I can't do this anymore

Machine

Laeuftbeidir said:

I'd love to contribute to such a list. If the devs actually would ask for help - or accept the offered help - I know several people who'd jump in immediately.

I think @Machine was referring to card texts only, those should have no effect on the way a card works and are pure "cosmetical".

Although I like @brigby s explanations for being interesting I don't see how this situation could ever improve with the focus on adding new sets (that's the focus we know about. Maybe they're actually trying to fix the game without telling us?) . Bugs will get worse and more complex with every release. I understand how several bugs won't get fixed, since they might be hard to track and occur not that often (like the overload cascade wrong board side effect), but I don't understand how totally simple and easy to track bugs get ignored for multiple months. It's one thing when QA regulary fails to find a bug, but another thing to ignore reported bugs.

BTW,

The bug subforum is a total disaster and could really need a redesign to account for the sheer amount of bugs reported.

That's exactly what I meant. When checking the cards for their Legendary status, they could have made a list of cards that needed retexting (is that even a word??). So, in that sense I agree with you @Tilwin90. That could have been fixed in a later stage.

babar3355

Well, if you can't fix the bugs then just change the text to reflect what the card actually does.  Then it's not a bug... it's a feature!

Mburn7

babar3355 said:

Well, if you can't fix the bugs then just change the text to reflect what the card actually does.  Then it's not a bug... it's a feature!

Ah, the old Bethesda approach.  It's not a bug if you just tell everyone its intentional!

[Deleted User]

OMG thank you for this post. For the longest time i have wanted a post like this or to post myself but didnt want to waste any more time related to this game, considering the amount of time i already spend on this game. 

I am okay with less newer content and more focus on fixing bugs.

The way that i see things, as more new sets come out and new mechanics are introduced, more and more bugs will come into existence - new bugs, old bugs, and new-old combo bugs. Therefore, as more time passes without addressing the root cause of the problem, it will become impossible to fix simple bugs as it no longer is limited to 1 or 2 card interactions; but rather, they will be linked to a multitude of card-card interactions. This means changing one card will affect another card, will affect another card... etc. Then once it hits peak capacity one of two things will occur - people will quit or the game will have to shut down. Currently, i don't have much money, but even with my limited amount of money, it is difficult for me to justify investing into something that will shatter that glass in the future. Perhaos you are following "pill logic". Got a problem? Take a pill! Don't bother fixing the real problem so that you don't have to take the pill cause big pharma needs money money money. 

Therefore, its hard work but go through every individual card and code/change their text properly/appropriately. It might be wiser to start with older cards, as these cards are probably coded oddly/incorrectly to begin with from the other developer and maybe are causing conflicts. Also older card fixes may increase compatibility with future fixes as you already adjusted to meet current/future standards and not hiberium-age standards. You can take all the shortcuts you want by changing the paint instead of addressing the artists but this only applies if all your artists are similar/normal to begin with. Currently youve got artists with a wide array psychological problems that don't want to use the same color paint it seems.

Hard work pays. Life wasn't suppose to be easy. The norm is that it is hard and you have to work hard to achieve your life goals. Its the human mind that believes the norm is for things to be easy - but that's an evolutionary thing, as we are programmed to seek comfort and ease in order to survive and not die. 

Also, show me that you actually love this game. I feel if you love this game, these fixes would have already been handled. But there appears to be a huge disconnect between your "love" for this game and what is happening/what i am experiencing. Its like you raised a kid and then decided its **** so you stopped caring for it and abandoned it, aside from giving it some food to eat and clothes to wear. Why? The game has problems but fixes take too long. Other games, hotfix/balance that right away. Please contact dire wolf digital about their eternals trading card game and how they do it. Because they've got a TON of unique cards with lots of interaction yet their meta is fairly balanced and there aren't any non-functioning things or i barely notice them. Why? They hotfix that so fast. In fact, they released a new set recently and the hotfixed the few bugs they had shortly there afterwards. Then they track the meta and provide balances as necessary. P.s. did you know they are the most rewarding game out there? And dont require me to dump hours of my life unless i want to? It doesn't feel like slavery! Gasp*

Rhasget

jimpark said:

OMG thank you for this post.
-snip-
 P.s. did you know they are the most rewarding game out there? And dont require me to dump hours of my life unless i want to? It doesnt feel like slavery! Gasp*

Why do you play this game at all? Calling it slavery when it's f2p and no strings attached  sounds like very strong words against it.

On topic:

There are too many cards and interactions not functioning properly for my taste. I wouldn't mind a longer delay between sets if it meant that fewer bugs appeared. It's frustrating to put time in building a deck and then see it dysfunctional because it won't interact with other cards as it should.

[Deleted User]

Rhasget said:

jimpark said:

OMG thank you for this post.
-snip-
 P.s. did you know they are the most rewarding game out there? And dont require me to dump hours of my life unless i want to? It doesnt feel like slavery! Gasp*

Why do you play this game at all? Calling it slavery when it's f2p and no strings attached  sounds like very strong words against it.

On topic:

There are too many cards and interactions not functioning properly for my taste. I wouldn't mind a longer delay between sets if it meant that fewer bugs appeared. It's frustrating to put time in building a deck and then see it dysfunctional because it won't interact with other cards as it should.

That is a very good question. Unfortunately, it is a question I am asking myself more and more these days. And as time passes, I am getting closer and closer to the possibility of quitting the game... which actually makes me very, very sad. I am hopeful and at the same time barely hanging on it feels like. The worst part is that I know for a fact that if I were to invest this time in a real-world skill or hobby, it would be more useful to say the least.

But, here is why I haven't quit and still play: There are many positive aspects of this game I appreciate; one of them being what you mentioned - f2p. Additionally, the game is creative in its approach of gaining mana with its match-3 system. But, the biggest element is the history I have with the original, paper MTG game. In other words, I have a deep-rooted love for this game for nostalgic reasons and, in all honesty, will most likely make it very difficult for me to quit. I imagine that many of the longer-term players can relate to this (Now, I could go into more detail and I am sure there are more positive aspects, especially recently; but, for now I will leave it at that).

Currently, I am disgruntled with the game and I honestly don't want to be! So yes, my comment was far more negative than positive. And I hope you don't misunderstand that I do like this game and deep down at heart I want it to succeed. But, did I mention I am disgruntled?

Perhaps slavery was a little harsh but for lack of a better word let me explain why I chose it at the time. The slavery portion was in relation to the time spent on this game. Now, we all know that f2p means you are going to have to grind. Okay, that is fine. The grind isn't a problem when you have the freedom to do it as you please without perceived consequences (or more specifically, self-perceived consequences). For instance, maybe one day I feel like grinding out 3 hours and the next two days only 30 minutes. We can all agree, this is reasonable since I decided. However, we all know that we do not have such freedom with the whole event start and end times, initial charges, and refresh timers, max node charges... Have you ever had your panties in a bunch cause you're driving in heavy traffic but you only have 30 minutes before you lose an entire round of charges on nodes cause you had real life things happen? Well, you get my point. Don't get me wrong, things have gotten much, much better from when I first started during RotGP with 4 hour timers (and I SUPER DUPER appreciate it, seriously, no joke. The caps are there because I want everyone to know my gratitude for refresh timer changes); but, now lets play devil's advocate, I ask you, has it really gotten better? Well, have you ever thought the system to begin with was so atrociously bad that any small change would feel like a godsend? Then when you factor this together with the lack of other match-3 card games that have an MTG license, how helpless we are as we do not really decide the changes in this game, and that our love for this game is so strong that we are willing to justify/rationalize all its faults... well here we are... We are slaves to the schedule bestowed upon us; otherwise, there are self-perceived consequences (significantly lower rewards, which compounds the slavery-esque issue; explained further below) associated. And we all know, there have been pushes for getting all charges at once and other great ideas suggested, etc, etc; which... wouldn't this be the ideal? The freedom to play my games within the duration of an event? And even if this was not the ideal, why is it that, RTO still has 3 max charges/games per node as opposed to 5 or even 6?

Now, in addition to this, there is an entire argument that can be made about the amount of time it takes to play games. Luckily things are headed in the right direction as we can see with AWR and the A Journey Through History events. But looking at RTO, playing 1 round of games (5 games; 1 game per node) takes roughly 10 minutes +/- 5 minutes. Of course, there are anomalies like 30+ minute games (and dare I ask why this problem exists? balancing issues, or the lack thereof). Anyhow, I averaged around 45 minutes to an hour per round (without deckbuilding, add in deckbuilding like new events, you are going to have to add at least 30 minutes to well over an hour per node). Now remember this was for me, imagine others with a bad collection or your starting days, yeah, you were reinforcing your 2/2 vanilla creature, chipping away at that 100+ life PW, while your army gets decimated every other turn. But usually, those games probably ended faster cause you got owned. Now, lets talk about events like Avacyn's Madness or BoFT... 5 nodes, high-life bosses... I am sure you get the point.

Now, lets talk about self-perceived consequences. This is probably the most complex aspect, as it is self-perceived. We all know the stakes are high in the coalition events, with very stark and steep reward differences between rank brackets. These high rewards causes one to create the illusion that the reward value is so high and huge that you just cannot afford to miss out. Not doing a day of TG is okay, its only 15 mana crystals; but, when you have a goldmine of mana gems and mana crystals - its hard to decline. And this is further compounded by how the economy in the game revolves. Everything is expensive and difficult to get (Some of you guys may not know but I recently moved to Platinum and orb accumulation has gone up quite a bit; but, when I was in Gold without TotP well being able to craft 1 mythic was like a miracle); but, if you don't compete you will become irrelevant and non-competitive. Why? People are already saving mana gems and crystals for the new set so that when it comes out; well, they are going to be at an advantage. So if you want to be current, you got to keep on going. Of course, this varies by individual, but maybe someone wants to get all the mythics before the next rotation? maybe they want a full collection? maybe they want that one mythic everyone has and is so OP (looking at you, Etali and dino friends). Then add in the coalition aspect. You lose one game/objective, you lose top rewards - it is vicious. But once you lose you cant just quit, why? you've got a team! You were eager for the prize, you joined thinking you could do it, then BAM SWW to the face with random freeze from buggy disable cards... but you have to keep chugging on... If it was individual, you could brush it off and be like "okay now my rewards are lame. Lets just do progression"; but, you cant. To reference a different game, they have a ranked ladder system that refreshes every month, There are different tiers that you move up to and at the end of the month you get the prize associated with that tier. But the tier rewards are incremental and very balanced dependent upon the amount of effort I put in. If I want to grind out hundreds of games to get the top tier, I have the option to do so but I also have the option to stop at any tier I feel is adequate and get the rewards that match my effort. It feels relaxed. Unlike with the events in this game, where unfortunately, it always feels like all or nothing/progression. Additionally for every win, there is a small reward associated so it doesn't all feel like it was for nothing. Then they have a separate daily reward after your first win, which is minimal investment for a decent reward. And then they have other modes and events, etc. But everything pays out based on effort/time invested; it doesn't feel like I have invested a good few hours playing games and I got minimal rewards (again, I understand things have gotten so much better but you get the drift and I only hope that D3Go starts looking at and researching other games in the TCG market to possibly provide new innovative things to implement or change). I really didn't want to reference another game but felt it was the only way to get the point across in a meaningful way; so I apologize in advance about that. Anyhow, then add in the I've already invested x amount of time, can't back down now perspective. Its harder for people to let go of things they have invested time/money into, i.e. take bad significant other relationships.. sometimes its hard to quit when you've already invested in this person for x amount of time. The same is true for other things. That career path you invested in college but don't love doing, etc, etc. And there's much more to it, but it is far too hard to explain and I should stop invested so much time on this comment..

Then you've got bugs... we are a slave to bugs. We are at the mercy of them being fixed and cards being balanced.

Anyhow, I hope that helps answer your question. And I hope that I did not offend anyone with either this comment or the previous one. The other comment was more of a emotionally charged; sick of it all; please make things better; desperate plea; filled with skepticism, resentment, and sadness; topped off with a hint of hope. I probably went about it the wrong way. But throughout your life, have you noticed that making a big deal and shouting and screaming at customer service gets you more than being calm, reasonable, and polite sometimes? Well, it makes me sad to say it does. I know this because I worked for customer retention once upon a time...

Brigby

*Please keep all comments on the general topic of bugs being present in the game, and how the development team is addressing it.

If you wish to discuss a specific bug, then please start or continue a relevant discussion thread in the Bugs & Technical Issues section of the forum.

Thank you!

__Adam

I recently pulled "Thran temporal gateway" and thought "let's make a historic deck" and literally over half of it is broken in some way.  This isn't some edge case interaction between esoteric cards from yesteryear; this is the 'obvious' builds of the current block!

Thran doesn't work with half the 'historic' cards in my deck, they just get NO mana. Josu gets his zombie leader even with way less black gems than advertised (yay?). Flashed critters don't actually die when they reinforce. Dreadwater  just activates, traps be damned. Nyx is so erratic I've forgotten what I actually expect it to do. But hey, at least Etali mostly works!

*I WANT TO SUPPORT THIS GAME.* But when > half your cards don't work, and there's almost nothing to play them in if they did, I'd feel like a moron if I reopened my wallet!

bk1234

__Adam said:

I recently pulled "Thran temporal gateway" and thought "let's make a historic deck" and literally over half of it is broken in some way.  This isn't some edge case interaction between esoteric cards from yesteryear; this is the 'obvious' builds of the current block!

Thran doesn't work with half the 'historic' cards in my deck, they just get NO mana. Josu gets his zombie leader even with way less black gems than advertised (yay?). Flashed critters don't actually die when they reinforce. Dreadwater  just activates, traps be damned. Nyx is so erratic I've forgotten what I actually expect it to do. But hey, at least Etali mostly works!

*I WANT TO SUPPORT THIS GAME.* But when > half your cards don't work, and there's almost nothing to play them in if they did, I'd feel like a moron if I reopened my wallet!

This is news to me. I've had Thran since the first week and as far as I know it only doesn't work with spells. I play it in at least 5 decks and use it every day in TG in one of those decks. Most interactions don't work with historic spells. It's a known issue. Please make sure you add to the bug report if this was the problem or submit a new one on the Bugs & Technical Issues subforum @__Adam

khurram

Thran doesn't fill up legendary spells. That's a bug with historic spells though, I think. Jhoira and Replicator also don't treat those spells as historic.

wereotter

khurram said:

Thran doesn't fill up legendary spells. That's a bug with historic spells though, I think. Jhoira and Replicator also don't treat those spells as historic.

Raff Capashen definitely doesn't treat them as historic. I saw this yesterday when he didn't reduce the cost of Urza's Ruinous Blast like he should have.

Brakkis

Another thing...

Fix all of blasted crashes and errors that cost us matches or, for the love of all that is good, put a blasted Resume feature in this **** game. I am so damn tired of an error here and oh look another freeze there costing me, and my coalition, points in events because the game doesn't have one of the most basic **** features.

Stormcrow

Up front, I will admit that I'm not a professional coder. I've dabbled in a little bit of coding as a hobby but not nearly as much as I've dabbled in paper Magic as a hobby. And the thing that's always frustrated me about this game's obvious case of spaghetti code is that it's based on M:tG. I mean jeez. Most developers of app games do not have a third party which has already decided how every weird edge-case interaction between two different cards should be handled. Most developers of app games are not basically trying to replicate a turn structure that has already been rules-lawyered out in incredible detail. The actual pen-and-paper rules of Magic: The Gathering are so absurdly detailed and exhaustively "bug-tested" that this game should be easier to code than basically anything else. I mean, every time you run into a weird interaction between two cards, you don't have to decide, "How are we gonna handle this?", the vast majority of the time you can literally just look it up. Really basic questions that come up when you're coding a game like this - stuff like "How often should the game check the player's life total to determine if the match is over?" - could have literally had their answers just looked up in a paper M:tG rulebook.

I place a lot of the blame for this on Hibernum, who could've built the underlying engine of the game to play better with the rules of Magic that they would be translating over. Oktagon obviously inherited a mess, and it was clear to me right from some of those early interviews that their philosophy of developing this game would be basically what I advocate here - to let paper Magic do all the heavy lifting in terms of deciding how things should work - and they've made some progress on getting the game in a better state to do that (differentiating supports by artifact/equipment/enchantment/aura for example). But this many months on they are clearly still having issues dealing with Hibernum's mess of code. I'm just not sure what the solution to that is, really.

That's to say nothing of the game's long-running connection issues, lag issues, and general instability. Or the game's battery-draining tendencies. Which also can be laid at Hibernum's feet I think. It wasn't anything like a polished piece of software Oktagon got, and I do sympathize with that, I really do. But they came in with great ambitious plans to clean up that codebase and now...Well, especially lately, it sorta feels like, having found out how much worse the game's codebase actually is than they had at first imagined, Oktagon's sort of thrown in the towel and given up on ever making something better out of it. Which is where I stop sympathizing with them.