Karn for Crystals?

FindingHeart8

So Karn has been in and out of the Vault for over a month now.  We have 2 new planeswalkers for purchase-only heading in.  When is Karn going to be available for crystals?

And how much is he going to cost in crystals?  With the nerfed lotus I wouldn't spend over 850 on him (same price as Bolas, who in my opinion was a much better package deal)

JopeX37

It'd be nice if they could communicate more of this kind of stuff to us.  I get that new set release dates can't be easily pinpointed, but planeswalker release dates should not face the same type of constraints.  It would be really nice to be able to plan to save the right amount of crystals for the right date.  I don't think they realize how frustrating this kind of unpredictability is for the player base.

FindingHeart8

JopeX37 said:

It'd be nice if they could communicate more of this kind of stuff to us.  I get that new set release dates can't be easily pinpointed, but planeswalker release dates should not face the same type of constraints.  It would be really nice to be able to plan to save the right amount of crystals for the right date.  I don't think they realize how frustrating this kind of unpredictability is for the player base.

Agreed.  Part of Hibernum's downfall was keeping us in the dark to the point of neglect.  Octagon has been really good at listening to the player base and following through sooner or later, but little things even as small as "hey guys, we're working on this!" go so much further than silence.

Mburn7

When he was first released for cash they stated that he would take longer to hit the vault than usual, so probably 2-3 months from initial release instead of the usual 1-2.  So far there is no reason to think they are deviating from this.

And based on the leveling costs, I predict he will cost the same as Bolas, whatever that was.

@FindingHeart8 what does the lotus nerf have to do with whether or not you want to get Karn?  That's like saying you only got Bolas for Unesh, not because he's one of the strongest walkers released to date.

I really like how Oktagon gives a free rare with each new walker, that is a wonderful surprise and bonus that they really don't have to do.  I don't understand why people are already taking it for granted and acting like that is the real value of purchasing a walker (for crystals, I'm not trying to rehash the cash debate)

Coilbox

Mburn7 said:

When he was first released for cash they stated that he would take longer to hit the vault than usual, so probably 2-3 months from initial release instead of the usual 1-2.  So far there is no reason to think they are deviating from this.

And based on the leveling costs, I predict he will cost the same as Bolas, whatever that was.

@FindingHeart8 what does the lotus nerf have to do with whether or not you want to get Karn?  That's like saying you only got Bolas for Unesh, not because he's one of the strongest walkers released to date.

I really like how Oktagon gives a free rare with each new walker, that is a wonderful surprise and bonus that they really don't have to do.  I don't understand why people are already taking it for granted and acting like that is the real value of purchasing a walker (for crystals, I'm not trying to rehash the cash debate)

I suposse Karn should be a bit cheaper in crystals than Bolas...? 

Bolas came bundled with 3 color boosters (black/red/blue) and a mythic card... 
Karn comes with a (polemic nerfed) rare, so... Maybe it will cost less than Bolas?

Maybe the cards that the PW comes with shouldnt be what makes decide if you get it or not, just the PW itself. But i guess the value of the whole bundle (color boosters+mythic VS unplayable rare card after nerf) might make a difference in the price. Also, the Karn bundle was cheaper than the Bolas bundle back in the day (cash).

span_argoman

Didn't the Karn bundle only leave the Vault  less than 2 weeks ago? I remember it still being around until the week before Dominaria's release.

That was when people were complaining about the Gilded Lotus nerf and someone had commented that at least the bundle shows the updated information.

Brakkis

span_argoman said:

Didn't the Karn bundle only leave the Vault  less than 2 weeks ago? I remember it still being around until the week before Dominaria's release.

That was when people were complaining about the Gilded Lotus nerf and someone had commented that at least the bundle shows the updated information.

I believe that was the second time he was in the vault. Not certain on that since I don't do cash purchases but I feel like he left that vault and then came back the week before Dominaria dropped.

Mburn7

Brakkis said:

span_argoman said:

Didn't the Karn bundle only leave the Vault  less than 2 weeks ago? I remember it still being around until the week before Dominaria's release.

That was when people were complaining about the Gilded Lotus nerf and someone had commented that at least the bundle shows the updated information.

I believe that was the second time he was in the vault. Not certain on that since I don't do cash purchases but I feel like he left that vault and then came back the week before Dominaria dropped.

I don't think he ever left, except maybe for a day or 2 while they updated the Lotus.  But then again, I caved and bought him week 1, so I wasn't really looking for him.

Coilbox said:

Mburn7 said:

When he was first released for cash they stated that he would take longer to hit the vault than usual, so probably 2-3 months from initial release instead of the usual 1-2.  So far there is no reason to think they are deviating from this.

And based on the leveling costs, I predict he will cost the same as Bolas, whatever that was.

@FindingHeart8 what does the lotus nerf have to do with whether or not you want to get Karn?  That's like saying you only got Bolas for Unesh, not because he's one of the strongest walkers released to date.

I really like how Oktagon gives a free rare with each new walker, that is a wonderful surprise and bonus that they really don't have to do.  I don't understand why people are already taking it for granted and acting like that is the real value of purchasing a walker (for crystals, I'm not trying to rehash the cash debate)

I suposse Karn should be a bit cheaper in crystals than Bolas...? 

Bolas came bundled with 3 color boosters (black/red/blue) and a mythic card... 
Karn comes with a (polemic nerfed) rare, so... Maybe it will cost less than Bolas?

Maybe the cards that the PW comes with shouldnt be what makes decide if you get it or not, just the PW itself. But i guess the value of the whole bundle (color boosters+mythic VS unplayable rare card after nerf) might make a difference in the price. Also, the Karn bundle was cheaper than the Bolas bundle back in the day (cash).

The crystal cost of a planeswalker in the vault goes by how many colors it has, not anything else (its been that way since some point during Kaladesh when they dropped Kioras cost to match the other dual-colors and increased the Origins walkers costs to match the other mono-colors)

Leveling Rune costs are also consistent based on how many colors, and have always been that way.

Karn is tricky to predict since he is technically a 5-color walker who sometimes acts like a mono- or dual- colored walker.  But since his rune leveling cost is the same as Bolas', it would appear the devs are valuing him like a 3-color walker and will price him accordingly.  This is all speculation, of course, but I'm reasonably confident in the logic of it.

Again, the cards included with the planeswalker have nothing to do with the crystal cost (nor should they, in my opinion)

FindingHeart8

Mburn7 said:

When he was first released for cash they stated that he would take longer to hit the vault than usual, so probably 2-3 months from initial release instead of the usual 1-2.  So far there is no reason to think they are deviating from this.

And based on the leveling costs, I predict he will cost the same as Bolas, whatever that was.

@FindingHeart8 what does the lotus nerf have to do with whether or not you want to get Karn?  That's like saying you only got Bolas for Unesh, not because he's one of the strongest walkers released to date.

I really like how Oktagon gives a free rare with each new walker, that is a wonderful surprise and bonus that they really don't have to do.  I don't understand why people are already taking it for granted and acting like that is the real value of purchasing a walker (for crystals, I'm not trying to rehash the cash debate)

I am grateful of the free rare that comes along with the planeswalker.  I'm just a bit wary right now of Octagon right now in regards to this specific package; as mentioned many times in previous threads, the inclusion of the original gilded lotus (quite powerful) which then conveniently was nerfed a few weeks after.  I almost bought the package (glad I didn't) but was angry enough to stick up for people who did.  Many of them made pledges to never make another mtgpq purchase; I can't say whether they'll follow through on that or not, but it certainly speaks to the dissatisfaction of the player base regarding this product.

As someone who has defended Octagon's choices many times...I have to admit that our relationship with Octagon has been a rollercoaster.  They're really good to us most of the time, and results strongly suggest they do listen to the player base.  But then they go around and do things which almost appear deceptive and ethically questionable from a business perspective (ex: Ixalan release just before Rivals, Gilded Lotus, Delay on releasing Karn, lack of communication and explanation as to why they do these things).

I don't want to think ill of Octagon, and as Karn is already a (justifiably) sensitive subject to many players...I want to know when he is going to hit the Vault and why he is taking so much longer than other planeswalkers to become available for anything besides cash.  Is this the start of a new trend, where we will have to wait 1/4 to half a year to have access to a planeswalker unless we're willing to pay whatever price Octagon sets?  Will we see a day where there are planeswalkers only available to purchase, who will never hit the vault?  I certainly hope not, but these are common business practices that (absent player backlash) could become a reality; and when I see things like the guilded lotus nerf, it makes me ponder these things.

So I'm hoping if enough players jump on this boat that we can get a few answers, and hopefully have a better perspective on things to come and renewed faith in our beloved developer

Mburn7

FindingHeart8 said:

Mburn7 said:

When he was first released for cash they stated that he would take longer to hit the vault than usual, so probably 2-3 months from initial release instead of the usual 1-2.  So far there is no reason to think they are deviating from this.

And based on the leveling costs, I predict he will cost the same as Bolas, whatever that was.

@FindingHeart8 what does the lotus nerf have to do with whether or not you want to get Karn?  That's like saying you only got Bolas for Unesh, not because he's one of the strongest walkers released to date.

I really like how Oktagon gives a free rare with each new walker, that is a wonderful surprise and bonus that they really don't have to do.  I don't understand why people are already taking it for granted and acting like that is the real value of purchasing a walker (for crystals, I'm not trying to rehash the cash debate)

I want to know when he is going to hit the Vault and why he is taking so much longer than other planeswalkers to become available for anything besides cash.  Is this the start of a new trend, where we will have to wait 1/4 to half a year to have access to a planeswalker unless we're willing to pay whatever price Octagon sets?  

Like I said, it was announced at release that Karn would take longer than usual to hit the vault, and they gave one of their specifically general dates for arrival (I think it was 3 moths, but it could have been 2).

As for the why of this, I think it was just to emphasize the uniqueness of Karn and build up the hype.
Its actually the main reason I bought him (and I'm sure the same for others) since I always found it really dumb that you spend real money on a walker and then they hit the vault for in game currency 3 weeks later (I almost requested a refund for my only other purchase ever when Jace 2 came out and then hit the vault literally 1 week later.  I was furious).  Part of the point of spending money is the early-access of it, you get to play around with new stuff before everyone else.  I don't see this as a bad thing or as something going away ever, but I also think the length for Karn specifically was just a hype-machine special for him and not a new trend (I guess we'll see this for sure with Teferi now)

span_argoman

Brakkis said:

span_argoman said:

Didn't the Karn bundle only leave the Vault  less than 2 weeks ago? I remember it still being around until the week before Dominaria's release.

That was when people were complaining about the Gilded Lotus nerf and someone had commented that at least the bundle shows the updated information.

I believe that was the second time he was in the vault. Not certain on that since I don't do cash purchases but I feel like he left that vault and then came back the week before Dominaria dropped.

Ahh ok, I would start the count from when the last paid bundle exits the Vault I guess. I believe the only exceptions thus far have been Bolas which was available like a week after the last Bolas bundle before Christmas left the Vault, and Saheeli Rai who didn't have a bundle iirc but was exclusive to the her event winners for almost half a year.

@FindingHeart8
It's only been 2 weeks. Chill a bit.

Grixis197

They said he probably won’t come for months so sometime in Fall I would think

bk1234

Just to reinforce what pp said: 

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/72055/2-6-release-notes-updated-4-19-18#latest

After the May 23rd date, Karn, Scion of Urza won't be available in the Vault for Mana Crystals just yet until a later, not-yet-announced date. This date will be longer than previously released Planeswalkers, which tended to be 3 weeks after conclusion of bundle sale.

Generally the crystal cost of PW coincides with the leveling cost so I would plan on him costing the same as Bolas -- though they've surprised us in the past -- just a good rule of thumb if you're saving. 

FindingHeart8

Mburn7 said:

FindingHeart8 said:

Mburn7 said:

When he was first released for cash they stated that he would take longer to hit the vault than usual, so probably 2-3 months from initial release instead of the usual 1-2.  So far there is no reason to think they are deviating from this.

And based on the leveling costs, I predict he will cost the same as Bolas, whatever that was.

@FindingHeart8 what does the lotus nerf have to do with whether or not you want to get Karn?  That's like saying you only got Bolas for Unesh, not because he's one of the strongest walkers released to date.

I really like how Oktagon gives a free rare with each new walker, that is a wonderful surprise and bonus that they really don't have to do.  I don't understand why people are already taking it for granted and acting like that is the real value of purchasing a walker (for crystals, I'm not trying to rehash the cash debate)

I want to know when he is going to hit the Vault and why he is taking so much longer than other planeswalkers to become available for anything besides cash.  Is this the start of a new trend, where we will have to wait 1/4 to half a year to have access to a planeswalker unless we're willing to pay whatever price Octagon sets?  

Like I said, it was announced at release that Karn would take longer than usual to hit the vault, and they gave one of their specifically general dates for arrival (I think it was 3 moths, but it could have been 2).

As for the why of this, I think it was just to emphasize the uniqueness of Karn and build up the hype.
Its actually the main reason I bought him (and I'm sure the same for others) since I always found it really dumb that you spend real money on a walker and then they hit the vault for in game currency 3 weeks later (I almost requested a refund for my only other purchase ever when Jace 2 came out and then hit the vault literally 1 week later.  I was furious).  Part of the point of spending money is the early-access of it, you get to play around with new stuff before everyone else.  I don't see this as a bad thing or as something going away ever, but I also think the length for Karn specifically was just a hype-machine special for him and not a new trend (I guess we'll see this for sure with Teferi now)

I can see why you'd feel a bit tinnykitty'd having bought the planeswalker and it hit the vault immediately after (though a perk being those are crystals you don't have to use now to get him).

I'm not asking for them to have Karn available at this moment, but more a want to know when he's available.  Heck if it isn't for another month that's fine but please at least inform us about this.  Some of us still have PTSD from Hibernum's neglect

span_argoman

bken1234 said:

Just to reinforce what pp said: 

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/72055/2-6-release-notes-updated-4-19-18#latest

After the May 23rd date, Karn, Scion of Urza won't be available in the Vault for Mana Crystals just yet until a later, not-yet-announced date. This date will be longer than previously released Planeswalkers, which tended to be 3 weeks after conclusion of bundle sale.

Generally the crystal cost of PW coincides with the leveling cost so I would plan on him costing the same as Bolas -- though they've surprised us in the past -- just a good rule of thumb if you're saving. 

Ah, so it wasn't even two weeks. It was barely a week ago. Thanks for the reminder on the release notes!

FindingHeart8

bken1234 said:

Just to reinforce what pp said: 

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/72055/2-6-release-notes-updated-4-19-18#latest

After the May 23rd date, Karn, Scion of Urza won't be available in the Vault for Mana Crystals just yet until a later, not-yet-announced date. This date will be longer than previously released Planeswalkers, which tended to be 3 weeks after conclusion of bundle sale.

Generally the crystal cost of PW coincides with the leveling cost so I would plan on him costing the same as Bolas -- though they've surprised us in the past -- just a good rule of thumb if you're saving. 

thanks for providing this bken1234.  I had seen this before, I just presumed that (as that is a post from over a month ago), they might have more updated information to share.

FindingHeart8

span_argoman said:

bken1234 said:

Just to reinforce what pp said: 

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/72055/2-6-release-notes-updated-4-19-18#latest

After the May 23rd date, Karn, Scion of Urza won't be available in the Vault for Mana Crystals just yet until a later, not-yet-announced date. This date will be longer than previously released Planeswalkers, which tended to be 3 weeks after conclusion of bundle sale.

Generally the crystal cost of PW coincides with the leveling cost so I would plan on him costing the same as Bolas -- though they've surprised us in the past -- just a good rule of thumb if you're saving. 

Ah, so it wasn't even two weeks. It was barely a week ago. Thanks for the reminder on the release notes!

Perhaps a miscommunication on my original post.  Rephrasing: He's been in the vault for a month, now he's out and there are new planeswalkers coming in.

JopeX37

FindingHeart8 said:

I'm not asking for them to have Karn available at this moment, but more a want to know when he's available.  Heck if it isn't for another month that's fine but please at least inform us about this.  Some of us still have PTSD from Hibernum's neglect

Precisely.  Just tell us when he's going to be available and how much he'll cost.  I just want to be able to plan efficiently/effectively.

span_argoman

FindingHeart8 said:

span_argoman said:

bken1234 said:

Just to reinforce what pp said: 

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/72055/2-6-release-notes-updated-4-19-18#latest

After the May 23rd date, Karn, Scion of Urza won't be available in the Vault for Mana Crystals just yet until a later, not-yet-announced date. This date will be longer than previously released Planeswalkers, which tended to be 3 weeks after conclusion of bundle sale.

Generally the crystal cost of PW coincides with the leveling cost so I would plan on him costing the same as Bolas -- though they've surprised us in the past -- just a good rule of thumb if you're saving. 

Ah, so it wasn't even two weeks. It was barely a week ago. Thanks for the reminder on the release notes!

Perhaps a miscommunication on my original post.  Rephrasing: He's been in the vault for a month, now he's out and there are new planeswalkers coming in.

Well, the trend has always been to count from the point the bundle leaves the Vault. There's no need to invent new metrics for when planeswalkers should be out in the Vault for Crystals.

In any case, the release notes has referenced the old benchmark and specified that Karn will be exclusive for even longer this time. So I guess we can revisit this topic in 3 weeks' time. It's way too early to claim that Karn is taking 'so much longer to become available for anything besides cash'.

FindingHeart8

JopeX37 said:

FindingHeart8 said:

I'm not asking for them to have Karn available at this moment, but more a want to know when he's available.  Heck if it isn't for another month that's fine but please at least inform us about this.  Some of us still have PTSD from Hibernum's neglect

Precisely.  Just tell us when he's going to be available and how much he'll cost.  I just want to be able to plan efficiently/effectively.

Exactly, I don't want another Ixalan/Rivals incident where I waste all my crystals on Dominaria packs (which I should probably stop anyways, as the packs I've pulled and feedback from others suggest very low rare/mythic pulls) the suddenly Octagon surprises us with the good stuff

Mark_Tedin

Karn should cost 850 ! (same bolas) Karn has huge restrictions in events and lotus was wear out.