Should PvP Ribbons Be Awarded for PW Level?

wereotter

babar3355 said:

James13 said:

Some of us don't want to grind.  Ever.  And have developed playstyles that allow us to level PW moderately and leave them there.  Thus ensuring never once having to grind for runes.

I'd read this to some degree as saying the way I choose to play the game is wrong and should be punished.

This is not the way to think about it.  You are conflating the problem with getting sufficient runes with the problem of people with sufficient resources exploiting easier matchmaking.

The question to ask is... if every player in the game had sufficient runes to level their PWs to 60, is it a problem that some people are refusing to do so in order to place higher in PvP events...?  Clearly the answer is yes.

Though to his point, those who lack the resources shouldn’t be punished because of a minority of players who are abusing an exploit. I used myself as an example earlier. I’m currently at 0 runes with 8 planeswalkers in my repetiore under level 50, many are newer planeswalkers I acquired because I wanted to use them, like Vraska and Huatli, not to mention the huge investment that is Karn.

I do choose to use Vraska for certain PvP events. Not because she’s low level, but because for nodes where I use her, her skills and access to the colors she is enable me to most easily/efficiently clear the node. I’m not trying to grind runes to get her to level 60 just to get the same scores as before.

Unknown

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Kinesia

People who can level everyone to 60 are now a minority. That should never ever ever be the yardstick used for setting policy for everyone else.

You need a way to stop abuse without hurting the many many people with a legitimate issue.

hawkyh1

maybe there's a way to put the level 50-60 planeswalker
players in separate prize brackets to those of 49 and
under.

HH

Mburn7

hawkyh1 said:

maybe there's a way to put the level 50-60 planeswalker
players in separate prize brackets to those of 49 and
under.

HH

That would be tough, because what happens if you level up during an event?  Do you switch brackets?  And what happens if you have 2 level 60 walkers and 1 level 40 walker?

fiirst

Mburn7 said:

hawkyh1 said:

maybe there's a way to put the level 50-60 planeswalker
players in separate prize brackets to those of 49 and
under.

HH

That would be tough, because what happens if you level up during an event?  Do you switch brackets?  And what happens if you have 2 level 60 walkers and 1 level 40 walker?

how about selection pw into all node and determining bracket by the highest lv pw at joining

hawkyh1

Mburn7 said:

hawkyh1 said:

maybe there's a way to put the level 50-60 planeswalker
players in separate prize brackets to those of 49 and
under.

HH

That would be tough, because what happens if you level up during an event?  Do you switch brackets?  And what happens if you have 2 level 60 walkers and 1 level 40 walker?

my idea is your first committed planeswalker determines
your reward bracket. so if you played using the level 40
first you'll be in the under 49's prize bracket. taking your
example, to game the system you need to work out your
advantage/deck for the level 40. then enter one of the
two level 60's first to get into the 50+ bracket and then
enter the level 40. making it more fiddly, more so if the
secondary objectives are already fiddly. all other players
at level 60 or 40 would just play as normal.

HH

tfg76

I vote for the simplest possible solution here: Remove level from the equation when doing matchmaking in the "premier" PvPs. In other words, TG, AI etc should still match by level, RtO and HoD should ignore the level.

This gives the right incentives without unnecessarily penalizing players: If you think you can do well with a level 45 planeswalker, all the more power to you!

bk1234

tfg76 said:

I vote for the simplest possible solution here: Remove level from the equation when doing matchmaking in the "premier" PvPs. In other words, TG, AI etc should still match by level, RtO and HoD should ignore the level.

This gives the right incentives without unnecessarily penalizing players: If you think you can do well with a level 45 planeswalker, all the more power to you!

I agree with this, but only for Gold and Platinum. 

Unknown

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FeralSkald

Thought about this a bit more and came to the thought of, what purpose do levels play?

We have runes that once were super easy to get so long time players like me have huge stockpiles we could never spend. Newer players struggle to obtain them and get stuck in a seemingly unending grind. For what? From a gaming perspective the leveling isn't fun, or even useful at teaching. I get a new Walker I hold a button until its level 60, then start learning it with deck building and story mode and/or TG. A new player gets the Walker does the same deck building but learns a different version of the Walker as they go. Ultimately the learning comes from deck building and testing, the levels are insignificant.

Basically the more I ponder on it the more I think we should just ditch runes completely, or use them as card currency. Put walkers at level 60 upon obtaining them as far as abilities and such and simply remove levels from the equation.

TomB

And I personally like the idea of awarding any runes acquired during play directly to the experience total of the walker used, and only awarding runes to the player when the PW used is level 60. This way, a PW gains experience/levels by being used in matches, and will gain levels when used whether the player wants them to or not. This wouldn't eliminate the "problem" of people with "platinum" collections sandbagging in events but would (in theory) limit it, and the runes gained when using PW's that are maxed could be used to "jump start" a new PW and get them to a level where they have some (if not all) of their abilities activated.

bk1234

To speak to those who say "maybe someone doesn't have the runes to level up their PW" -- by the time you get to platinum or gold, if you don't have 5 PW, one to cover each color leveled to at least 50, frankly you tiered up too early.  Playing a low level PW in the top tiers is not a necessity, it's a choice. We are up to 38 PW now, there are several choices for each node.

I like the idea of just removing the +/-10 (or 15?) restriction in these tiers as well. 

The problem isn't not being able to level PW, the problem is choosing not to in order to gain advantage. It's not strategic, it's exploitative -- if you want the good rewards that come from playing at a higher level, you should earn them, not exploit the system to get them. 

Kinesia

Level planeswalkers up by playing them. Then if you use a low walker a lot they won't be low. It helps newbies and prevents this abuse long term.

Mburn7

bken1234 said:

To speak to those who say "maybe someone doesn't have the runes to level up their PW" -- by the time you get to platinum or gold, if you don't have 5 PW, one to cover each color leveled to at least 50, frankly you tiered up too early.  Playing a low level PW in the top tiers is not a necessity, it's a choice. We are up to 38 PW now, there are several choices for each node.

The issue is that sometimes a newer walker is better suited to a node, even at a lower level.  I was using Samut in events while she was stuck at 40 because she's still pretty good there.  Same for Bolas, H2, and Elspeth.

I wasn't exploiting anything, and I had level 60 options, but I thought that a different walker worked better for the objectives even though it wasn't level 60.  Why should I be punished for that, or forced to use a walker that makes my life more difficult?

Sarahschmara

I don’t have enough runes to level all of my PWs right away. I shouldn’t be punished for that nor should I be discouraged to experiment with my newly acquired PWs. 

I don’t know many players that abuse the system like you suggest. 

wereotter

bken1234 said:

To speak to those who say "maybe someone doesn't have the runes to level up their PW" -- by the time you get to platinum or gold, if you don't have 5 PW, one to cover each color leveled to at least 50, frankly you tiered up too early.  Playing a low level PW in the top tiers is not a necessity, it's a choice. We are up to 38 PW now, there are several choices for each node.

I like the idea of just removing the +/-10 (or 15?) restriction in these tiers as well. 

The problem isn't not being able to level PW, the problem is choosing not to in order to gain advantage. It's not strategic, it's exploitative -- if you want the good rewards that come from playing at a higher level, you should earn them, not exploit the system to get them. 

There’s a difference between having multiple walkers and being blocked from using walkers while they’re new and exciting due to the restriction you’re proposing. Also there’s still the point that planeswalker abilities or color combinations, especially when Vraska was released, means people will want to use certain walkers to beat certain objectives over others. And let’s be honest, we all know certain walkers are better than others, and with no way to go back once you’re in platinum, if you’ve only leveled one of each color, likely the Origins walkers, you’re screwed.

I think your intentions here are good, don’t get me wrong, but I also think your perspective seems skewed or blinded to what it’s like to not be someone who is sitting on a mountain of runes whenever a new walker comes out. It also comes across as a little unfeeling so say that only those in that position can use the new walkers while everyone else can’t or they’ll be punished.

tfg76

I also like the idea someone mentioned earlier of discarding runes as a currency altogether and simply auto-level up walkers as they are actually played. That way, there's no permanent abuse possibility, you get to experience the walker at different levels. It also is somewhat flavorful

Mburn7

tfg76 said:

I also like the idea someone mentioned earlier of discarding runes as a currency altogether and simply auto-level up walkers as they are actually played. That way, there's no permanent abuse possibility, you get to experience the walker at different levels. It also is somewhat flavorful

I have supported this idea in the past and will continue to bump it in the future.  Its a great idea (except for the old lords who have a billion runes stockpiled up, this hurts them a lot)

babar3355

Kinesia said:

Level planeswalkers up by playing them. Then if you use a low walker a lot they won't be low. It helps newbies and prevents this abuse long term.

This really is the most enjoyable and logical answer.  Although it will end up feeling a bit grindy for those that want to get walkers to level 60. Also, it will have some negative externalities like some players might feel disincentivized from playing favorite walkers if they want to keep them lower level.  Then again, aren't we trying to close that exploit?