So... how the hell do you win PvP, exactly?

Unknown

I'm starting to lose my mind here. I have no idea how people without a maxed-out team of 141s (preferably with Hulk and/or LazyThor) ever place decently in PvP. I spend three days solid grinding out the event, get to around 700... At which point I start getting swarmed. I'm not even top 50 at this point, and I play a match worth 20 points and lose 100 in the process. Repeat this until I end up below 500. I can't keep up. This despite using an extremely efficient strategy (most matches were over within 1-2 minutes). Granted, my team isn't some defensive dynamo where people think "Ugh, better stay away from that", but then again, what 2* team not containing Thor and Ares is?

This just keeps happening. Within the last day, I can't break higher than 700, and if I try to do anything in the last 8 hours or so, I end up losing several hundred points. So what the hell am I doing wrong? What's it going to take? Obviously, "Level 141 hulk" isn't an option because actually getting well-leveled 3* cards means spending around my rent on hero points or winning events (which I just can't win with my team). I don't think I can overstate how much time I've spent griding in these events. But it doesn't matter - near the end, I lose all my points. If I stop and shield before the end of the event, I end up with around 700... which is never enough to get me top 50. Anything beyond that and I hit this same wall. What am I supposed to do, grind to 900 on day two and buy a cosmic shield?

Am I doing something wrong? Is there some strategy to this? Is there any way for someone with a solid 2* team to use these events to get 3* covers?

Unknown

The recent events are extra competitive probably because season 1 is ending soon and people want to get some extra points in to be safe, so it's not indicative of the competition you'd normally face.

Tharos

Based on great tips given on this forum, my way to go was (with a 2* roster, usually the features character, OBW and Ares or Thor. Yeah, same as most people, but I think it is the best 2* team you may have on offence and defence after):
- climb day 1 (or after if you can't, it doesn't matter) to about 300 points for the token
- next day (about 1 day left), go to 500-600
- near the end (for me, it is close to 8h before the end, being in europe, I can't play during the night/early in the morning), climb as high as you can
- once you are attacked too much, or of the game gives you too much level 141 teams, use a shield (a 8 hour shield for me).

With this strategy, I end between 750 points and 900 points (got the 50HP on 900 twice). Most of the time around 800.

One week ago, it worked pretty well to have the two 3* cover (my alliance can't compete in top 100). I can gain 100HP by myself, and 50HP by my alliance, to it is the price of the 8 shield.
Now, the score to win these two covers are too high. In my 4 last brackets, #10 had more than 1100. But with luck, with about 900 points, you may have one 3* cover. I got only one over the last 4 events (what a huge step back compared to last week and before!!)

No need to say that now, you will win less HP, so if you shield at each event, you will lose HP each pvp event, but it is the price to pay to keep your score nowadays.

Sorry not to have a magical strategy to be more competitive, but it is the way developpers wants us to play with a 2* roster now.
Sad but true: pvp is no longer an easy but long way to make your 2*->3* transition. It is now a difficult and longer way to do it.

Unknown

I'll give it a try Tharos.

Unknown

I'm in Europe as well and I follow essentially the same strategy as Tharos. Play a bit here and there so you can start your last push with a good foundation of ~500 points 9-8 hours before the end of the event, then shield for 8 hours. This is, if I actually care about getting the 3* cover, if not, I'll basically do the same, try to get to 900 for the HP and hope I'll stay in top 100 (these days more like top 150, if at all) for some more HP.

Depending on where you are, a different timing might work better for you, but making a push in the last hour and hope to reach the ~800 necessary for a 3* cover is not feasible imo (Tried today. It was hard and bitter). The retaliations and attacks are coming so fast and cost you so much, once you're in the 600s, you cannot keep abreast of them. Similarly, making the last push 3 hours before the end, for a 3 hour shield doesn't work for me either. Activity is already to high by that point, at least that's my impression.

Basically, if you really want to participate in PvP, be prepared to lay out 150 HP for a shield.

Unknown

Yeah, you're not alone here. In addition to the extra competition from the season, the bracketing system has been changed to put more high scoring players in the same bracket. Scoring in the top 10 now requires 4 digit scores. Additionally, recent changes to matchmaking prevent the old score-based matchups, everything seems to be based on roster strength or MMR or some combination. Anyway, eventually you'll hit the point where your matchmaking is capping your possible target value. Meaning you won't have targets to hit without suffering a greater loss upon their retaliation. It's essentially a softcap upon points, were it not for shields. As mentioned above, placing within the top 25 without an extremely strong (so you can face higher point players) or extremely weak (so you can get an easy bracket) requires shielding in order to get above the points softcap and stay there.

ThatOneGuyjp189512

Another way, just wait a full day(when it says 1d 12h left) and then enter and go to about 400-500 points and then lay off for another day, waiting a full day makes it so you're not in a insanely tough bracket. Before i started this strategy my brackets were 1300 or so for the top, last two events i've been put in brackets where the top person only had just over 1000(1030 in the Loki event) and i finished rank 10 with 954 points.

Tharos

ThatOneGuyjp189512 wrote:

Another way, just wait a full day(when it says 1d 12h left) and then enter and go to about 400-500 points and then lay off for another day, waiting a full day makes it so you're not in a insanely tough bracket. Before i started this strategy my brackets were 1300 or so for the top, last two events i've been put in brackets where the top person only had just over 1000(1030 in the Loki event) and i finished rank 10 with 954 points.

No, it no longer works (at least for me). On previous events, I tryed to enter with less than a day left, and I always ended in a bracket where people already are over 900 at the top. By the end of the event, top 10 were all above 1100. So all that late enter gave me, is less time to gain points, no advantage with the rewards.

Unknown

It's not just you. I'm in the same boat, and I even have a 141 Punisher. Once I cross 800 points, if I unshield to play a single match, I lose up to 200 points, making it impossible to gain any ground. Starting time doesn't seem to matter. I couldn't break top 50 last event. I'm having better luck with tokens these days.

emaker27

For me, it was just a focus issue. Do I focus on trying to get high placement, or do I focus on trying to get as much iso and covers as possible and enjoy the actual puzzle matching aspect? If you just focus on the game, then eventually you'll get the roster you need. It was slow for me as well. And then before you know it, you'll have a decent roster which will still get attacked, but not as much.

Not the message you want to hear... but good luck!

Unknown

Like everyone else I mainly use OBW and ares as my main then if one dies I use Thor or dr doom level 100. Getting to 500 points or so with 1 day left then get up to 800 pts. Usually if I go to work and come home I will lose 200 pts from attacks. The frustrating part is with 1 day left I would win 19 pts then lose 40 then play another round and same thing over and over. After winning 5 rounds in a row I was down 100 pts total. Frustrating as hell. Basically luck to get a streak of wins with no hits then placing a shield.

ToryTory

With the way current pvp is set up, there is no longer the safety net of tanking your mmr and coming out without using shields. Once you cross 500 points be prepared to lose points. If you're at a 2* transition, it hurts. I struggled a couple months ago as 2* but back then you could claim top prizes using minimal shields and just save HP for the next PVP.

I'm not sure if D3 is going to change this. From a financial standpoint they make a killing off players using shields. My advice is to save what little HP you get from PVP and only use it for tournaments you really want covers for. Try to push for top 50 so you do get some HP per pvp and stock up. You cannot get top 10 without shielding. And if you do, be prepared to play 1 to 2 matches quickly and and shield up. I averaged 500 HP per PVP getting top 10 the past weeks, and that's being conserative. If you have a roster people tend to avoid it might be cheaper I'd you don't get hit.

The changes introduced within the past month makes it a nightmare to get stronger. Be prepared to weather the storm. It's a long road ahead.

ThatOneGuyjp189512

i entered with a day left, i'm in a bracket where the top person is 20 points ahead of me(i'm at 723) and no one's shielded, so entering a day has definitely helped me, i think mostly it's luck of the draw and how high your MMR is in PVP. the only event i ever won, was a divine champions, i entered late because i had to work, got up to 500 the first day, had to work again, got knocked down a 100 points, then grinded hard at 3am to 869 and bought a 24 hour shield cause i had to just wake up and work the next day, ended up winning cause they just sort of slaughtered each other at the end.

Pwuz_

I could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure part of the UBER high scores filling the top 50 positions in the events since the season has begun is that when you lose I'm pretty sure you aren't losing as many points as your opponent gains.

A few ultra competitive players can go back and forth fighting each other while making incremental increases in their score till the last day or so. They throw up their shields and sit back as the rest of us make a last ditch effort and keep having your experience of losing more points than we gain during a single match.

If I'm correct, I would venture that pushing as far as soon as you can and then shielding out the last FULL day actually ranks higher than playing some what normally and making a big push during the last any part of the last day.

I haven't used many shields recently, but unless things have changed, while you don't lose points while shielded, if your opponent (who is only retaliating against your previous attack) loses to you, you actually gain EVEN MORE points.

Unknown

Yup, you get points if people retaliate and lose while you're shielded. Playing at the end of PvP is a terrible idea. Buying shields is expensive, but much better. I generally try to be a least 900-1100 in the last 8hrs then throw up a shield. I'll try to shield hop at the end if I really need the cover and get bumped down to 11th, but it's a very risky proposition

ThatOneGuyjp189512

AethD wrote:

Yup, you get points if people retaliate and lose while you're shielded. Playing at the end of PvP is a terrible idea. Buying shields is expensive, but much better. I generally try to be a least 900-1100 in the last 8hrs then throw up a shield. I'll try to shield hop at the end if I really need the cover and get bumped down to 11th, but it's a very risky proposition

99% of the time you end up losing more points than you gain, best strategy, do one or two matches(at most) and then shield again. then after the second match you'll see the attacks come in spades

Unknown

Pwuz_ wrote:

I could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure part of the UBER high scores filling the top 50 positions in the events since the season has begun is that when you lose I'm pretty sure you aren't losing as many points as your opponent gains.

A few ultra competitive players can go back and forth fighting each other while making incremental increases in their score till the last day or so. They throw up their shields and sit back as the rest of us make a last ditch effort and keep having your experience of losing more points than we gain during a single match.

If I'm correct, I would venture that pushing as far as soon as you can and then shielding out the last FULL day actually ranks higher than playing some what normally and making a big push during the last any part of the last day.

I haven't used many shields recently, but unless things have changed, while you don't lose points while shielded, if your opponent (who is only retaliating against your previous attack) loses to you, you actually gain EVEN MORE points.

You don't lose the full value of the points your opponent gains up to around the 900 part. That said at that point we're talking about someone getting +40 and you only lost 38 points, so although you didn't lose the full value it's hardly an amount that'd make brute force feasible. At this point if your roster is considered weak relative to the average you have to rely on shields or your points will drop. Note that letting points drop is perfectly fine because the number of points goes up over time, so if you can just ride it out it's entirely possible later your 900 points is no longer considered high for your roster strength and you can climb again. It doesn't happen often, but it is possible.

Scores above the 1000 range is pretty much all dependent on shields in some way. Even if you didn't use a shield yourself, you definitely got most of your points from someone who shielded.

Art Flash

Tharos wrote:

Based on great tips given on this forum, my way to go was (with a 2* roster, usually the features character, OBW and Ares or Thor. Yeah, same as most people, but I think it is the best 2* team you may have on offence and defence after):
- climb day 1 (or after if you can't, it doesn't matter) to about 300 points for the token
- next day (about 1 day left), go to 500-600
- near the end (for me, it is close to 8h before the end, being in europe, I can't play during the night/early in the morning), climb as high as you can
- once you are attacked too much, or of the game gives you too much level 141 teams, use a shield (a 8 hour shield for me).

With this strategy, I end between 750 points and 900 points (got the 50HP on 900 twice). Most of the time around 800.

One week ago, it worked pretty well to have the two 3* cover (my alliance can't compete in top 100). I can gain 100HP by myself, and 50HP by my alliance, to it is the price of the 8 shield.
Now, the score to win these two covers are too high. In my 4 last brackets, #10 had more than 1100. But with luck, with about 900 points, you may have one 3* cover. I got only one over the last 4 events (what a huge step back compared to last week and before!!)

No need to say that now, you will win less HP, so if you shield at each event, you will lose HP each pvp event, but it is the price to pay to keep your score nowadays.

Sorry not to have a magical strategy to be more competitive, but it is the way developpers wants us to play with a 2* roster now.
Sad but true: pvp is no longer an easy but long way to make your 2*->3* transition. It is now a difficult and longer way to do it.

I can vouch for this myself. While I usually push with a little more variation, I usually try to first go for the 300, then push for about 600-700 the second day, and then from there I try to earn just a bit more than I ever lose if possible (if I come back and see I lost 102 points I'll shoot for 115 etc) and I'll end up between 600-800ish points by the end. If you have a decent alliance you can usually get 50HP from them per PVP event, so if you can get in the top 50, shield at 3 hours, you'll make 25HP an event, slow but steady until you can use that to buy/upgrade covers or buy better shields to relax more.

The other thing I would add to this is use OBW when you're grinding, but switch her out on your last match before you break for a bit if you have someone more intimidating/defensive so deter or fight off attackers. I use OBW to prolong the need for health packs, but I'll put in someone more challenging to fight and win a match with them so that my AI roster is set to them.

Unknown

With the elimination of tanking and new bracketing system, this game's PvP has become P2W

Tharos

gobstopper wrote:

With the elimination of tanking and new bracketing system, this game's PvP has become P2W

I must agree with that.
I made a lot of tests during the last events (maybe une week ago). Maybe it is just (bad) luck, but I never went into a bracket where top 10 is under 1100.
Most of the time, I reached about 900 points then shield for the last 8 hours. Reached top 50 (and a 3* cover) only once. Never reached top 25, so only got 50HP (+50HP from alliance). If I stopped just before 900, I am losing HP. If I fought a lot and achieve this 900 step, hooray, no HP gain after the shield, but no loss.

Once, I used a lot of shield to try to climb higher that 900: I ended up at 850, because during the last push, I was attacked faster, and more often that I can win games. Maybe it is just the price to pay to be above 900 with a 2* roster, but it is no longer for me.

And once, I tried to stay at about 650/700 points. It is really easy, just win few games after being attacked, but you are not attacked a lot at this level. And of course, no need to shield here. Gess what? Now with this score, you are about #100. Maybe a little better for 50HP, maybe at 25HP. + 50 HP from alliance.


Conclusion: with a 2* roster, you have two options (with a +50HP from alliance):

1. Struggle a lot (and I mean a LOT), to go at 900 or a little above, use a shield (I suppose here a 8h shield, adapt HP gain if you use another one). You will win:
- maybe a 3* cover if you are really lucky with the bracket, but most you will have the 2*
- 0 HP if you achieve the 900 step, or -50HP otherwise

2. Play it easy, only a few match, to finish around 700 points / #100. You will win:
- the same 2* cover as previously stated
- 75HP or 100 HP depending on if you finish above or under #100
- a lot of time to do something else

For now, I made my choice.
But really, I hope they wil change something, because this system is so impossible to play to make the 3* transition....

Unknown

Yeah I know what you mean. One time during a punisher event I made it in the top 10 with like 850 points. Now it seems like 850 is getting me top 50 roughly.