Gambit and the 5* Rebalance

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ViralCore
ViralCore Posts: 162 Tile Toppler
in MPQ General Discussion
Gambit's upcoming rebalance barely addresses his problems so he's likely to remain a top tier character; which also means that the majority of the other 5* characters remain unusable.  It's time to give us our rosters back, buff the following useless characters:

- Arc Angel
- Banner
- Black Widow
- Captain America - First Avenger
- Captain America - Infinity War
- Doc Ock
- Ghost Rider
- Green Goblin
- Jean Grey
- Iron Man - Mark XLVI
- Old Man Logan
- Silver Surfer
- Spiderman - Back in Black
- Starlord
- Wasp

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Comments

  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
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    Gambit won't be bad, and he'll probably still be good.

    But he'll be in line with most of the other good characters, he'll be more in the spiderman,, daredevil, ghostrider hawkeye good range.

    Him not being able to overwrite count down tiles is HUGE, also his red damage being halved is also big. His ap gen being a repeater than can be matched and on a two turn count down slows him.


    He's no Thor, JJ or okoye though.



    Alot of the characters you listed do need buffs, but its not because of gambit... its because they are just not good for 5's.
  • Jonny1Punch
    Jonny1Punch Posts: 434 Mover and Shaker
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    I totally agree with Viral. The new updated “nerf to the nerf “barely touched his core problems. Extremely disappointing. We better see some massive reworks and buffs next season or a massive exodus of players/spenders will leave the game.

    Time to do some major quality of life upgrades to most older classic bargain bin 5*. Buff health, match damage, increase power output with lowered AP costs for starters.
  • Jonny1Punch
    Jonny1Punch Posts: 434 Mover and Shaker
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    My thoughts from the new gambit rebalance thread appropriate here as well:

    This is absolutely ridiculous to see such an OP & broken character receive such pampering with a kid-gloves nerf. You 1st nerfed him with a buff..... then gave him a long overdue nerf that we wanted ..... only to nerf his nerf with another buff before it even went live? Increased his health, more charged tiles for more broken gambolt synergy and a huge upgrade to purple damage. Pure garbage & bad for the health of the game overall not just the 5* tier.

    Meanwhile all the barely viable bargain bin classic 5* receive no quality of life upgrades, buffs or long overdue maintenance.

    okoye starting health at 450 is about 60,000. Phoenix starting health is 42,000 at 450 and okoye has an amazing power set with disgusting broken gameplay with Thor AND nearly 200% increases in base match damage over Phoenix in one of her primaries? This is beyond power creep this is sloppy game design, development and poor managing of the games highest tier.

    Yet OML was absolutely gutted and killed with the biggest overnerf NO ONE ASKED FOR..... and we got horrible compensation with 2:1 “ no more guns “ tokens after spending tons of time and money chasing him.... but gambit is treated like royalty? Shame on you D3 and Devs. Incredibly weak & insulting. You gonna buff all the rest of the 5* tiers health as well so they can “ survive longer fights “ too? Brigby you do a decent job here and not directing this all at you but come on..... how blind is the character Dev team who made gambit and now is buffing the nerf? 
  • ViralCore
    ViralCore Posts: 162 Tile Toppler
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    thedarkphoenix said:
    Gambit won't be bad, and he'll probably still be good.

    But he'll be in line with most of the other good characters, he'll be more in the spiderman,, daredevil, ghostrider hawkeye good range.

    Him not being able to overwrite count down tiles is HUGE, also his red damage being halved is also big. His ap gen being a repeater than can be matched and on a two turn count down slows him.


    He's no Thor, JJ or okoye though.



    Alot of the characters you listed do need buffs, but its not because of gambit... its because they are just not good for 5's.
    He will no longer be in a class of his own, but he's still as good as the 3 you mentioned.  His red may have been weakened, but he still shakes board, has a nuke power, gains 6 free ap every other turn (instead of 4), overwrites most special tiles, and now has more life.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Well gambit no longer overwrite the repeaters and countdowns that a lot of your listed characters use. So that's barely like a buff to all them.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,757 Chairperson of the Boards
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    PvP will now become how do I keep 1/2 health Thor alive.  What will also happen is 4* PVP will open up the door to more 5*.  On my roster I can use JJ, GR, AA all to tank for 5Thor and I should champion Okoye when the next 5* is released (special hoarding problems).  That would give me 4 different 5Thor combos to use in PVP and all will be good.  Now let’s look st 4* PVP if miles morales, Vulture, or spidergwen are essential Peter Parker becomes extremely viable.  If a 4* stun is available DD comes on the scene.  If switch is essential maybe Phoenix gets some run.  There are a lot of combinations that can run with 4* PVP.  I personally will also run Starlord with R&G or just to take some damage for Thor.  He actually works well with Gambit since he can give charge tiles.

    overall Gambit will not be nearly as good and will get passed in the meta.  From the OP list Banner, Wasp, BSSM could use some love to be better, but the rest are solid and mid tier.
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
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    ViralCore said:
    thedarkphoenix said:
    Gambit won't be bad, and he'll probably still be good.

    But he'll be in line with most of the other good characters, he'll be more in the spiderman,, daredevil, ghostrider hawkeye good range.

    Him not being able to overwrite count down tiles is HUGE, also his red damage being halved is also big. His ap gen being a repeater than can be matched and on a two turn count down slows him.


    He's no Thor, JJ or okoye though.



    Alot of the characters you listed do need buffs, but its not because of gambit... its because they are just not good for 5's.
    He will no longer be in a class of his own, but he's still as good as the 3 you mentioned.  His red may have been weakened, but he still shakes board, has a nuke power, gains 6 free ap every other turn (instead of 4), overwrites most special tiles, and now has more life.
    He's potentially as good. His Ap gen being interruptible, his fastest nuke having its damage cut in half just about, while the cost increased and his purple only overwriting strike, attack and defense tiles is a huge knock down and out of top tier.

    Now what he can do well is really steam roll if the match lingers on with purple and he has other damage dealers outside of red and purple on his team.

    But I mean alot of characters can kind of do that already, like your ghost rider and hawkeyes etc etc... Both who ironically generate AP.


    Him not having the AP burn is being HIGHLY overlooked and I still feel like if he didn't every get that in the 1st place he wouldn't even be as hated as he is now. That was a huge buff for him...but people really hated his "free ap gen"
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,546 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Gambit got crushed. The idea he wasn't is absurd. 

    The fact that you consider that many 5* tier characters useless suggests to me it would be just as easy if not easier to nerf the non-useless ones than buff all of your list. Be careful what you wish for when you demand a rebalance. 
  • LifeofAgony
    LifeofAgony Posts: 690 Critical Contributor
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    Gambit is still broken.  The AP drain removal should haven’t ever been a thing since it was a buff on gambit 1.0 > 2.0.  Gambit 4.0 (we never got to play 3.0) still has the ability to create a whole mess of ap for nothing.  And yes, while it can get wiped away, it’ll always be back every turn and eventually, will land in a spot you can’t touch.  

    It’s nice red isn’t as stupidly OP, but it’s still a good power, and raising cost by 1 doesn’t really do a damn thing to mitigate the spammy-ness.

    Purple got tweaked to not target quite so many types of tiles, but got a huge increase in damage output (which cannot be overwritten so good luck if enemy gambit casts purple first).  

    And as if his health wasn’t already in the decent range, now he’s going to have more.
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    edited July 2018
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    moving it to 8 means that if for some reason he does get to 30 (or close to it) red ap on top of it doing half the damage it use to he's only able to fire off the power three times now.

    That means, he fires it once for "no damage" then again for the new damage amount and then once again which finally adds up to about what 14 ap of damage would be doing currently. That's 24 ap for about 16k damage....



    To put that in perspective Ghost rider does 20k plus for 10ap.


  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2018
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    What kind of buffs are you specifically looking for those characters? Overhaul of abilities? Increased match damage? Increased power damage per ap?

    I think the one that needs a buff are Wasp and Banner. Most of the characters that you listed are support/defensive characters or characters that require strategic play, compared to Gambit's straightforward offensive style. I take it that you want to buff them into offensive characters. If that's the case, the game would be pretty much boring. It's just hack and slash.
  • Rod5
    Rod5 Posts: 585 Critical Contributor
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    HoundofShadow said:
    What kind of buffs are you specifically looking for those characters? Overhaul of abilities? Increased match damage? Increased power damage per ap?

    I think the one that needs a buff are Wasp and Banner. Most of the characters that you listed are support/defensive characters or characters that require strategic play, compared to Gambit's straightforward offensive style. I take it that you want to buff them into offensive characters. If that's the case, the game would be pretty much boring. It's just hack and slash.
    You take it wrong, so you can throw away that straw-man.

    What we want there to be is some sort of equivalence. Even if it were only match damage, the difference between older characters and newer characters is stark.

    Powers-wise, again just some sort of equivalence. There are some powers that need a tweak to make them relevant/usable, Banner amongst them. But here it is mostly about getting the same sort of return for their offensive powers.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2018
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    What kind of return for their offensive power? Return as in similar power damage/ap?

    It would be much clearer if there are examples.
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,710 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2018
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    No problem for me, he was too powerful, they announced a nerf and most people seemed to agree it was ott. Good on them for listening.

    I would still rather there was better compensation when they made the mistake not the user base and I’d rather all they did was remove his over write and ap destruction but it has been said enough times and ignored so I’m sure they have their reasons.

    Im just glad they are prepared to listen to feedback and tweak before destroying a player so many people wanted. (not me I couldn’t care less about him as a character)

    Yeah we would all like them to make older classics more relevant but it doesn’t make money. I’d rather they offered no compensation but committed to tweaking the 5* tier continuously.
  • babinro
    babinro Posts: 771 Critical Contributor
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    1)  Nerfing a 5* character while keeping them viable in top tier play is a GOOD thing.
    Lets not make light of how many hundreds (or thousands) of dollars people spent to get Gambit. 

    2) Top tier does NOT mean overpowered.
    Removing Gambits AP steal and ability to cancel out CD tiles eliminated a lot of viable options to run against him.  Gambit will still be strong post nerf but your roster options to find success in PvP is going to increase considerably.  This is especially true if you opt to go for 75 wins system above the 1200 points system since speed in matches is less of a factor with the wins system.

    3)  I 100% whole heatedly agree with the character buffs statement.
    I went into great detail about this on https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/818530/#Comment_818530 post and it was positively received.  Admittedly I left out bearded Cap and Wasp from the list and those two (especially wasp who is considered the worst 5* in the game) need some additional attention as well.

  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I think a way to generate revenue would be to buff 3-5* at a time and have a special store for them.  With that people would spend their CPs to get them.  I know I wouldn’t take a hard look at this.  Having a PHX at 483, if I could have a chance to get her to 500 I would if her numbers would turn out good enough to deal with some of the current 5*.  
  • ViralCore
    ViralCore Posts: 162 Tile Toppler
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    HoundofShadow said:
    What kind of buffs are you specifically looking for those characters? Overhaul of abilities? Increased match damage? Increased power damage per ap?

    I think the one that needs a buff are Wasp and Banner. Most of the characters that you listed are support/defensive characters or characters that require strategic play, compared to Gambit's straightforward offensive style. I take it that you want to buff them into offensive characters. If that's the case, the game would be pretty much boring. It's just hack and slash.

    Start off with match damage and increased damage per ap for all of them. Characters like Wasp, Banner, Starlord, and Ock, need their abilities rethought. Tweak them if they get over buffed, just like they did with Gambit.
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
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    thedarkphoenix said:
    moving it to 8 means that if for some reason he does get to 30 (or close to it) red ap on top of it doing half the damage it use to he's only able to fire off the power three times now.

    That means, he fires it once for "no damage" then again for the new damage amount and then once again which finally adds up to about what 14 ap of damage would be doing currently. That's 24 ap for about 16k damage....



    To put that in perspective Ghost rider does 20k plus for 10ap.



    Which just means 3/5/5 is the way to go. Earn that purple! Enemy Gambit can't get rid of them any more!

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