Balance out Gambit

wymtime

when you take a look at 5* gambit the biggest issue with him is the AP generation and AP steal.  This makes him super powerful and makes him a dominate 5* and he the Meta.  Here are a couple of ideas on how to balance out that power while still keeping him viable in the game.

#1 keep his black a passive.  Instead of just a generation of AP when gambits team makes a match 4 or greater Gambit places 2 charge tiles on the board for red, Purple, Black.  All match 4 or greater damage is increased by X percent.  This still gives Gambit the ability to generate AP with charge tiles but not be totally passive.  You can then remove Gambits block of red and purple. This would make all his powers still strong but not OP

#2 active for 9 Black AP Gambit steals 3 red and 3 purple AP and generates 2 random charge tiles. This gives Gambit a similar ability to what he has now with the AP gain and AP destruction, but makes AP denial available.  

Now on each of these 2 options you can make adjustments based on covers but overall each one would make him less powerful than he is now, but not nerfed to the ground.

Dormammu

If they're going to nerf this guy they better do what they did to his 3-star version and bury him into the unusable category.

That stunt they pulled with the 3-star nerf, while improving the 5-star version, was tinykitty.

wymtime

Dormammu said:

If they're going to nerf this guy they better do what they did to his 3-star version and bury him into the unusable category.

That stunt they pulled with the 3-star nerf, while improving the 5-star version, was tinykitty.

The game defiantly needs a new meta I just hate seeing the nerf to oblivion like they did with X force and sentry in the past

Gold_Dragon

Sigh. 

#1 Gambit is fine. there are certain teams that are “dominant” (really, they’re just “really good”) with him. You can’t just throw him on any team and auto win. 

#2 whining about him being “the meta” is laughable. Not because he isn’t (well made teams with him is), but if he’s nerfed, all you’re really gonna do is complain about the next “new meta”.

just like people used to whine about Carol/Peggy/Blade
and Thanos/BP/filler
and Medusa/Gamora/Grocket
and random teams with OML with only 3 covers
and etc and etc

BlackBoltRocks

Big difference: none of those teams or characters you mentioned generated AP (and destroyed enemy AP) automatically and unconditionally.

Quebbster

Gold_Dragon said:

Sigh. 

#1 Gambit is fine. there are certain teams that are “dominant” (really, they’re just “really good”) with him. You can’t just throw him on any team and auto win. 

Technically true I suppose since Gambit teams sometimes loses. Still, he is much much closer to being a guaranteed win than any other character in the game.

What's particularly troublesome is that Gambit's best counter is another Gambit. The fivestar meta is very stale at the moment because practically everyone is running Gambit, and those who don't have Gambit for whatever reason cannot really compete.

wymtime

Gold_Dragon said:

Sigh. 

#1 Gambit is fine. there are certain teams that are “dominant” (really, they’re just “really good”) with him. You can’t just throw him on any team and auto win. 

#2 whining about him being “the meta” is laughable. Not because he isn’t (well made teams with him is), but if he’s nerfed, all you’re really gonna do is complain about the next “new meta”.

just like people used to whine about Carol/Peggy/Blade
and Thanos/BP/filler
and Medusa/Gamora/Grocket
and random teams with OML with only 3 covers
and etc and etc

Number 1 I have had Gambit championed from almost point one.  His AP generation and destruction make him by far the strongest 5* in the game..
#2 the meta shou;d change every 4-6 months max.  That is done by nerfs, buffs, and power creep from new release.  There ha e been some good new releases with JJ and Okoye but nothing meta shifting.  This is when balance chances need to happen.  Bringing gambit down to earth would allow other 5* to become more. Meta until a 5* power creep gets added.  Having the sam meta for 9 months to a year is bad for the game.
the problem with buffing a classic 5* to god mode to take out gambit is there many classic 5* players might not have championed but have gambit championed.  This would cause more of an uproar than nerf to gambit.

Rogue4Lyfe

Gambit shouldn't be changed in either way. NO WAY.

#1 His Black (Stacked Deck) is the only reason that makes Gambit BEST OF THE BEST. You just need to avoid Red and Purple, that's it.
#2 He's mah bae
#3 If you change Black into one of your 2 options, he is just gonna be the copy of his 3* character. (Even though 3* Gambit is not a bad character).
#4 9 Black AP for just 6 AP and charge tiles is not a good idea. 

Jarvind

Gold_Dragon said:

Sigh. 

#1 Gambit is fine. there are certain teams that are “dominant” (really, they’re just “really good”) with him. You can’t just throw him on any team and auto win. 

#2 whining about him being “the meta” is laughable. Not because he isn’t (well made teams with him is), but if he’s nerfed, all you’re really gonna do is complain about the next “new meta”.

just like people used to whine about Carol/Peggy/Blade
and Thanos/BP/filler
and Medusa/Gamora/Grocket
and random teams with OML with only 3 covers
and etc and etc

I'm not normally one to dump on people, but man. You are just utterly, hilariously wrong. I'm guessing you either aren't in 5* territory, or just acquired him recently and don't want him nerfed before you've had your fun.

The problem isn't just that he's overused. Panther/Thanos was overused, but I don't recall a whole lot of actual cries for a nerf, except maybe early on. The problem with Gambit is that he changes the entire game. His red does comically huge damage for minimal AP. His purple makes him largely invulnerable to any power that uses special tiles, i.e. like half the powers in the game. His black eliminates the need to gather AP for either, which you may recognize as being the mechanic the entire game is based around.

If you truly play in a vacuum and don't care at all about ranking, I guess he's fine. If you want to occasionally not get crushed, he's awful and desperately needs to be changed.

Lest I be accused of simply "whining" without proffering some sort of alternative, here you go:

Black allows other characters to use red and purple powers, but now has a 33.3% chance to either generate 2 red AP, generate 2 purple AP, or destroy 2 enemy AP in a random color. Boom, fixed.

Gold_Dragon

Sigh. 

How can Gambit “change the entire game” when he doesn’t = win on every team? You can’t just throw Gambit on every team and win. You mostly see Gambit with BB (a fully champed one) SS, and Gladiathor. Maybe once in a while with OML. But when he’s not with BB or SS, he’s just a pretty target that you can wreck quite easily if you simply alter your strategy.

oh no. You mean I actually have to come up with a strategy to beat a team with Gambit on it other than “let’s race to get my powers off first!”? Perish the thought.

of all the 5*s he’s among the most predictable. Hes 3/5/5. You can run your own Gambit and simply wait for him to fire his off his powers and then crush him. Or run a 5* Hawk team and wait for him to fire off his purple and then go for your CD combos. Or just run AA. Or just run IW Cap. Gambit is not a problem. With BB, he’s really good. And that’s fine. [b]They[/b] are the meta. Not Gambit. With a half-life Gladiathor/GS I run through most Gambit teams. Gambit/BB are my problem. But I’m sure I’ll be able to come up with something, the more 5*s I champ 

Gold_Dragon

You wanna know the MAIN reason people are (still) calling for a nerf of Gambit? It’s because they’re still not over OML nerf. And not because he got nerfed. But the REASONING of it as well. So now, if a team/character gets too much use, the call for nerf goes out. 

Quebbster

Gold_Dragon said:

Sigh. 

How can Gambit “change the entire game” when he doesn’t = win on every team? You can’t just throw Gambit on every team and win. You mostly see Gambit with BB (a fully champed one) SS, and Gladiathor. Maybe once in a while with OML. But when he’s not with BB or SS, he’s just a pretty target that you can wreck quite easily if you simply alter your strategy.

oh no. You mean I actually have to come up with a strategy to beat a team with Gambit on it other than “let’s race to get my powers off first!”? Perish the thought.

of all the 5*s he’s among the most predictable. Hes 3/5/5. You can run your own Gambit and simply wait for him to fire his off his powers and then crush him. Or run a 5* Hawk team and wait for him to fire off his purple and then go for your CD combos. Or just run AA. Or just run IW Cap. Gambit is not a problem. With BB, he’s really good. And that’s fine. [b]They[/b] are the meta. Not Gambit. With a half-life Gladiathor/GS I run through most Gambit teams. Gambit/BB are my problem. But I’m sure I’ll be able to come up with something, the more 5*s I champ 

The problem is still that you need to have Gambit to beat Gambit. Taking on a Gambit team without Gambit yourself is absolutely doable, but it is risky since you know he will fire his Powers eventually since he generates AP for them without making matches.

But by all means, let us look at your other suggestions for counters and see how they do:

Hawkeye - Gambit overwrites his countdowns with his Purple. Hawkeye can't do much after that.

Archangel - yes, he can deny one color. If he denies Purple, Gambit kills him with his red spam. If he denies red, Gambit overwrites the countdown with Purple.

IW Cap - same problem there.

I rarely see Gambolt in PvP anymore, it's far too risky to bring Bolt against an opposing Gambit unless Bolt is high level (about 500). Thor is by far the most common pairing. Sometimes it's Thanos. On occassion I have seen Daredevil too, but he's less common than Bolt. Lately some Ghost Rider and Jessica Jones teams have popped up too.

But the problem is still that if you have Gambit, you will need to play him practically all the time. If you don't have Gambit, you need to beat Gambit teams reliably, and that is not Always an easy task.

Quebbster

BlackBoltRocks said:

@Quebbster save your breath. Some people just can't be reasoned with.

I am bored at work, I have nothing better to do anyway.

BlackBoltRocks

Quebbster said:

BlackBoltRocks said:

@Quebbster save your breath. Some people just can't be reasoned with.

I am bored at work, I have nothing better to do anyway.

Heh fair enough.

Jexman

Is it worth leveling a 2-2-5 Gambit? 

Quebbster

Jexman said:

Is it worth leveling a 2-2-5 Gambit? 

Maybe to 360 like your Surfer and OML, that shouldn't mess up your MMR. You won't deal much damage with red I Think, but Purple has some utility at least. With 5 black covers you should be able to use it often.

thedarkphoenix

Just create a character hard counters him for pvp.

A character that counters when a charged tile is matched or destroyed or created. One that either drains AP in a random color  (like 2 per tile charged) or does damage (X for any time a charged tile is matched or destroyed and X when a charged tile is created)

Make that character a 5 with Decent health and BAM the meta has shifted gambit is still strong and people have to think on both Offense and defense.

Jexman

Thanks Quebbster, that's what I'll do. I had enough ISO to take him to 300 right away. I figure if this game is gonna burn out soon, I may as well have some fun playing the 5 stars first.

AlexNapalm

thedarkphoenix said:

Just create a character hard counters him for pvp.

A character that counters when a charged tile is matched or destroyed or created. One that either drains AP in a random color  (like 2 per tile charged) or does damage (X for any time a charged tile is matched or destroyed and X when a charged tile is created)

Make that character a 5 with Decent health and BAM the meta has shifted gambit is still strong and people have to think on both Offense and defense.

That theoretical character sounds like they'd make an awesome teammate for Gambit. 

Daredevil217

Gold_Dragon said:

You wanna know the MAIN reason people are (still) calling for a nerf of Gambit? It’s because they’re still not over OML nerf. And not because he got nerfed. But the REASONING of it as well. So now, if a team/character gets too much use, the call for nerf goes out. 

Whoever is flagging every one of this guy’s posts as spam needs to quit. Just because you disagree, it does not mean he should be flagged. I hate when people abuse this system and I see it way too often for my liking.

Jarvind said:

The problem isn't just that he's overused. Panther/Thanos was overused, but I don't recall a whole lot of actual cries for a nerf, except maybe early on.

I don’t know how long you’ve been playing, but there were absolutely cries for a nerf. I remember a huge thread about the game becoming Marvel Tapping Quest because of how fast he cleared nodes and how ridiculously easy he made the game. Grocket as well got plenty of calls for a nerf for the longest time and they are STILL the meta in the 4* tier today.  Over time, the cries died down. Gambit’s have as well though they aren’t completely gone as evidenced by his thread. 

ZeroKarma

Daredevil217 said:

Gold_Dragon said:

You wanna know the MAIN reason people are (still) calling for a nerf of Gambit? It’s because they’re still not over OML nerf. And not because he got nerfed. But the REASONING of it as well. So now, if a team/character gets too much use, the call for nerf goes out. 

Whoever is flagging every one of this guy’s posts as spam needs to quit. Just because you disagree, it does not mean he should be flagged. I hate when people abuse this system and I see it way too often for my liking.

Jarvind said:

The problem isn't just that he's overused. Panther/Thanos was overused, but I don't recall a whole lot of actual cries for a nerf, except maybe early on.

I don’t know how long you’ve been playing, but there were absolutely cries for a nerf. I remember a huge thread about the game becoming Marvel Tapping Quest because of how fast he cleared nodes and how ridiculously easy he made the game. Grocket as well got plenty of calls for a nerf for the longest time and they are STILL the meta in the 4* tier today.  Over time, the cries died down. Gambit’s have as well though they aren’t completely gone as evidenced by his thread. 

He likely got flagged because people were giving him reasoned discussion points on the need for a Gambit nerf and he basically called them whiny babies that aren't over OML's nerf. They're completely different beasts and most of us are well aware of that. 

As people have stated over and over, Panthos was never unbeatable. I found the best kryptonite for that team was Bolt/Surfer, an old school solution to the problem that was nearly always successful even when fighting Panthos at higher levels. You could try that team against Gamthor/Thorbit. Please do, and let me know how many times you win. The same honestly goes for Panthos against that duo. It gets melted pretty quickly, even if you get Panther in front of every red blast. 

The best team that I found was Strange and Thanos, because they could reliably shut down Gambit's powers with Infinite Power and Strange stun. It consumes a lot of health packs, is slow, and is guaranteed to get you slaughtered on defense. That's problematic. 

Gambit is bad for the game, has been for a long time, but the response by the playerbase of a potential nerf is feared by the decision makers after what happened with OML, and given the amount of money people poured into getting him champed and adding levels. He has effectively stalled out the game and forced you to view new characters by two specific criteria:

1. Does the character rely on purple and red a la IW Captain America? If yes, please place directly in garbage bin. 

2. Does the character mesh well with Gambit? If no, please place directly in garbage bin. 

There isn't much else to be said about that. I was looking at Okoye and thinking how much fun she would be with 5* Peter Parker, triggering her black multiple times with his green, only to realize that multi-colored combos are exceptionally difficult against a character that passively accelerates himself AND steals AP that you might need for said combo. The more moving pieces there are and the longer the setup, the more likely it just won't make a dent in the meta. THAT IS NOT GOOD. It's stale as all get-out.