Plague Wind

2

Comments

  • IM_CARLOS
    IM_CARLOS Posts: 640 Critical Contributor
    Btw. In paper plague wind wasn't that scary at all. Should cost 18 to be even with paper. 
  • Aeroplane
    Aeroplane Posts: 314 Mover and Shaker
    edited July 2018
    Mburn7 said:
    bluemage said:
    Mburn7 said:
    bluemage said:
    Mburn7 said:
    I'm starting to think it's impossible to design a good masterpiece.
    It's not impossible. They just don't seem inclined to do it.
    What do you mean by that?  They are clearly trying.  We said that the HOU masterpieces were too powerful, so when the Ixalan ones were designed they were made to be more niche and less generally overpowered.

    If Rishadan Port or Pernicious Deed truly are underpowered, then the way to correct that issue is to correct those cards, not to print a different, obviously overpowered card. If player A whose 400 jewels got him a Rishadan Port comes up against Player B who got a Plague Wind, he's not going to be happy about that as an answer.
    I think we're misunderstanding each other.  I agree that Plague Wind seems overpowered.

    But my point is that from a design perspective, Oktagon appears to be erring on the side of too powerful with the M19 masterpieces whereas for Ixalan they seemed to be erring on the side of not powerful enough.  This is most likely a direct result of the fan base complaining that the masterpieces aren't powerful enough.  The cost definitely should be increased, but the fact that they designed it like this means it is designed purposely to be slightly too powerful instead of too weak.
    I believe it is called a "chasing" stragedy. The only difference is that Magic has a rotation of 3-4 sets. After this one we could see a drop in powerful sets then they'll build it up again. Most other games will release a slightly more powerful (x) to chase the meta. Magic is unique with a Standard theme that will remove powerful cards over time.
    An example is PAD(Puzzle Dragons) had to implement dungeon mechanics as their meta surpassed the dungeon bosses. Resolve ability- you could one shot this enemy unless you brought  its hp down below a threshhold. Absorb ability- damage over a certain amount was negated or recovered hp.
     Hopefully , as this game grows they'll have bigger challenging battles to include legacy for some end game players.
  • Enygma6
    Enygma6 Posts: 266 Mover and Shaker
    They did increase it's casting cost above that of the paper version by the same amount as they did for Summoner's Pact.  But probably not by enough.
  • rafalele
    rafalele Posts: 876 Critical Contributor
    And now some people will be able to get all cards of a set through the non dupe Pink Boosters.
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mburn7 said:
      This is most likely a direct result of the fan base complaining that the masterpieces aren't powerful enough. 

    I agree 100% here.


    On a different note, (not related to @Mburn7 comment)  Comparing it to river's rebuke to Plague Wind is like comparing Omniscience to Swarm intelligence.  MPs are not available for everyone and many will never get this card. Omniscience is powerful but I rarely if ever face it, even when it first came out. When I did face it, I sometimes had trouble defeating the combo but more times than not I was able to defeat the build. Is it strong? heck yeah it is. But did it create an issue where Oktagon needed to come in a change it because it was so dominating? no. I don't think so. By dominating I mean the over all meta. Rivers rebuke on the other hand saw far more play and was far more readily accessible to the player base thusly deeply affected the meta of the game. Plague Wind will likely be the same way. While strong, this card's rarity makes it more difficult to obtain. While yes it will stink to high heaven facing it, I don't think it is anywhere near meta changing.

    that said, we do this every. single. time.

    requesting nerfs before a set is released. Let's give it a go before we end up with another Gilded incident.


  • HarryMason
    HarryMason Posts: 136 Tile Toppler
    Why does this happen every set? In this game, this card is slightly better than vona's hunger. For two steps up in rarity, it's fine. It's just a removal spell . People run an obscene amount of removal to begin with. If you're worried ,play more creatures. I don't really think this is the end of days
  • DumasAG
    DumasAG Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    Purely because I don't want them to go the other direction and start making **** MPs again (I hate you, choke/vial), I'm willing to wait and see how this plays out. Maybe it won't be as prevalent as everyone fears, or maybe it just won't be as big a deal because the format will be faster than expected, or maybe an actual counterspell will be introduced now that they're messing around with flash.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    edited July 2018
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  • Bil
    Bil Posts: 831 Critical Contributor
    edited July 2018
    HarryMason said:
    Why does this happen every set? In this game, this card is slightly better than vona's hunger. For two steps up in rarity, it's fine. It's just a removal spell . People run an obscene amount of removal to begin with. If you're worried ,play more creatures. I don't really think this is the end of days
       It's not really slightly better ... Vona requires to get ascend before hitting 2 creatures. Then there is this damage effect ... It looks a bit too punishing for tokens considering the card would already be extremely powerful as a sideboard for 10 mana.

      Make it powerful (no counterpart) ... yes, very powerful (ridiculous mana cost) ... Well, why not ... But don't add on top of it something that has nothing to do with the original card just to make it worse.

      The overall issue isn't about this card in particular, it's the abysmal disparity beetween cards that are converted to PQ.
      Today we have a plague wind on steroids because of an added effect, yesterday we had phyrexian scriptures made worthless because of an added effect.
       There should be some kind of review in order to avoid such a power diference in the conversion process.
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluemage said:
    Gunmix25 said:

    Let's give it a go before we end up with another Gilded incident. 
    The difficulty with creating overpowered masterpieces like this is that players will almost never encounter them in the wild. Which is great, from one point of view, because it means that it won't be regularly hosing players who don't have the tools to adequately react against it; but does create a largely invisible pay-to-win class at the top of the game who win their games far more easily than other players.

    Awhile back, @Brigby made a comment regarding how Masterpieces were rated. it wasn't by how powerful the card was, but how unique and different the cards effects were (hence why some are just meh... cool effect but not very strategic *cough* rishadan port *cough*)

    I disagree with you regarding the pay to win. I admit that I am considered what players would call a whale but that has done absolutely nothing for me in regards to gathering my dirty little non-wombat paws around a collective of Masterpieces. Jewels are jewels and I earn them events like everyone else. The special limited purchase packs don't give diddly squat in the way of jewels. One could by theory do so but at the cost of hundreds of dollars. If someone is so inclined to do so I have no qualms about that but I can say in confidence that such players are extremely rare and very small invisible pay-to-win class at the top of  their game. What I believe you are actually referring to are the platinum players who have a substantial amount of access to jewels than the Gold, Silver and Bronze levels. Also you have a fair number of platinum players in the top coalitions and they in turn receive a substantially higher amount of jewels on average over other players.

    This advantage isn't pay-to-win but more of a disadvantage of poor rewards and access per level vs what platinum get. As a platinum player I grind heavily to earn my jewels via events and am able to pull in an average 250 to 300 a week, but any advantage I may have is in the exclusives that I buy or the PW I buy early. But those exclusive packs  do not grant me access to MP cards any more than any other player. Just more orbs, crystals and an itty bitty push in jewels and a brand spanking new mythic or PW. That is about it. I have about the same odds of getting a MP as anyone else, only difference is my rank as a platinum player allows me more chances to try and get one... not my money.

    bluemage said:

    The circumstance around Gilded Lotus were a little different as it was a premium card for cash.

    Sorry, I think you misunderstood me, I was referring to the fact that players were constantly stating how powerful this card was and that it was way undercosted for its power. Some even stated it was OP. This caught the attention of Oktagon and they made a bad decision based on the player comments about it being OP and nerfed it. The comments in here are not much different in regards to Plague Wind and I for one would like Plague Wind to be left alone as is... even if I never get it. Players talk all the time about how something should be play tested before being released... Methinks we should follow our own words and give the card a shot before we start asking for a nerf.
  • Unknown
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  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluemage said:
    Gunmix25 said:

    I disagree with you regarding the pay to win. I admit that I am considered what players would call a whale but that has done absolutely nothing for me in regards to gathering my dirty little non-wombat paws around a collective of Masterpieces. 

    We're under a new regime now... I got myself some guaranteed masterpieces in this set by maxing out on mythics in certain Elite packs. I'll be interested to see if I have enough time to gather the resources to do it again by the time M19 drops out of the Elite packs when the next set is released.
    I realize the change affects the way we can get cards. That still doesn't mean pay-to-win. What you're doing is really no less different than anyone else. You can buy all the PP you want... that doesn't earn you jewels. Just orbs.

     I've only 3 mythics plus one exclusive left of DOM. I have every thing else. I could go after those few MPs that I don't have... but I'm not.  Core is a better bang for the buck. 

    For the record,  I never buy crystals out right for PP.  I save mine.  Only packs I buy are the ones with exclusives or PW. Nothing else
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    edited July 2018
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  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluemage said:
    You can buy jewels for cash, though.

    Also, being in the top 5 of certain events nets you 300j, a hell of a lot more than most of the rest of the field. When we increase the number of broken cards in a set, we increase the number of broken cards that those players at the top of the game have, and they use that to retain their position. Looping Naru can breeze through an awful lot of the objectives we've had to play in the last few weeks, for example.
    You can't really buy jewels for cash, they just come with a lot of the other offers.  I don't think its unlimited (although I could be wrong, I don't really spend money on games).

    Also, Naru doesn't loop anymore, at least not without a masterpiece (Living Death)

    And this type of argument is the reason we don't get mythic prizes anymore.  I don't understand why you feel like success should not be rewarded.  Do you know how hard it is to get top 5 in a Hour of Devastation or similar event?  How much time you need to spend deckbuilding and sideboarding to win?  If you have even 1 loss or even just 1 or 2 missed objectives you can fall all the way out of the top 25.  The pressure each match is immense.  If you can pull it off, you deserve the reward.  Without that, why am I even trying?
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  • Tilwin90
    Tilwin90 Posts: 662 Critical Contributor
    You think people reaching the top effortlessly stay there? You need to work your butt to maintain your position and reaching top in difficult PVP events is no easy feat. It's easier to whine and complain than work your tush to get there.

    As for who gets what, why not play consistently, plan your jewel and crystals purposes and see how it's impossible to get shiny toys too? I think you are just upset now you didn't just get lucky to get a specific shiny toy (I'm betting it's a masterpiece) either and now are just going for the "evil elites". 

    Done ranting... Yes, the card needs to be more expensive. 


  • Blazer
    Blazer Posts: 84 Match Maker
    Naru does still loop with HUF and Karn's temporal sundering but it takes input from the user, but I think we will need to play test these things as I'm sure there will be more "broken" combos. I believe someone called for Etali and Path of Discovery to be nerfed before the set even came out and those cards have not "broke" the game. Let's just take a deep breath and wait for later today to complain about the "broken" stuff once we get our hands on them, oh and most of the cards wont do what they actually state so who knows what funky stuff will be uncovered.    

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