Progression suggestion: Overhaul DDQ

24

Comments

  • vinniebabe22
    vinniebabe22 Posts: 13 Just Dropped In
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    A daily 4* is probably a bit much, 
    I'm not sure it is, lately we have been getting 1 or 2 new characters a month.... an once they are out of that Current LT group you can forget about em. When we the last time you saw a Silver Surfer token? For example I've never even seen a 5* Bruce Banner one
    I know they offer a chance to win an additional cover and you can define that but I think it still needs to be reviewed. Moving from 3* to 4* and beyond is a tedious grind that even throwing money at doesn't guarantee you any measure of success.
  • MadScientist
    MadScientist Posts: 317 Mover and Shaker
    What about a node that requires a certain support equipped? It could reward Red Iso and/or support tokens or even a rank increase of the equipped support.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    MadScientist said:
    What about a node that requires a certain support equipped? It could reward Red Iso and/or support tokens or even a rank increase of the equipped support.
    Yeah that would go over well...
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,283 Chairperson of the Boards
    Jaedenkaal said:
    MadScientist said:
    What about a node that requires a certain support equipped? It could reward Red Iso and/or support tokens or even a rank increase of the equipped support.
    Yeah that would go over well...
    I can see the thread now:

    "Days since unable to complete Level 5 Kimono Beads task: 586"
  • Erunner1201
    Erunner1201 Posts: 32 Just Dropped In
    I was thinking that DDQ can be overhauled to cover specific player tiers rather than a "one size, fits all" model.  These can be tied to shield rank and/or shield clearance level.  There can be three different modes to enter in each day such as:

    Beginner: players that qualify for scl1-3
    Intermediate: players that qualify for scl4-6
    Advanced: players that qualify for scl7 and above

    With these different modes, you can tie specific nodes to each.  For example, beginner and intermediate modes can still have the 1* and 2* nodes while advanced would not have these.  Advanced can have some sort of required 5* path that wouldn't appear in the other nodes.  The appropriate rewards can be tied in to each of these.

    I think about this everyday as I complete the DDQ nodes and wonder why I still need to be completing the 1* and 2* nodes with an advanced roster.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,456 Chairperson of the Boards
    vinniebabe22 said:
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    A daily 4* is probably a bit much, 
    I'm not sure it is, lately we have been getting 1 or 2 new characters a month.... an once they are out of that Current LT group you can forget about em. When we the last time you saw a Silver Surfer token? For example I've never even seen a 5* Bruce Banner one
    I know they offer a chance to win an additional cover and you can define that but I think it still needs to be reviewed. Moving from 3* to 4* and beyond is a tedious grind that even throwing money at doesn't guarantee you any measure of success.
    5* dilution is kind of it's own problem, and I am fairly sure neither of those two you mentioned have feeders yet, so a daily 4* wouldn't get you any closer until they do.

    Anecdotally, I did get a surfer a month or two ago, he's up to 1/0/3 just from organic classic pulls and I think a single daily reward cover. My 0/1/1 Banner definitely hears what your saying though; I know everybody hates him but I'll take covers for anybody.
  • Jexman
    Jexman Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
    I’m liking Growth Industry as a kind of DDQ adjoint for getting a 4 star but dang does it scale high for my one 5* champ roster. 
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,456 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2018
    Definitely agree with Growth Opportunity. I came out of the Ghost release with a 2/2/2 (alliance got 1 from civil war, and I got lucky in both vaults, then got 1/1/1 from progression across Gi/PVP/PVE), which I think is the best I've personally done with a character release event. I really hope this is the new normal for it with the flat 4* odds.
  • Yepyep
    Yepyep Posts: 954 Critical Contributor
    There are many good ideas in this thread and I'd like to pitch in my $.02. For context, I just champed my 35th 4* today, the lovely K4te (pretty happy about it, as she was a unicorn for me for a really long time -- thank goodness for bonus heroes...).

    (1) I think an element missing in the DDQ meta is something reflecting progression over a period of y days completing the events (beyond the counting-off-days aspect w/r/t Crash). Specifically, I think x/y days completed over the course of each gem season, say 24 of 28 days, should result in -- wait for it -- a roster spot as the reward. This would be a unique prize with a unique path to winning it and something that would benefit all players regardless of their seniority. And it wouldn't materially affect competitiveness while providing a lot of relief (particularly at the lower tiers where HPs are hard to come by).

    (2) I concur with those who think a daily 4* is not extravagant; in truth, it seems increasingly necessary with the crazy rate of toon expansion. Alternatively, a reward could be one free champ-level token for the champion of the player's choice (i.e. one level up on the champion of your choice). This would scale nicely for players of any level of seniority, and it would be quite fun to target to the toons about to pop an LT or character progression reward.

    Personally, I don't really mind the 1* and 2* events bc they don't take too long and they have resource rewards I need. But they do feel redundant -- building some incentive into getting your chores done every day would be welcome.
  • Ptahhotep
    Ptahhotep Posts: 430 Mover and Shaker
    As others have said there are a lot of good ideas in this thread. Here’s what I would do:

    • Leave DDQ as is up to the 3* cover.
    • Make the crash a daily event.
    • Link the crash to the Burrito.
    • The crash would reward a specific 4* cover.
    • The required 4* would be in the burrito and the crash would allow any 4* or lower character to be used, mirroring the way the 3* cover is rewarded.
    • The burrito would still have three required characters.
    • A new weekly 5* node to reward a legendary token, maybe a two on two battle to make it different.
    • A new node that rewards new “support points”. These would be used to buy support tokens like cp are for legendary tokens. Higher level tokens would cost more points. This node could have an affiliation based requirement.
    • Additional progression rewards, including red iso, to accompany the extra nodes.

  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2018
    Add SCLs!!

    Below are my suggestions on how to tweak the nodes and rewards but keep the existing structure with adding SCLs.  This still assumes CotT every 5 days.  Italics everytime something changed from last level.  There would also probably be some tweaks to the points rewards, but I'm too lazy to do that, you get the general idea.  If this is too generous with Taco Tokens the size of the vaults could be increase or a 3rd cycle of them could be added to compensate (though I'd rather than not of course).

    SCL 1:
    TGfTP: - 1*s Required  - Reward 100 ISO
    UtS - 1*s Required - 1 Taco Token
    TTtC - 1*s Required  - Reward 500 ISO   
    DRQ - Required 2* - 1 Taco Token
    TBE - Lowered to 2* skill level - Required 2* Cover

    BB - 1*|2*|3* - 1 CP
    CotT - 3* Character Required - 5 CP

    SCL 2:
    TGfTP: - 1*s Required  - Reward 100 ISO
    UtS - 1*s Required - 1 Taco Token
    TTtC - 2*s Required  - Reward 500 ISO   
    DRQ - Required 3* - 2 Taco Tokens
    TBE - Lowered to 2* skill level - Required 2* Cover

    BB - 1*|2*|3* - 1 CP
    CotT - 3* Character Required - 5 CP

    SCL 3:
    TGfTP: - 1*s Required  - Reward 100 ISO 
    UtS - 2*s Required - 1 Taco Token 
    TTtC - 2*s Required  - Reward 500 ISO   
    DRQ - Required 3* - 2 Taco Tokens
    TBE - 3* skill level - Required 3* Cover

    BB - 1*|2*|3* - 1 CP
    CotT - 3* Character Required - 5 CP

    SCL 4:
    TGfTP: - 2*s Required  - Reward 500 ISO 
    UtS - 2*s Required - 1 Taco Token  
    TTtC - 2*s Required  - Reward 500 ISO   
    DRQ - Required 3* - 2 Taco Tokens
    TBE - 3* skill level - Required 3* Cover

    BB - 1*|2*|3* - 1 CP
    CotT - 4* Character Required - LT

    SCL 5:
    TGfTP: - 2*s Required  - Reward 500 ISO  
    UtS - 2*s Required - 1 Taco Token  
    TTtC - 3*s Required  - Reward 1000 ISO   
    DRQ - Required 3* - 2 Taco Tokens
    TBE - 3* skill level - Required 3* Cover

    BB - 2*|3*|4* - 2 CP
    CotT - 4* Character Required - LT

    SCL 6:
    TGfTP: - 2*s Required  - Reward 500 ISO  
    UtS - 3*s Required - 2 Taco Tokens  
    TTtC - 3*s Required  - Reward 1000 ISO 
    DRQ - Required 3* - 2 Taco Tokens
    TBE - 4* skill level - Required 4* Cover

    BB - 2*|3*|4* - 2 CP
    CotT - 4* Character Required - LT

    SCL 7:
    TGfTP: - 2*s Required  - Reward 500 ISO  
    UtS - 3*s Required - 2 Taco Tokens   
    TTtC - 3*s Required  - Reward 1000 ISO 
    DRQ - Required 4* - 3 Taco Tokens
    TBE - 4* skill level - Required 4* Cover

    BB - 2*|3*|4* - 2 CP
    CotT - 4* Character Required - LT

    SCL 8:
    TGfTP: - 3*s Required - Reward 1000 ISO 
    UtS - 3*s Required - 2 Taco Tokens    
    TTtC - 4*s Required  - Reward 2000 ISO 
    DRQ - Required 4* - 3 Taco Tokens
    TBE - 4* skill level - Required 4* Cover

    BB - 2*|3*|4* - 2 CP
    CotT - 4* Character Required - LT

    SCL 9:
    TGfTP: - 3*s Required - Reward 1000 ISO  
    UtS - 4*s Required - 2 Taco Tokens  
    TTtC - 4*s Required  - Reward 2000 ISO  
    DRQ - Required 4* - 3 Taco Tokens
    TBE - 4* skill level - Required 4* Cover

    BB - 3*|4*|5* - 5 CP
    CotT - 5* Character Required - Required 5* Token (EDIT: or if this is too generous a band new token that only gives 5*s but could be any non-Latest 5*).
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,850 Chairperson of the Boards
    Roland113 said:

    I respectfully disagree here.  In my mind, there are two real aspects of playing this game competitively and one's roster is a huge part of that.  Everything that you say above is correct for the roster based aspect of competitive play.

    The second, equally important component of competitive play is timing, or rather commitment to playing at the appropriate times.  I can have the best roster in the world but if I don't schedule my time around the optimal PvE clear or the spacing of my shields then I'm never going to be competitive.  I'm ok with that.

    What pushes me is the completionist aspect of roster building.  If more 4 star covers are given to everyone, then I'm not going to gain any more on the competitive players, but will get more fulfillment as my roster will continue to progress at a pace that keeps it enjoyable for me.
    I guess I can't argue with that, but I very much doubt that you truly play non-competitively.  You don't earn any placement rewards of any kind in any event?  If you do, you are displacing other players who are, at least in theory, competing.  Even if you're not trying to place, your roster improving means you will place better and outplace others.
  • Tensuun
    Tensuun Posts: 99 Match Maker
    edited July 2018
    entrailbucket said:
    You don't earn any placement rewards of any kind in any event?  If you do, you are displacing other players who are, at least in theory, competing.  Even if you're not trying to place, your roster improving means you will place better and outplace others.

    This strikes me as kind of goalpost-moving, or at best misunderstanding the intent of what's being said. In most PVE slices, just clearing each node four times typically lets me place in the top 250ish, no matter what time I'm playing.

    However, at the time when the slice begins/ends, one or more of the following might happen to be true that day:
    - My wife is getting off work and wants a ride home
    - My wife is already off work and wants to go to bar trivia with me
    - I'm working late (or early) that day
    - I have some errands to run or chores to take care of
    - I'm sleepy and want to go to bed
    - I feel like going to the gym instead
    - I feel like playing a different video game
    - Something else, whatever

    I can generally find a time during the day to play MPQ for an hour or so and 4-clear every PVE node. I can sometimes find additional time at some other point when I can multitask and play some PVP while I also work or play on something else. Crucially, the time of day is almost always different on Tuesday than it was on Monday. As long as I play for some amount of time that day, I can probably get the four-star from progression. But unless it's for an Alliance Event, I refuse to schedule the rest of my life around a video game.

    Also, I personally tend to play in the latest Slice 1 I can get into, so it's not as competitive, but this also means that if I 4-clear each node and then completely forget to play before bedtime, I get rank 199; if I play as much as I can right before I fall asleep (which for me is "playing competitively"), I wake up to find the event has ended and I'm rank 101. Same prizes, the only difference is I didn't get very much sleep and what I did get was not very good.

    (I'm on Pacific Time, so S2 is 9 am when I'm at work, S3 is 2 pm when I'm at work, S4 is 8 PM when bar trivia starts, S5 is at 11 PM when my wife wants a ride home, S1 is at 4 am when no reasonable person is awake. S1 is thus the lowest-pressure of these.)

    More to the original point @Roland113 was making, since I've already given up on doing anything to deliberately influence my placement, most of the time the reason I'm playing the game is 'cause I just want to pretend-fight a bunch of guys with my favorite Marvel superheroes. I like working toward the chance to see how this game's representations of Squirrel Girl and Kraven the Hunter (not to be confused with others who may also be named Kraven or something that can be abbreviated to "Kraven") handle an unexpected encounter with interdimensional aliens and Ultron drones. Giving it to me outright leaves me with nothing to work toward, but doling it out suuuuper slowly or making it nigh-impossible to achieve makes me gradually lose interest. Providing information to the game's design team about which attributes do and don't make this game a better Skinner box seems like the kind of thing that will benefit both me and the design team.
  • Roland113
    Roland113 Posts: 298 Mover and Shaker
    entrailbucket said:
    I guess I can't argue with that, but I very much doubt that you truly play non-competitively.  You don't earn any placement rewards of any kind in any event?  If you do, you are displacing other players who are, at least in theory, competing.  Even if you're not trying to place, your roster improving means you will place better and outplace others.
    I am passively ranked against others that play but not actively competing for better awards with the intent of displacing others.  Others may be competing against me, but I could care less about what I get.

    Like @Tensuun said above, I'm going to opt for Bar Trivia just about any day over an optimal clear.  As such, I'm never going to get top ten placement to earn the 4star covers that I'm chasing.  I go for progression and once I get that, I'm good.  I play SCL7 just because I don't feel like playing the higher level matches because they take too long.
  • gmtosca
    gmtosca Posts: 278 Mover and Shaker
    Maybe not a daily 4* reward.  How about every 2 weeks, or a monthly event?
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,850 Chairperson of the Boards
    Top 250?  That means you're beating 750 other players, quite possibly other players who like to play and are competing, but can't do it optimally.  Your intent is irrelevant, the irrefutable fact is that your play is taking rewards away from them.  We're all competing for the same pool of rewards, and whatever you get is something someone else doesn't get.  Those 750 other players exist, no matter how much you dismiss them as "casuals" or whatever.
  • Kahmon
    Kahmon Posts: 625 Critical Contributor
    entrailbucket said:
    Top 250?  That means you're beating 750 other players, quite possibly other players who like to play and  are competing, but can't do it optimally.  Your intent is irrelevant, the irrefutable fact is that your play is taking rewards away from them.  We're all competing for the same pool of rewards, and whatever you get is something someone else doesn't get.  Those 750 other players exist, no matter how much you dismiss them as "casuals" or whatever.
    Not all are actively playing. Some join just for the alliance rewards and never play a single node.
  • Roland113
    Roland113 Posts: 298 Mover and Shaker
    entrailbucket said:
    Top 250?  That means you're beating 750 other players, quite possibly other players who like to play and are competing, but can't do it optimally.  Your intent is irrelevant, the irrefutable fact is that your play is taking rewards away from them.  We're all competing for the same pool of rewards, and whatever you get is something someone else doesn't get.  Those 750 other players exist, no matter how much you dismiss them as "casuals" or whatever.
    Its semantics.  

    Your initial statement of "I think when a lot of people ask for more 5*, what they're really asking for is "give out more 5* to me (or players in my situation), but not to anybody else," " does not apply to many people and I'm simply giving a counterpoint explaining why more covers make my MPQ experience more enjoyable to me with no regard to where I place competitively.  
  • BlackBoltRocks
    BlackBoltRocks Posts: 1,187 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2018
    Roland113 said:
    entrailbucket said:
    Top 250?  That means you're beating 750 other players, quite possibly other players who like to play and are competing, but can't do it optimally.  Your intent is irrelevant, the irrefutable fact is that your play is taking rewards away from them.  We're all competing for the same pool of rewards, and whatever you get is something someone else doesn't get.  Those 750 other players exist, no matter how much you dismiss them as "casuals" or whatever.
    Its semantics.  

    Your initial statement of "I think when a lot of people ask for more 5*, what they're really asking for is "give out more 5* to me (or players in my situation), but not to anybody else," " does not apply to many people and I'm simply giving a counterpoint explaining why more covers make my MPQ experience more enjoyable to me with no regard to where I place competitively.  
    Which is a rather poor assumption to make. People saying “give me more 5*” does not necessarily equate to “but also do not give more 5* to everyone else”. For some reason entrailbucket is behaving as though 5* are private goods: making them accessible to one person necessarily means depriving another person of them. Which isnt true at all. 5*, like almost everything in this game, should be public goods: making them accessible to one person does not deprive another person of them.

    What is a private good, however, is placement (and by extension placement rewards). Oh, and PvP retaliation. Those are separate topics altogether.

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