributor
    edited August 2018
    No but I think this was already signaled.
    Nevertheless, it's not as much bugged as another ambiguous situation where it's not made clear when you can cast a card or not. (Doomfall for instance was also not castable if the opponent had no cards in hand or no creatures onto the battlefield).

    As it is the card now, yes, it's garbage, but the problem is they are not being explicit here with the casting conditions. Paper Magic solution here is rather straightforward:
    - If a card has mandatory "targets", you cannot cast that card without having all mandatory targets.
        -- If the card says "Destroy TARGET creature. [CARD NAME] deals 3 damage to that creature's controller", you cannot cast the card without targetting the creature.
       -- If the card says "Target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn, then another target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn", you need to specify two distinct creatures. The spell will not cast if you don't have two available targets.
       -- If the card says "Return up to 3 target creatures to their owner's hand" (see Baral's Expertise), I THINK you can cast it without targetting anything (for whatever reason).
    - If a card has supplementary casting conditions, those are made explicit on the card. Examples include Hewed Stone Retainers, Feast of Blood and Talara's Battalion.

    - Additional costs are also made explicit on the card - in those cases, you can't cast the spell if you don't pay the costs. This is contrary to MTGPQ where cards sometimes "drain" you of mana for instance, but it's not always obvious if the attached effect will occur or not (sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't). Same for discard - discard can be a cost (so you can't cast the spell without any cards in hand) or effect (hence if you cast it as the sole card in hand, you get no disadvantage). Very very important!

    - Since we have no stack in MTGPQ, I will not bother discussing situations where an object on the stack ends up having no valid targets.

    So yes, in this case, it seems you can't cast Fraying Omnipotence unless both players have cards in hand and creatures onto the battlefield. Stupid condition? Yes! Definitely! I would prefer a cast check prior to casting the spell itself, and let the player decide when they want to cast it. If it ends up only dealing damage to both players, then so be it!


  • rafalele
    rafalele Posts: 876 Critical Contributor
    Thank you for your answer Tilwin90. Helping as always. 
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,260 Chairperson of the Boards
    Bumping to see if there's any resolution on whether this is actually supposed to work in the way Tilwin excellently described, because it makes the card useless.
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    Even if it _is_ supposed to, that design needs to re-analysed based on how it's worked out in practise.

    It would be better if you could just cast it whenever you wanted and it did whatever effects it could manage. It already has downsides, forcing you to meet the extra requirements just becomes painful, not fun and creative.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Just Dropped In
    Kinesia said:
    Even if it _is_ supposed to, that design needs to re-analysed based on how it's worked out in practise.

    It would be better if you could just cast it whenever you wanted and it did whatever effects it could manage. It already has downsides, forcing you to meet the extra requirements just becomes painful, not fun and creative.
    Agreed
  • rafalele
    rafalele Posts: 876 Critical Contributor
    Kinesia said:
    Even if it _is_ supposed to, that design needs to re-analysed based on how it's worked out in practise.

    It would be better if you could just cast it whenever you wanted and it did whatever effects it could manage. It already has downsides, forcing you to meet the extra requirements just becomes painful, not fun and creative.
    Perfect.
  • Tombstone
    Tombstone ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 1,208 Chairperson of the Boards
    The wording on the card doesn't currently suggest that you would need to both have creatures out in order to play it, despite that seeming to be the case. I'll see if I can get the team to take a look at this card. 
  • Tombstone
    Tombstone ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 1,208 Chairperson of the Boards
    Hi everyone, I've gotten confirmation that this card is currently functioning as designed. The team has stated that it's required that cards with secondary effects like this one now have the criteria for the secondary effects met before they can be cast. 
  • rafalele
    rafalele Posts: 876 Critical Contributor
    edited September 2018
    Tombstone said:
    Hi everyone, I've gotten confirmation that this card is currently functioning as designed. The team has stated that it's required that cards with secondary effects like this one now have the criteria for the secondary effects met before they can be cast. 
    No, it is not, as it can be cast with only one creature in both sides.

    If developers want that secondary objectives to be met in order to be casted, wording should be clearer than in this card.

    Also I want to say that in this way, this card is NOT a mythic at all.

    Thank you for your interest @Tombstone.
  • Tombstone
    Tombstone ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 1,208 Chairperson of the Boards
    That's an excellent point. I'll be sure to mention this to the team. Additionally, I mentioned to the team that the wording on these cards is not clear in regards to these requirements so that they could take this into consideration.  
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    Could you also suggest that, in this game, that inflexibility is more of a problem than in paper and when designing things some of them need to be loosened up slightly to make them _playable and fun_. No point rigidly sticking to something if it makes it unplayable and unfun.
    For a card with such severe drawbacks that already need to be allowed for, the targeting problems on _top_ become too much.

    I accept that it's as designed, I just ask that the design be reconsidered slightly.

    Compared to paper we have a lot more trouble making sure our opponents have creatures.
  • Tombstone
    Tombstone ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 1,208 Chairperson of the Boards
    @Kinesia While I can't promise any changes, I'd be happy to relay your feedback for consideration. 
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    Understood, thank you.
  • nerdstrap
    nerdstrap Posts: 180 Tile Toppler
    I want to bubble this back up to reiterate that the life, cards, and creatures in play, should not be requirements. Any card built like this is mostly unusable and should be changed.

    Fraying Omnipotence should cast as long as it has mana. When it is cast, the effects happen. Simple. 
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    nerdstrap said:
    I want to bubble this back up to reiterate that the life, cards, and creatures in play, should not be requirements. Any card built like this is mostly unusable and should be changed.

    Fraying Omnipotence should cast as long as it has mana. When it is cast, the effects happen. Simple. 
    +1

    If you don't want that card to be played at all, then just don't implement it at all instead of making it useless. Mythics should not be useless. This is the depala of spells. If it weren't in the set, I might have gotten a card that has a purpose.
    The title says it all - bugged as intended.
  • ManiiNames
    ManiiNames Posts: 213 Tile Toppler
    +1 as above
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Just Dropped In
    Laeuftbeidir said:
    nerdstrap said:
    I want to bubble this back up to reiterate that the life, cards, and creatures in play, should not be requirements. Any card built like this is mostly unusable and should be changed.

    Fraying Omnipotence should cast as long as it has mana. When it is cast, the effects happen. Simple. 
    +1

    If you don't want that card to be played at all, then just don't implement it at all instead of making it useless. Mythics should not be useless. This is the depala of spells. If it weren't in the set, I might have gotten a card that has a purpose.
    The title says it all - bugged as intended.


    Unfortunate if its as designed, as its a bit of a waste of space but hopefully they will consider updating/changing it.  

    Soooo... +1 again
  • nerdstrap
    nerdstrap Posts: 180 Tile Toppler
     closed and marked working as designed - gross

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