This forum has outlived its usefulness

JHawkInc

The rockett said:

IceIX said:

broll said:

Daiches said:

Oh look wins based pvp is back in the form of the most suggested fix on these forums by both sides of the argument. Perfect timing with this thread, D3. Excellent trolling of Pennies.

To be honest I credit Discord far more than the forums. Late into the wins based season a dev asked what was so wrong with Wins based and people said all the things that had been on the forums for months and it seemed like news to them...

Ehh, Based on the last few course corrections that we've done with player based concerns, I'd actually toss the ball more towards the forums than Discord or LINE. It's much easier and feels more *real* for all the stakeholders to click a few links and *see* user posts about an issue. Compare that to Discord or LINE where it's usually "People were saying this but I don't remember the exact wording to do a search and find the exact quotes". And things like Hadronics charts stick out and feel more permanent than randomly being linked in Discord and LINE. Even pinning those images isn't great there, since they're very much out of sight out of mind there.

That being said, the "real-time" communications mediums tend to have a stronger effect simply because it's easy to get quick replies going. A back and forth that requires 3-4 replies takes hours on the forums whereas on Discord it'd be 5 minutes.

@IceIX This is why many have requested time and time again for a LIVE Q&A with the Dev team.   There are plenty of applications out there that can do this.  This would be a huge if it could happen and why Discord and Line are much better since it is live and not one wall of text at a time.  

I must say, the update threads we get here where we get responses over the course of the day to clarify things are a bazillion times better than the ones where we get an update dump and silence. We'd be glad to do whatever we can to facilitate something like that.

I bet we could find plenty of people to volunteer to help moderate, have two chats, one for the flow of questions, a second for the Dev response, so when the Devs say something, and a dozen people ask "What about X, Y, and Z?" then a moderator could post it into the second chat so there's less clutter (then the second chat could be copied and pasted at the end, to spread to places like the forums and reddit and Discord/Line and so on).

Though of course, we'd be glad to just show up and be patient asking questions, too. I'm a forum junkie that's regularly relaying information to a Discord of 150+ people, and bringing their questions here, so anything to increase the ease of flow of information is good for a lot of people down the line, you know?

Spudgutter

JHawkInc said:

The rockett said:

IceIX said:

broll said:

Daiches said:

Oh look wins based pvp is back in the form of the most suggested fix on these forums by both sides of the argument. Perfect timing with this thread, D3. Excellent trolling of Pennies.

To be honest I credit Discord far more than the forums. Late into the wins based season a dev asked what was so wrong with Wins based and people said all the things that had been on the forums for months and it seemed like news to them...

Ehh, Based on the last few course corrections that we've done with player based concerns, I'd actually toss the ball more towards the forums than Discord or LINE. It's much easier and feels more *real* for all the stakeholders to click a few links and *see* user posts about an issue. Compare that to Discord or LINE where it's usually "People were saying this but I don't remember the exact wording to do a search and find the exact quotes". And things like Hadronics charts stick out and feel more permanent than randomly being linked in Discord and LINE. Even pinning those images isn't great there, since they're very much out of sight out of mind there.

That being said, the "real-time" communications mediums tend to have a stronger effect simply because it's easy to get quick replies going. A back and forth that requires 3-4 replies takes hours on the forums whereas on Discord it'd be 5 minutes.

@IceIX This is why many have requested time and time again for a LIVE Q&A with the Dev team.   There are plenty of applications out there that can do this.  This would be a huge if it could happen and why Discord and Line are much better since it is live and not one wall of text at a time.  

I must say, the update threads we get here where we get responses over the course of the day to clarify things are a bazillion times better than the ones where we get an update dump and silence. We'd be glad to do whatever we can to facilitate something like that.

I bet we could find plenty of people to volunteer to help moderate, have two chats, one for the flow of questions, a second for the Dev response, so when the Devs say something, and a dozen people ask "What about X, Y, and Z?" then a moderator could post it into the second chat so there's less clutter (then the second chat could be copied and pasted at the end, to spread to places like the forums and reddit and Discord/Line and so on).

Though of course, we'd be glad to just show up and be patient asking questions, too. I'm a forum junkie that's regularly relaying information to a Discord of 150+ people, and bringing their questions here, so anything to increase the ease of flow of information is good for a lot of people down the line, you know?

we've basically already had that.  I think it was Colog who started a thread, with the intention of letting people post questions, back in april.  and Will came in and answered quite a few questions, there were hardly any trolls, and it was pretty cool.  then May came along, he tried again, and got no response.  so for june, he gave up.

i get that it is easy to have a back and forth on line or discord.  i happened to be on discord the night supports were introduced.  there were 4 people from demi on that night, for quite awhile, answering questions.  but i came in halfway through, and scrolling up trying to find the questions to what they were answering was halfway between annoying and impossible.  i gave up, and it was super deflating.  there was no easy record of the interaction, no one on the forums knew it was going on, it blew my mind.  here is this brand new feature and it was just brigby on here answering some questions in the official thread that probably had a ton of traffic the day of, and weeks afterword.  but on discord, you had 4 people interacting with 80 people who were in the right place at the right time

Pr0spect0r

Spudgutter said:

-mega snip-

we've basically already had that.  I think it was Colog who started a thread, with the intention of letting people post questions, back in april.  and Will came in and answered quite a few questions, there were hardly any trolls, and it was pretty cool.  then May came along, he tried again, and got no response.  so for june, he gave up.

i get that it is easy to have a back and forth on line or discord.  i happened to be on discord the night supports were introduced.  there were 4 people from demi on that night, for quite awhile, answering questions.  but i came in halfway through, and scrolling up trying to find the questions to what they were answering was halfway between annoying and impossible.  i gave up, and it was super deflating.  there was no easy record of the interaction, no one on the forums knew it was going on, it blew my mind.  here is this brand new feature and it was just brigby on here answering some questions in the official thread that probably had a ton of traffic the day of, and weeks afterword.  but on discord, you had 4 people interacting with 80 people who were in the right place at the right time

thats why i hate coming here and seeing people go "on discord this was discussed for however long" and im sitting here like DISCORD ISNT YOUR OFFICIAL FORUMS!!!!!!!!!! Bring those people directly over here, hell name the thread "Questions from Discord Regarding whatever"

zeddicus

I agree with a lot of brigby post did not read all posts,not going to.i like the win PvP over points. I sold most five stars that I have received. Not ready. A lot of the changes I felt were decent compromise. Can not ever come close to pleasing everyone. Compromise is key. Thinking of compromise, not what A person wants seems better. That is my opinion I could be wrong. No more comment on this post

randomhero1090

zeddicus said:

I agree with a lot of brigby post did not read all posts,not going to.i like the win PvP over points. I sold most five stars that I have received. Not ready. A lot of the changes I felt were decent compromise. Can not ever come close to pleasing everyone. Compromise is key. Thinking of compromise, not what A person wants seems better. That is my opinion I could be wrong. No more comment on this post

80/20 rule usually applies in situations like this.

Pretty clear the devs want to get newer players to stick.  My guess is this game has quite a falloff in terms of play after say 2 months.  You realize how far behind other players you are and it is extremely discouraging.  If you stick through it, farm 2s, maybe spend some money to grow, you end up getting booted out of CL6 PVP and then realize how far behind you really are.  I was very lucky to get into an established alliance with solid commanders and that helped me still gain rewards without placing t10 every time.

I am sure folks who've been at it over 2 years see these changes and go "dang, where was that when I was in the middle of 3* land?"  But that happens with every game.  Game prices change, in-game offers pop up mid season to allow newer players to catch up, etc etc.  Game devs want people playing and spending all year long in this new era of micro-transactions.

As a newer player, I find the forum very helpful.  Wouldn't want to see the forum go away.

BoyWonder1914

IceIX said:

bluewolf said:

No offense, but I believe that metrics have a lot more to do with the changes that tend to occur than forum opinions.  I also think that the devs have plans that dovetail with some players' thoughts far more than they are being driven by them.

People often forget (because not all games are like this) that nearly all of us actively play the game too on Live. And those that aren't active still poke at at least DDQ and the like. So yeah, quite often our plans come from the same things the player's think for pretty much the same reasons.

Could you elaborate on this? I believe your perception of the game is quite different depending on what level you play it at. Do you have all 4-star rosters? 5-Stars? Play PVP to 900+? 

IceIX

BoyWonder1914 said:

IceIX said:

bluewolf said:

No offense, but I believe that metrics have a lot more to do with the changes that tend to occur than forum opinions.  I also think that the devs have plans that dovetail with some players' thoughts far more than they are being driven by them.

People often forget (because not all games are like this) that nearly all of us actively play the game too on Live. And those that aren't active still poke at at least DDQ and the like. So yeah, quite often our plans come from the same things the player's think for pretty much the same reasons.

Could you elaborate on this? I believe your perception of the game is quite different depending on what level you play it at. Do you have all 4-star rosters? 5-Stars? Play PVP to 900+? 

We're across the board, especially as new people come on board the D3 and Demi teams. I personally am firmly in the 4* transition with multiple champed 3*s and a couple near full covered 4*s. There are others in the offices that are higher, in 4* transition area, and some that are sitting there with 2* rosters. Some people play in public alliances, some in more closed ones. It's all over the place.

The rockett

IceIX said:

BoyWonder1914 said:

IceIX said:

bluewolf said:

No offense, but I believe that metrics have a lot more to do with the changes that tend to occur than forum opinions.  I also think that the devs have plans that dovetail with some players' thoughts far more than they are being driven by them.

People often forget (because not all games are like this) that nearly all of us actively play the game too on Live. And those that aren't active still poke at at least DDQ and the like. So yeah, quite often our plans come from the same things the player's think for pretty much the same reasons.

Could you elaborate on this? I believe your perception of the game is quite different depending on what level you play it at. Do you have all 4-star rosters? 5-Stars? Play PVP to 900+? 

We're across the board, especially as new people come on board the D3 and Demi teams. I personally am firmly in the 4* transition with multiple champed 3*s and a couple near full covered 4*s. There are others in the offices that are higher, in 4* transition area, and some that are sitting there with 2* rosters. Some people play in public alliances, some in more closed ones. It's all over the place.

So No expert 5* players.  

Daiches

IceIX said:

BoyWonder1914 said:

IceIX said:

bluewolf said:

No offense, but I believe that metrics have a lot more to do with the changes that tend to occur than forum opinions.  I also think that the devs have plans that dovetail with some players' thoughts far more than they are being driven by them.

People often forget (because not all games are like this) that nearly all of us actively play the game too on Live. And those that aren't active still poke at at least DDQ and the like. So yeah, quite often our plans come from the same things the player's think for pretty much the same reasons.

Could you elaborate on this? I believe your perception of the game is quite different depending on what level you play it at. Do you have all 4-star rosters? 5-Stars? Play PVP to 900+? 

We're across the board, especially as new people come on board the D3 and Demi teams. I personally am firmly in the 4* transition with multiple champed 3*s and a couple near full covered 4*s. There are others in the offices that are higher, in 4* transition area, and some that are sitting there with 2* rosters. Some people play in public alliances, some in more closed ones. It's all over the place.

It's not ALL over the place. You seem to be lacking an entire tier of experience there..
Do the private alliance players/high 4star rosters play any mode competitively? Be it pvp or PVE? Since a claim was made about having expert players. But this points more to casual play (which is totally understandable and nothing at all bad. I probably wouldn't play my own game competitively either. Very few games entice that).

nycjonny

IceIX said:

BoyWonder1914 said:

IceIX said:

bluewolf said:

No offense, but I believe that metrics have a lot more to do with the changes that tend to occur than forum opinions.  I also think that the devs have plans that dovetail with some players' thoughts far more than they are being driven by them.

People often forget (because not all games are like this) that nearly all of us actively play the game too on Live. And those that aren't active still poke at at least DDQ and the like. So yeah, quite often our plans come from the same things the player's think for pretty much the same reasons.

Could you elaborate on this? I believe your perception of the game is quite different depending on what level you play it at. Do you have all 4-star rosters? 5-Stars? Play PVP to 900+? 

We're across the board, especially as new people come on board the D3 and Demi teams. I personally am firmly in the 4* transition with multiple champed 3*s and a couple near full covered 4*s. There are others in the offices that are higher, in 4* transition area, and some that are sitting there with 2* rosters. Some people play in public alliances, some in more closed ones. It's all over the place.

Can the people who work there give yourselves some five stars? It might feel better to some of us who have spent the most time and/or resources on this game to have someone there understand that level of play.

The rockett

OJSP said:

The rockett said:

So No expert 5* players.  

I have mixed feelings about that. Personally, I’d be happy not to have them compete for rewards in the game  

But, I understand why it’s necessary to have at least one who not only understands the nitty gritty of 5* tier, but is also experiencing it. Testing characters in the sandbox environment is not enough.

And that’s why many people, especially @Colognoisseur, have been asking and begging for them to let us give feedback before stuff goes live.  A lot of issues could have been addressed before release. 

smkspy

@IceIX you definitely need at least one player/tester that has naturally moved beyond fours and into fives to understand just how ridiculously broken and frustrating the transition is for a player at that level. 

IceIX

smkspy said:

@IceIX you definitely need at least one player/tester that has naturally moved beyond fours and into fives to understand just how ridiculously broken and frustrating the transition is for a player at that level. 

We do, but not on Live is all. We have gameplay going on on the QA servers as well, where it's free reign on what people do with their rosters.

Edit: Just to add in answer to "why not just give yourselves 5*s", our Live rosters are all 100% legit, same as everyone else.

Colognoisseur

Checking to see my forehead has healed up from banging it against this particular brick wall.

This is why you do not understand 5* play Live. If all the data you get on 5* play is from QA server play it is nothing like what happens Live.

Which means you make changes from a flawed perspective. 

Havent drawn blood yet so I’m going to stop before they take me away as insane for repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different result

Player1575

@IceIX how can I trust that the team understands the 5* pvp meta and can adjust characters appropriately to make them playable in it when nobody at d3 seems to be a competitive 5* pvp player? 

Jaedenkaal

IceIX said:

smkspy said:

@IceIX you definitely need at least one player/tester that has naturally moved beyond fours and into fives to understand just how ridiculously broken and frustrating the transition is for a player at that level. 

We do, but not on Live is all. We have gameplay going on on the QA servers as well, where it's free reign on what people do with their rosters.

Edit: Just to add in answer to "why not just give yourselves 5*s", our Live rosters are all 100% legit, same as everyone else.

Surely its difficult to experience a full season of 5* PVP with the full 1000 players (or whatever) on a QA server?

Brigby

To be fair, I think @IceIX is only talking about members of D3 Go! I wouldn't be surprised if the designers over at Demiurge have some in the 5-Star realm of play.

The rockett

Brigby said:

To be fair, I think @IceIX is only talking about members of D3 Go! I wouldn't be surprised if the designers over at Demiurge have some in the 5-Star realm of play.

While this is true, I would like to give you a different prespective.  Most know the D3 and Demi are separate coompaines that work on MPQ together, but at the end of the day there is no separating D3/Demi from MPQ. Doesn’t matter which company messes up.  Doesn’t matter if Demi might have some 5* players, D3 doesn’t.  So when people make comments like above it is simple.  Doesn’t matter who you work for, you work for and on MPQ.  So if D3 doesn’t have any 5* players that play daily above a casual pace, it is hard to except that their isn’t a player panel or whatever you want to call it to really explain what 5* player deal with daily.  Plus how hard it is to progress with a 5* level and why hoarding is almost mandatory now.  So like I said, work for D3 or Demi, it doesn’t matter.  Both are MPQ at the end of the day.  

HoundofShadow

It's the players who chose to see D3 and Demiurge as one and chose not to make any distinction between them. Generally, it's okay to see them as one.

However, in this specific scenario, I think there need to be distinction between D3 and Demiurge because we are talking about their personal rosters. 

The "expert player panel" comment was made by Will, so wouldn't it be better to wait for Will to comment instead of jumping on them. 

Besides, when you guys are talking with the devs, don't you ask them which * land are they in? 

Dormammu

Poor Brigby and IceIX. They offer up some insight and this is what happens.

Do you really think the developers aren't aware of the 'Gambit Problem'? If history has taught us anything (see: OML) no one is going to address whether he'll be nerfed, re-balanced, or whatever is going to happen until it happens. Pressing them for information they can't reveal isn't motivating them to come to these forums and giving us what information they are allowed to give.

This thread should be closed. It's strayed off a topic that wasn't worth discussing in the first place.