DOM Cards That Need Buffs

EDHdad

Not from Dominaria, but Goring Ceratops is another face palm worthy card.  For 21 mana you get a 5/6 which gives other creatures double strike when it attacks.  But since it costs 21 mana, it's probably the last creature you cast.  So when the creatures attack, you get no buff on creature #1, no buff on creature #2 and then this thing attacks and it gives the creatures which already attacked double strike until end of turn.  Then they lose double strike.  So what was the point of the stupid Goring Ceratops?

It would be vastly improved if its text simply read "whenever your other creatures attack, they gain double strike until the end of turn".  Then, it would have an impact on the board when it comes into play, and it wouldn't matter which order the cards entered the battlefield.  It would be awesome to have some way to reliably give your other creatures double strike, but this card as it is is unlikely to help.

Bil

EDHdad said:

Karn's Temporal Sundering is a disaster.  I can bounce a creature for as little as 4, achieve non-targeted bounce for 5, bounce it to the top of the library for 6, with just commons and uncommons.  For 10, I can bounce a creature with Harbinger of the Tides and make it cost 6 more.  Or for 21, I can bounce nearly every dang thing the opponent controls, if I had a River's Rebuke.  Which I don't.  And I'm pretty salty about that.

But with Karn's Temporal Sundering, I have to pay 12.  And I have to have a Legendary Creature in play.  And I have to target.  Then I get to take an extra swap.  Which might get me some of the 8 extra mana I had to pay if I had just used Unsummon.

As a larger issue, gaining an extra swap is not even slightly in the same league as taking an extra turn.  With an extra turn, I would have an extra draw step, an extra attack step, and an extra upkeep step for things that trigger at the beginning of the turn.  With an extra swap, I might get 3 to 6 extra mana, and maybe one extra loyalty.  This is not a Mythic level card.  If it was a common, I wouldn't even play it except to get Spell Mastery.

   Haphazard is just the worst card ingame as long as it isnt fixed ....
   However, karn's temporal sundering is just amazing. Coupled with the right cards you can get several extra swaps in a single turn.
   Besides, Extra swaps are already good for business, but the power of this card is that you can choose precisely when you get that extra swap. You just reach another level of control that is worth much more than a single gem swap.

Mburn7

EDHdad said:

Not from Dominaria, but Goring Ceratops is another face palm worthy card.  For 21 mana you get a 5/6 which gives other creatures double strike when it attacks.  But since it costs 21 mana, it's probably the last creature you cast.  So when the creatures attack, you get no buff on creature #1, no buff on creature #2 and then this thing attacks and it gives the creatures which already attacked double strike until end of turn.  Then they lose double strike.  So what was the point of the stupid Goring Ceratops?

It would be vastly improved if its text simply read "whenever your other creatures attack, they gain double strike until the end of turn".  Then, it would have an impact on the board when it comes into play, and it wouldn't matter which order the cards entered the battlefield.  It would be awesome to have some way to reliably give your other creatures double strike, but this card as it is is unlikely to help.

Originally, all cards that read "when this creature attacks" triggered at the same time at the start of combat.  We never got an explanation as to why it was changed despite it negatively effecting a ton of cards that were designed for simultaneous triggers.

A simple solution is to use something that gives it defender or reach.  Auto puts it in the first slot.

EDHdad

I also agree with everyone who says that Traxos is unplayable jank.  If you want to make it playable, at least give it something like reach or defender or vigilance or berserker or something.  Or give it power and toughness so huge that it makes up for the hoops you have to jump through to play it.

EDHdad

Bil said:

 the power of this card is that you can choose precisely when you get that extra swap. You just reach another level of control that is worth much more than a single gem swap.

Just play a freaking 4 mana common and you won't need the extra swap.

Anyone who wants this card, I'll be happy to trade it for an Etali.

wereotter

EDHdad said:

Not from Dominaria, but Goring Ceratops is another face palm worthy card.  For 21 mana you get a 5/6 which gives other creatures double strike when it attacks.  But since it costs 21 mana, it's probably the last creature you cast.  So when the creatures attack, you get no buff on creature #1, no buff on creature #2 and then this thing attacks and it gives the creatures which already attacked double strike until end of turn.  Then they lose double strike.  So what was the point of the stupid Goring Ceratops?

It would be vastly improved if its text simply read "whenever your other creatures attack, they gain double strike until the end of turn".  Then, it would have an impact on the board when it comes into play, and it wouldn't matter which order the cards entered the battlefield.  It would be awesome to have some way to reliably give your other creatures double strike, but this card as it is is unlikely to help.

This is an issue with a whole slew of cards. Playing pirates, you're at a disadvantage if you don't draw and cast Captain Lannery Storm before any other pirates, something that could be fixed by giving you a treasure at the start of combat instead of when she attacks. Counsul's Lieutenant has a similar problem with it's +1/+1 to other attacking creatures.

Wolf of Devil's Breach, which pretty powerful, can't save your earlier attackers from a creature with a defensive stance if it's not in the first creature slot. Similar problem with Warkite Marauder and it's -10/-0

Bil

EDHdad said:

Bil said:

 the power of this card is that you can choose precisely when you get that extra swap. You just reach another level of control that is worth much more than a single gem swap.

Just play a freaking 4 mana common and you won't need the extra swap.

Anyone who wants this card, I'll be happy to trade it for an Etali.

   I think you are totally missing the point of this card but if you just want a creature bounce, then you are right, you can get cheaper cards. I you want more control of your own deck then you have the right card here. 
  I'm using it in diferent deck and i never felt disappointed, and i also had those 4 mana commons you are talking about. 
   As a sidenote, the 4 mana bounces dont destroy the creature if hand is full and they dont work if the oponent has more than 5 cards in hand. Some bounces do, but only at 5 or 6 mana if I'm not confused.

EDHdad

OK.  So how much would you pay for the following card?

Karn's Extra Swap

Blue Mythic

Legendary Spell

Take an extra swap.  Can only be cast if you control a Legendary permanent.

****

Personally, I wouldn't even put that into my deck.

Karn's Temporal Sundering is just that card stapled on to a conditional, weaker version of Expel from Orazca, an uncommon, which costs 6.  One advantage of it costing 6 is that you have a good chance of casting it in one swipe, even if you hadn't previously charged it.

Now suppose Expel from Orazca was a legendary spell which required you to control a legendary creature to cast.  Would you even put it in your deck?

bk1234

EDHdad said:

OK.  So how much would you pay for the following card?

Karn's Extra Swap

Blue Mythic

Legendary Spell

Take an extra swap.  Can only be cast if you control a Legendary permanent.

****

Personally, I wouldn't even put that into my deck.

Karn's Temporal Sundering is just that card stapled on to a conditional, weaker version of Expel from Orazca, an uncommon, which costs 6.  One advantage of it costing 6 is that you have a good chance of casting it in one swipe, even if you hadn't previously charged it.

Now suppose Expel from Orazca was a legendary spell which required you to control a legendary creature to cast.  Would you even put it in your deck?

I'm actually playing it in all of my historic decks. It combos really well with the new Standard. 

Mburn7

bken1234 said:

EDHdad said:

OK.  So how much would you pay for the following card?

Karn's Extra Swap

Blue Mythic

Legendary Spell

Take an extra swap.  Can only be cast if you control a Legendary permanent.

****

Personally, I wouldn't even put that into my deck.

Karn's Temporal Sundering is just that card stapled on to a conditional, weaker version of Expel from Orazca, an uncommon, which costs 6.  One advantage of it costing 6 is that you have a good chance of casting it in one swipe, even if you hadn't previously charged it.

Now suppose Expel from Orazca was a legendary spell which required you to control a legendary creature to cast.  Would you even put it in your deck?

I'm actually playing it in all of my historic decks. It combos really well with the new Standard. 

Did they fix the bug of legendary spells not triggering historic?

EDHdad

OK.  I'm seeing in another thread where you can cheat it into play using Jodha and Jhoira, neither of which I currently have.  I suppose if I owned Omniscience, I'd think it was a swell card as well.

Still, the answer to "how much would you pay to cast this card" seems to remain "nothing".

rafalele

Mburn7 said:

bken1234 said:

EDHdad said:

OK.  So how much would you pay for the following card?

Karn's Extra Swap

Blue Mythic

Legendary Spell

Take an extra swap.  Can only be cast if you control a Legendary permanent.

****

Personally, I wouldn't even put that into my deck.

Karn's Temporal Sundering is just that card stapled on to a conditional, weaker version of Expel from Orazca, an uncommon, which costs 6.  One advantage of it costing 6 is that you have a good chance of casting it in one swipe, even if you hadn't previously charged it.

Now suppose Expel from Orazca was a legendary spell which required you to control a legendary creature to cast.  Would you even put it in your deck?

I'm actually playing it in all of my historic decks. It combos really well with the new Standard. 

Did they fix the bug of legendary spells not triggering historic?

No, they did not.

Gun Bunny

Brakkis said:

Squee, the Useless - Let him buff himself when he returns if anything.

The Memorials - They need their cost reduced a bit.

Traxos, Scourge of Mythics - Give this guy something... anything.

Paper Traxos has trample. Not sure why that didn't make it. Compare him to any of the other 12 mana mythic bombs like Gisela, or Geier Reach Bandit. Hell, I'd play bristling hydra instead of Traxos, Turd of Kroog.

wereotter

Gun Bunny said:

Brakkis said:

Squee, the Useless - Let him buff himself when he returns if anything.

The Memorials - They need their cost reduced a bit.

Traxos, Scourge of Mythics - Give this guy something... anything.

Paper Traxos has trample. Not sure why that didn't make it. Compare him to any of the other 12 mana mythic bombs like Gisela, or Geier Reach Bandit. Hell, I'd play bristling hydra instead of Traxos, Turd of Kroog.

Also his paper card is only a rare. This creature seems like a wasted mythic slot, and no reason exists to have him upshifted in rarity.

Gun Bunny

And is it just me, or does Rishadan Port not seem to work at all? I triggered it on black vs vraska, and she got 6 Mana from a black match the following turn.

wereotter

Gun Bunny said:

And is it just me, or does Rishadan Port not seem to work at all? I triggered it on black vs vraska, and she got 6 Mana from a black match the following turn.

Was it a match 4? Because that should be 6 mana.

Gun Bunny

wereotter said:

Gun Bunny said:

And is it just me, or does Rishadan Port not seem to work at all? I triggered it on black vs vraska, and she got 6 Mana from a black match the following turn.

Was it a match 4? Because that should be 6 mana.

Match three, still investigating

Aeroplane

Tilwin90 said:

So where to start? Boy oh boy... This set has some superb hits and some awful misses. Gonna focus on mythics and masterpieces I own really... cause I feel I had suhc a bad luck with them I have to complain.

Darigaaz Reincarnated - really, you think anyone will wait so much for it to "return"? Sure, it keeps coming back, but trust me when I say it's so slow you're not going to bother with it. I guess some silver players might like this, but for me it's too little.
Haphazard Bombardment - so cool on paper, so awful in practice. It's not enough that it costs a fortune (17 mana... really?!), but it only starts taking effect the next turn. Did I mention it can target your own supports... including itself?! Just BAD!
Mishra's Self Replicator - could end up getting good, but I still haven't really found a way to "break" it in any way. If it had trample it would be a slightly different story.
Torgaar, Famine Incarnate - another "cool in theory, awful in practice" card. Losing reinforcements means you are practically resetting your side of the board big time. If anyone finds some proper use for this, let me know.
Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar - bad bad bad. Land pumps are useless in MTGPQ. Nobody is going to make a land-centric deck only to boost Multani by +2/+2 for each land. The reach won't make it survive long either. And it's a measley 3/3 to begin with. Ugh...
Traxos, Scourge of Kroog - the card I HATE from this set. Not only did I drop it waaaay to often than I'm supposed to, but the level of "bad" is impossible to describe. An 8/8 for 12 is not something that impressive, and if you add the "can't attack" clause on it with no other keywords, it's plain awful. Not worth the trouble really. Somebody compared it with the Mage-Ring Giant (or however that card from Origins is called), but that card could actually be occasionally good. 

Pernicious Deed - I have this as my only masterpiece, and I have to say it is probably the most useless. I played with it a few times, hurt myself way too much with it, then stopped using it. I get the idea of symmetry, but the cost is absurd and not having an option to actually pop it can sometimes hurt you really really badly! Stay away from it!

Torgaar is not bad in a token deck. One creature deck , return him from the graveyard with Rebirth , gather the pack and growing rites... Torgaar also doesn't lose his reinforcements so he ramps his small cannon with himself. Thopters are the best with Karn. Slimefoot(saps) and vamp tokens work also. Path of discovery will tone down the loss of reinforcements  ,again, with Karn as he rarely matches with discovery.

Darigaaz is also a graveyard bonus with gather the pack and grow rites. He'll keep bringing himself out if you keep filling the graveyard as his support doesn't disappear. Great with Karn as he gives 3  (+2) bonuses for being tricolor

Rebirth, gather the pack and growing rites is a great combo.

DumasAG

Aeroplane said:

Tilwin90 said:

So where to start? Boy oh boy... This set has some superb hits and some awful misses. Gonna focus on mythics and masterpieces I own really... cause I feel I had suhc a bad luck with them I have to complain.

Darigaaz Reincarnated - really, you think anyone will wait so much for it to "return"? Sure, it keeps coming back, but trust me when I say it's so slow you're not going to bother with it. I guess some silver players might like this, but for me it's too little.
Haphazard Bombardment - so cool on paper, so awful in practice. It's not enough that it costs a fortune (17 mana... really?!), but it only starts taking effect the next turn. Did I mention it can target your own supports... including itself?! Just BAD!
Mishra's Self Replicator - could end up getting good, but I still haven't really found a way to "break" it in any way. If it had trample it would be a slightly different story.
Torgaar, Famine Incarnate - another "cool in theory, awful in practice" card. Losing reinforcements means you are practically resetting your side of the board big time. If anyone finds some proper use for this, let me know.
Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar - bad bad bad. Land pumps are useless in MTGPQ. Nobody is going to make a land-centric deck only to boost Multani by +2/+2 for each land. The reach won't make it survive long either. And it's a measley 3/3 to begin with. Ugh...
Traxos, Scourge of Kroog - the card I HATE from this set. Not only did I drop it waaaay to often than I'm supposed to, but the level of "bad" is impossible to describe. An 8/8 for 12 is not something that impressive, and if you add the "can't attack" clause on it with no other keywords, it's plain awful. Not worth the trouble really. Somebody compared it with the Mage-Ring Giant (or however that card from Origins is called), but that card could actually be occasionally good. 

Pernicious Deed - I have this as my only masterpiece, and I have to say it is probably the most useless. I played with it a few times, hurt myself way too much with it, then stopped using it. I get the idea of symmetry, but the cost is absurd and not having an option to actually pop it can sometimes hurt you really really badly! Stay away from it!

Torgaar is not bad in a token deck. One creature deck , return him from the graveyard with Rebirth , gather the pack and growing rites... Torgaar also doesn't lose his reinforcements so he ramps his small cannon with himself. Thopters are the best with Karn. Slimefoot(saps) and vamp tokens work also. Path of discovery will tone down the loss of reinforcements  ,again, with Karn as he rarely matches with discovery.

Darigaaz is also a graveyard bonus with gather the pack and grow rites. He'll keep bringing himself out if you keep filling the graveyard as his support doesn't disappear. Great with Karn as he gives 3  (+2) bonuses for being tricolor

Rebirth, gather the pack and growing rites is a great combo.

Wait a minute, I think I wasn't reading Dari right. He combos with Gather the Pack? Well, I obviously need to go test this immediately, I had fully written him off as a viable but boring beater.

Edit: Ok, after testing, still only middling as a gather target since going to grave off gather doesn't create the support and the support only brings one Dari out at a time. Might actually fit best in Lili3 where you can just sac him, get the support, bring it back out as a buffed hasty zombie, and profit.

Tilwin90

Rebirth combos ridiculously with gather and rites... It's going to be the most broken combo maybe surpassing even the dominance deploy used to have...
Sadly they don't combo with dari until you get the token onto the battlefield which triggers on dari dying (not being discarded or milled). Even then I would need to test if you get all copies onto the battlefield which I seriously doubt...