Any news on dupes from Elite packs?

span_argoman

Kinesia said:

It's worth noting that Orbs weren't around when Jewels started, so the whole thing potentially needs rethinking...
Like, I am frustrated that Orbs aren't on the currency bar, but that would be too crowded and 4 currencies _does_ seem overboard, but some potential changes might be worse.

And, yes, the _actual_ aim is "removing overwhelming disappointment" rather than any specific suggestion.

Yeah, Jewels are basically afflicted with the middle child syndrome lol.

I similarly would like to be able to see how many Orbs I have without having to go to the Booster Crafting page to check. But instead of adding it to the currency bar, I was thinking they could instead find space to insert it on the conversion summary pop-up. So at the end after telling you how many Orbs and Runes you get from the duplicates, it could tell you your current total Orb count since that is really the only time (at this stage in the game at least) that Orb counts change.

arNero

Dear lord.... Now we have a very good reason why, if I want to spend jewels and I see that there is/are mythics in the pool that I already have, I NEVER buy.

It's almost as if they're trying to "compensate" how "easy" it is now to gather jewels (25 jewels per Across Ixalan run, which is much less risky to complete than Trial of the Planes) by making them worthless.....

For the record, I did spend 1200 jewels to open 3 Mythic+ packs. The first one I got Multani, although then I got a Karn's Temporal Sundering from the 5-pack Super pack afterwards. The second one was Mox Amber. Third was Forebear's Blade. Each time after I get a mythic, I immediately stopped spending; Crystals and Jewels are something of a non-renewable resources, so I am not too keen on wasting them (in fact, I only purchase the 5-pack super pack to get guaranteed rares only three or four times per set at best, then the number of dupe rares pretty much shuts down my interest to buy more when crystals cannot be gained by playing Story mode 1000 times)

Mburn7

arNero said:

It's almost as if they're trying to "compensate" how "easy" it is now to gather jewels (25 jewels per Across Ixalan run, which is much less risky to complete than Trial of the Planes) by making them worthless.....

Each time after I get a mythic, I immediately stopped spending; Crystals and Jewels are something of a non-renewable resources, so I am not too keen on wasting them 

I wouldn't call jewels "worthless" since they are still basically the only way to get masterpieces (yes they are back in packs, but they appear infrequently enough that you can't rely on that to get them).  Also, yes getting dupes sucks, but getting a large chunk of a new guaranteed non-dupe mythic isn't totally worthless either.

And crystals and jewels are the literal definition of a renewable resource.  With no events going on a platinum player can get 25 crystals and 25 jewels per day by just playing Across Ixalan and Training Grounds.  The weekend event and (seemingly) randomly inserted mid-week event only increases this even more.  The only way to waste them is to not use them, since they hold no value just sitting in your inventory.  I get hoarding in preparation of a new set, but eventually you need to spend them.  I personally burn through them almost as fast as I get them unless I have a definite reason to save (like a new set coming out in a few weeks or a new walker I want coming up in the rotation).
Sure I get mostly dupes, but for when I get a new shiny toy to play with it is all worth it.

I hate when people think that getting a guaranteed mythic and premium pack (with a guaranteed rare) every 2-4 weeks is "worthless" and act like its a major issue.  I remember when the first guaranteed mythic pack came out (for 300 crystals) and everyone lost their minds over how great it was, even though you mostly got dupes that were completely useless.  I remember when it took 2-3 MONTHS to save up for a big box (granted that was 600 crystals, but still), and then you would just get 3 copies of the same rare and nothing else.  I remember not getting new cards for 4 months to save up for Kiora back when she cost 950 crystals because she was the only multicolored walker in the game and objectively the best overall (arguably she is still one of the best overall, but costs the same as all the dual colors).  

Please (everyone, not just you) stop complaining about "worthless" packs and currency.  This is a trading card game.  You will get duplicates.  You will get cards you don't like at high rarities, and you will get multiple copies of them.  If Oktagon ran a couple more events every week, there would be more than enough currency acquisition to make up for for the dupes issue through the sheer number of packs you would get to open every month.  I'm sick of people just demanding free stuff and getting angry when they don't get it.

GrizzoMtGPQ

Mburn7 said:

arNero said:

It's almost as if they're trying to "compensate" how "easy" it is now to gather jewels (25 jewels per Across Ixalan run, which is much less risky to complete than Trial of the Planes) by making them worthless.....

Each time after I get a mythic, I immediately stopped spending; Crystals and Jewels are something of a non-renewable resources, so I am not too keen on wasting them 

I wouldn't call jewels "worthless" since they are still basically the only way to get masterpieces (yes they are back in packs, but they appear infrequently enough that you can't rely on that to get them).  Also, yes getting dupes sucks, but getting a large chunk of a new guaranteed non-dupe mythic isn't totally worthless either.

And crystals and jewels are the literal definition of a renewable resource.  With no events going on a platinum player can get 55 crystals and 25 jewels per day by just playing Across Ixalan and Training Grounds.  The weekend event and (seemingly) randomly inserted mid-week event only increases this even more.  The only way to waste them is to not use them, since they hold no value just sitting in your inventory.  I get hoarding in preparation of a new set, but eventually you need to spend them.  I personally burn through them almost as fast as I get them unless I have a definite reason to save (like a new set coming out in a few weeks or a new walker I want coming up in the rotation).
Sure I get mostly dupes, but for when I get a new shiny toy to play with it is all worth it.

I hate when people think that getting a guaranteed mythic and premium pack (with a guaranteed rare) every 2-4 weeks is "worthless" and act like its a major issue.  I remember when the first guaranteed mythic pack came out (for 300 crystals) and everyone lost their minds over how great it was, even though you mostly got dupes that were completely useless.  I remember when it took 2-3 MONTHS to save up for a big box (granted that was 600 crystals, but still), and then you would just get 3 copies of the same rare and nothing else.  I remember not getting new cards for 4 months to save up for Kiora back when she cost 950 crystals because she was the only multicolored walker in the game and objectively the best overall (arguably she is still one of the best overall, but costs the same as all the dual colors).  

Please (everyone, not just you) stop complaining about "worthless" packs and currency.  This is a trading card game.  You will get duplicates.  You will get cards you don't like at high rarities, and you will get multiple copies of them.  If Oktagon ran a couple more events every week, there would be more than enough currency acquisition to make up for for the dupes issue through the sheer number of packs you would get to open every month.  I'm sick of people just demanding free stuff and getting angry when they don't get it.

This exactly. Jewels are the best way to get Masterpieces and a banging way to get rares. The former for the old guard and the latter for the new. I think it works just fine. Don't spend jewels if you have most of the cards. This game encourages you to play the long game and have restraint.

hawkyh1

'With no events going on a platinum player can get 55 crystals and 25 jewels per day by just playing Across Ixalan and Training Grounds. '

my maths puts it at 25 crystals(10 net from ai + 15 from tg)
and 25 jewels?

HH

Mburn7

hawkyh1 said:

'With no events going on a platinum player can get 55 crystals and 25 jewels per day by just playing Across Ixalan and Training Grounds. '

my maths puts it at 25 crystals(10 net from ai + 15 from tg)
and 25 jewels?

HH

Yeah, minor typo for me.  someone else pointed it out as well.  I edited the original post to be correct.

My bad.

The general message is unchanged, though, so feel free to debate that if you are so inclined.

arNero

Mburn7 said:

arNero said:

It's almost as if they're trying to "compensate" how "easy" it is now to gather jewels (25 jewels per Across Ixalan run, which is much less risky to complete than Trial of the Planes) by making them worthless.....

Each time after I get a mythic, I immediately stopped spending; Crystals and Jewels are something of a non-renewable resources, so I am not too keen on wasting them 

I wouldn't call jewels "worthless" since they are still basically the only way to get masterpieces (yes they are back in packs, but they appear infrequently enough that you can't rely on that to get them).  Also, yes getting dupes sucks, but getting a large chunk of a new guaranteed non-dupe mythic isn't totally worthless either.

And crystals and jewels are the literal definition of a renewable resource.  With no events going on a platinum player can get 25 crystals and 25 jewels per day by just playing Across Ixalan and Training Grounds.  The weekend event and (seemingly) randomly inserted mid-week event only increases this even more.  The only way to waste them is to not use them, since they hold no value just sitting in your inventory.  I get hoarding in preparation of a new set, but eventually you need to spend them.  I personally burn through them almost as fast as I get them unless I have a definite reason to save (like a new set coming out in a few weeks or a new walker I want coming up in the rotation).
Sure I get mostly dupes, but for when I get a new shiny toy to play with it is all worth it.

I hate when people think that getting a guaranteed mythic and premium pack (with a guaranteed rare) every 2-4 weeks is "worthless" and act like its a major issue.  I remember when the first guaranteed mythic pack came out (for 300 crystals) and everyone lost their minds over how great it was, even though you mostly got dupes that were completely useless.  I remember when it took 2-3 MONTHS to save up for a big box (granted that was 600 crystals, but still), and then you would just get 3 copies of the same rare and nothing else.  I remember not getting new cards for 4 months to save up for Kiora back when she cost 950 crystals because she was the only multicolored walker in the game and objectively the best overall (arguably she is still one of the best overall, but costs the same as all the dual colors).  

Please (everyone, not just you) stop complaining about "worthless" packs and currency.  This is a trading card game.  You will get duplicates.  You will get cards you don't like at high rarities, and you will get multiple copies of them.  If Oktagon ran a couple more events every week, there would be more than enough currency acquisition to make up for for the dupes issue through the sheer number of packs you would get to open every month.  I'm sick of people just demanding free stuff and getting angry when they don't get it.

Okay. First thing first, I admit I have used too many overly strong words to express my displeasure about getting dupes.

Yes, I can agree that jewels and crystals are not literally worthless; what I wanted to express that in the context of dupes, given that there is no guarantee that those jewels and crystals you have painstakingly saved up will get you more than some measly orbs (of which you still need a ton of them to create a mythic, and they cannot get you masterpieces), jewels and crystals become relatively worthless in the context that, if I want some orbs, I'll just login daily and collect scraps and morsels of orbs from the free packs. I will not waste 400 jewels which I need to spend like three weeks to gather to just become 500 measly runes (and orbs); there are better ways to get orbs and runes, thank you very much.

As for jewels and crystals being renewable, yes, without wasting them on Trial of the Planes, Platinum players can get 25 guaranteed jewels and 25 guaranteed crystals every single day, so they can always get more every day, in which case, the literal definition of non-renewable is indeed laughably wrong. But please consider one thing: How many runes can you get playing the game the entire day? 1000? 10,000? 100,000? No, there is no limit other than time, in which case I consider Runes to be the only renewable resource in the game because you can amass as much as you desire with the game itself not putting a limit on how much you can earn, unlike jewels and crystals. So yes, I was wrong to say that jewels and crystals are non-renewable resources in a literal sense, but whereas you can waste literally a million rune in a single day to level up your planeswalker and recoup all of those maybe in as short a time, you cannot recoup 400 jewels in just one day. And no, P2P players are to be exempted from this discussion; for them, they essentially have no limit on how much they can spend.

I guess that perhaps you are sick of people who keep asking for this and that, but in case you miss a few posts in this thread, there are people who wasted 1200 jewels (that's an equivalent of two months of playing) for three. Of. The. Same. Card. In other games, dupes aren't that big an issue because they allow a deck to have several copies of a single card (not to mention that in paper TCGs, you can have 100 copies of a mythic and split them in a few dozen decks), but in singleton deck format like MtGPQ, dupes becomes a very significant issue. Every dupe is a worthless extra which gives you some measly consolation prize when people would rather get new cards. I may not necessarily be speaking for those people who rage upon getting their Xth dupe from jewels, but do please consider how you would feel if you spent 4000 jewels and get 10 of the exactsame card. Would you really say it's just TCG thing and move on?

Mburn7

arNero said:

Mburn7 said:

arNero said:

It's almost as if they're trying to "compensate" how "easy" it is now to gather jewels (25 jewels per Across Ixalan run, which is much less risky to complete than Trial of the Planes) by making them worthless.....

Each time after I get a mythic, I immediately stopped spending; Crystals and Jewels are something of a non-renewable resources, so I am not too keen on wasting them 

I wouldn't call jewels "worthless" since they are still basically the only way to get masterpieces (yes they are back in packs, but they appear infrequently enough that you can't rely on that to get them).  Also, yes getting dupes sucks, but getting a large chunk of a new guaranteed non-dupe mythic isn't totally worthless either.

And crystals and jewels are the literal definition of a renewable resource.  With no events going on a platinum player can get 25 crystals and 25 jewels per day by just playing Across Ixalan and Training Grounds.  The weekend event and (seemingly) randomly inserted mid-week event only increases this even more.  The only way to waste them is to not use them, since they hold no value just sitting in your inventory.  I get hoarding in preparation of a new set, but eventually you need to spend them.  I personally burn through them almost as fast as I get them unless I have a definite reason to save (like a new set coming out in a few weeks or a new walker I want coming up in the rotation).
Sure I get mostly dupes, but for when I get a new shiny toy to play with it is all worth it.

I hate when people think that getting a guaranteed mythic and premium pack (with a guaranteed rare) every 2-4 weeks is "worthless" and act like its a major issue.  I remember when the first guaranteed mythic pack came out (for 300 crystals) and everyone lost their minds over how great it was, even though you mostly got dupes that were completely useless.  I remember when it took 2-3 MONTHS to save up for a big box (granted that was 600 crystals, but still), and then you would just get 3 copies of the same rare and nothing else.  I remember not getting new cards for 4 months to save up for Kiora back when she cost 950 crystals because she was the only multicolored walker in the game and objectively the best overall (arguably she is still one of the best overall, but costs the same as all the dual colors).  

Please (everyone, not just you) stop complaining about "worthless" packs and currency.  This is a trading card game.  You will get duplicates.  You will get cards you don't like at high rarities, and you will get multiple copies of them.  If Oktagon ran a couple more events every week, there would be more than enough currency acquisition to make up for for the dupes issue through the sheer number of packs you would get to open every month.  I'm sick of people just demanding free stuff and getting angry when they don't get it.

I guess that perhaps you are sick of people who keep asking for this and that, but in case you miss a few posts in this thread, there are people who wasted 1200 jewels (that's an equivalent of two months of playing) for three. Of. The. Same. Card. In other games, dupes aren't that big an issue because they allow a deck to have several copies of a single card (not to mention that in paper TCGs, you can have 100 copies of a mythic and split them in a few dozen decks), but in singleton deck format like MtGPQ, dupes becomes a very significant issue. Every dupe is a worthless extra which gives you some measly consolation prize when people would rather get new cards. I may not necessarily be speaking for those people who rage upon getting their Xth dupe from jewels, but do please consider how you would feel if you spent 4000 jewels and get 10 of the exactsame card. Would you really say it's just TCG thing and move on?

Look, I am one of those people who have gotten stupid dupes from elite packs.  I got 3 Urza's Ruinous Blast from one rotation, I've gotten duplicates when I only own one of the cards in the pack, I've done all of this.

And I agree that it sucks.  It really sucks.  And I support ideas that will reduce your chances of a dupe.

But I don't think you should guarantee a non-dupe, I think that would be healthy long-term and I think it would make this game more Pay-to-Win, which I always try to avoid.

And I don't agree that duplicates are worthless.  In this game you get 4 Dupe Mythics per 1 Crafted Mythic.  That is an insanely good ratio.  Other games I play with a crafting system go with between 8:1 and 10:1, sometimes higher.  We get 4:1 on new cards and 6:1 on all the others.  And the rate on rares-to-mythics isn't bad either (I can't remember exactly what it is and don't want to put the wrong number, but I think it's about 10:1 or 15:1)

This is going on a bit (I do tend to ramble), so I'll sum up my thoughts quickly.

Dupes suck.

We get a seemingly large number of dupes from Elite packs.

Because of this people want to make Elite packs give a guaranteed non-dupe

I strongly disagree with this

I think a better solution is to just increase the number of events we have, which will increase the number of Jewels and Crystals we get on a weekly basis (while at the same time providing extra things to do), so you get more chances to get a non-dupe before the pack rotates

Jewels are not worthless if you get an Elite Pack dupe, since you get 1/4 or 1/2 (if you get a dupe masterpiece) of a new mythic that is guaranteed non-dupe.

Brakkis

I still feel the solutions for this are either:

1. Increase the orb value of dupe mythics (and possibly of rares). Masterpiece values seem fine. It shouldn't take 15 dupe mythics of the current set to craft 1 non-dupe of the same set.

or

2. Set the 400 jewel pack to not give dupes; but, leave dupes as a possibility from the 120 pack. Excluding other events, if you only run AXLN in Platinum, you can get a 120 pack every 5 days or a 400 pack every 18 days (2 days without AXLN being available). If you hold off and wait the 18 days, you get a new card. If you swing for the 120 three times instead, you opted to take the possibility of a new card ranging from rare to masterpiece, or you were content with the possibility getting a decent chunk of orbs.

bk1234

The only offense I take to to dupes in elite packs or elsewhere is when I get a dupe of a card I bought. 

I don’t think exclusive cards should be in elite packs (or ever lootable at all), but if they are and I can prove I bought it, I think I should get my pinkies credited back. 

The rest is just the nature of RNG. 

Rhasget

Mburn7 said:

Look, I am one of those people who have gotten stupid dupes from elite packs.  I got 3 Urza's Ruinous Blast from one rotation, I've gotten duplicates when I only own one of the cards in the pack, I've done all of this.

And I agree that it sucks.  It really sucks.  And I support ideas that will reduce your chances of a dupe.

But I don't think you should guarantee a non-dupe, I think that would be healthy long-term and I think it would make this game more Pay-to-Win, which I always try to avoid.

And I don't agree that duplicates are worthless.  In this game you get 4 Dupe Mythics per 1 Crafted Mythic.  That is an insanely good ratio.  Other games I play with a crafting system go with between 8:1 and 10:1, sometimes higher.  We get 4:1 on new cards and 6:1 on all the others.  And the rate on rares-to-mythics isn't bad either (I can't remember exactly what it is and don't want to put the wrong number, but I think it's about 10:1 or 15:1)

This is going on a bit (I do tend to ramble), so I'll sum up my thoughts quickly.

Dupes suck.

We get a seemingly large number of dupes from Elite packs.

Because of this people want to make Elite packs give a guaranteed non-dupe

I strongly disagree with this

I think a better solution is to just increase the number of events we have, which will increase the number of Jewels and Crystals we get on a weekly basis (while at the same time providing extra things to do), so you get more chances to get a non-dupe before the pack rotates

Jewels are not worthless if you get an Elite Pack dupe, since you get 1/4 or 1/2 (if you get a dupe masterpiece) of a new mythic that is guaranteed non-dupe.

End of Quote!



**** forum.
But doesn't a dupe mythic give you 500 orbs (750 for DOM until it hits crafting) or is it different from the elitepacks?

That would mean a dupe is 1/10 of a craftable, standard, mythic (or 1/6 of a legacy).

Kinesia

The root problem is still "huge disappointment", that it's coming from dupes is pretty clear, but other sources are "not getting a masterpiece", etc, etc.

People focus on the dupe thing because it's the most obvious thing, but if Oktagon can do something completely new and different to stop people feeling "huge disappointment" on the spending on a "hard to get" resource then that is fine too. There are probably a LOT of possible solutions, we're all just stuck on the dupe handling part.

gogol666

Kinesia said:

The root problem is still "huge disappointment", that it's coming from dupes is pretty clear, but other sources are "not getting a masterpiece", etc, etc.

People focus on the dupe thing because it's the most obvious thing, but if Oktagon can do something completely new and different to stop people feeling "huge disappointment" on the spending on a "hard to get" resource then that is fine too. There are probably a LOT of possible solutions, we're all just stuck on the dupe handling part.

I agree a lot with this. I feel the problem with getting dupes in elite packs is that you have one shot every so often and thus you accumulate a lot of expectation which are hurting a lot when disappointed. Instead when you get a PP you try the RNG 25 times! and it is more likely something good will happen statistically to compensate for the amount of dupes you are going to get.
Please, help us limit the "huge disappointment" feeling. Even a pity timer that counts how many dupes you get from the elite packs and gives you a guarantee non dupe after a number of them it will be amazing, because you know that another dupe is getting you close to something new. Instead, in the current implementation dupes are only getting you closer to crafting a card which is usually of an older set.

ZW2007-

ZW2007- said:

https://youtu.be/mEprvK39vhQ
.....................

https://youtu.be/zQkJEzaMqTA

DumasAG

Thread can now be closed. No more dupes on Mythic+ packs (it's official, in the release notes).

Mojo

Ive been playing since October.  Every elite pack I have purchased has been a dupe.  The devs should really come clean on the fact that it checks the cards you have before choosing which one you get.  I understand its a money thing but come on.

Mburn7

Mojo said:

Ive been playing since October.  Every elite pack I have purchased has been a dupe.  The devs should really come clean on the fact that it checks the cards you have before choosing which one you get.  I understand its a money thing but come on.

It most definitely (probably) does not do that.  In addition to the fact that that would be incredibly shady, forum people much smarter than I have tracked drop rates and found them to be pretty much what you should expect from a random drop.

That being said, it definitely sucks that you are on the extremely unlikely side of the random spectrum (unless you already have a lot of the cards in the pack, in which case its not as unlucky).  The new policy of non-dupes from the 400 jewel packs is being put in precisely to help deal with disappointment for players like you.

Machine

Wow, I'm actually surprised the 400+ elite pack will not yield dupes in the new update. Thanks for listening!