Taxing does not mean difficult nor fun

gogol666

The length and slowness of race to orazca just convinced one of my players (swwagain) to quit. While I think the game is progressing in the right direction (dominaria is a fun set, awr is less grindy, etc. See my kudos post), there are some incomprehensible choices that prevent from having fun with the game:
Long events are boring, because they feel like working (eg repeating the same task over and over)
Permanent supports makes matches even slower: while some of the effects add variety to the game, most of them entail long animations, which, albeit cute, takes forever to play
Animations in general are really well-made but they are slow, in particular on not so new devices. While the game needs it's eye-candy, having a turn lasting longer than a minute (and even more in some cases) feels tiring on the player.
Last, but not least, charges and refreshes are a bad concept: as it is now a player needs to play regularly every few refreshes in order not to lose charges and needs to play at least a full round 6 hours before the end of the event. However, people plays from everywhere in the world and sometimes this schedule requires to play at night, early in the morning, during breaks at work, etc.
There are a few simple and effective solutions to all of these:
- shorter events
- faster animations (or no animation at all)
- all charges given at the start of the event with no max charge.

Please, let's have fun with the game again

Laeuftbeidir

I miss the 48hr events in particular. The third (and forth) day always feel pointless.

A lot of good points here!

JopeX37

Laeuftbeidir said:

I miss the 48hr events in particular. The third (and forth) day always feel pointless.

A lot of good points here!

I think the issue here is the gulf between when progression rewards and the event end.  It's fun to keep getting progression, but when you've been done with those for a day and a half the event tends to feel tedious.

DBJones

Even if the progression rewards continued, I think 3 day events are too long to be the norm (1 player PvE is different of course). Every couple weeks or so would be fine, but multiple per week is too much. A World Reborn was great. First time I've ever got a perfect score on the first run, right after losing cycling too!

span_argoman

People, Race to Orazca has always been a 46 hour event.

Are people mistaking the length of RtO or are they requesting the coalition events to only last a day?

Firinmahlazer

I hate RtO. I hate 5 node events and the last 2 times it has been plauged with connection issues and it makes the game unplayable. 

It's like you're not just forcing me to be in the same room with someone I don't like but you're making me talk to them as well. 

gogol666

span_argoman said:

People, Race to Orazca has always been a 46 hour event.

Are people mistaking the length of RtO or are they requesting the coalition events to only last a day?

You are right: rto is only two days long, but in my original post I'm complaining about different aspects of events and, even though rto lasts "only" two days it feels an eternity because of 5 nodes, extra effects, slow animations, etc.
What about an rto that allows you to play at the time you can and allows you to skip/speed up animations? I'd love that, even though I would give 4 charges per node in total and 48 hour to play them.

span_argoman

Hmm, well you called the event long and hence boring due to repetition. So it wasn't clear that it was due to the number of nodes, which wouldn't lead to the repetition issue since each node is different.

Additionally, I'm against having 24-hour events. It is attractive only for people who happen to be in the right timezone. 46 hours is a good amount of time for people in less ideal timezones to clear the bulk of the charges when they are more free, and then only having to rush the last round or two before the end of the event.

Your concern on the permanent supports seems to be more on the animation speed than what those supports bring to the match. I agree that there should be an option for animations to be switched off or for animation speed to be toggled, especially since QB no longer exists and so speed of clearing matches is no longer a competitive edge.

However I believe the permanent supports do add some much needed variety to each match. So on that I think the permanent supports were a refreshing change for the events.

While I can see the appeal of having all the charges available from the moment the event is active, I'm in the camp that feels psychologically exhausted from seeing a huge pile of charges to be cleared. In any case, they are probably unlikely to change the charges since they want players to be logging in activity on the app regularly.

FindingHeart8

Firinmahlazer said:

I hate RtO. I hate 5 node events and the last 2 times it has been plauged with connection issues and it makes the game unplayable. 

It's like you're not just forcing me to be in the same room with someone I don't like but you're making me talk to them as well. 

and the room is the DMV and you have to wait for your number to be called to talk to them, until then you're left to enjoy their incredibly uncomfortable plastic chairs

gogol666

span_argoman said:

Hmm, well you called the event long and hence boring due to repetition. So it wasn't clear that it was due to the number of nodes, which wouldn't lead to the repetition issue since each node is different.

Additionally, I'm against having 24-hour events. It is attractive only for people who happen to be in the right timezone. 46 hours is a good amount of time for people in less ideal timezones to clear the bulk of the charges when they are more free, and then only having to rush the last round or two before the end of the event.

Your concern on the permanent supports seems to be more on the animation speed than what those supports bring to the match. I agree that there should be an option for animations to be switched off or for animation speed to be toggled, especially since QB no longer exists and so speed of clearing matches is no longer a competitive edge.

However I believe the permanent supports do add some much needed variety to each match. So on that I think the permanent supports were a refreshing change for the events.

While I can see the appeal of having all the charges available from the moment the event is active, I'm in the camp that feels psychologically exhausted from seeing a huge pile of charges to be cleared. In any case, they are probably unlikely to change the charges since they want players to be logging in activity on the app regularly.

What if we are given 46 hours to complete 24 hours worth of charges?
Also, even though I understand the psichological reason, if we were given all charges at the start you can still chose to distribute them one round every 8 hours, while now I cannot choose when to play mine. Shouldn't more freedom be preferable?

bk1234

I'm confused by this RtO is a 46 hour event. It's one of the shortest we have. 

I think the bigger issue is overlapping it with another event -- one thing we all agree on is no one likes overlapping events. 

The bugs were another issue this time. It was 2 hours between the start of my first node and the start of my last -- exclusively because of the time it took to load and finish matches. 

FindingHeart8

bken1234 said:

I'm confused by this RtO is a 46 hour event. It's one of the shortest we have. 

I think the bigger issue is overlapping it with another event -- one thing we all agree on is no one likes overlapping events. 

The bugs were another issue this time. It was 2 hours between the start of my first node and the start of my last -- exclusively because of the time it took to load and finish matches. 

it was so glitchy that about 1/3 of my coalition couldn't even enter and participate.

It's disappointing they were excluded from the experience, and they were some of the best players too so it'll set my coalition back a bit.

wereotter

5 nodes, however, even with a shorter total run time, it's still a lot of time in-game to play it. I didn't get to it at all since I was out doing things for the holiday rather than wanting to spend my time playing the event.

span_argoman

People didn't complain about Nodes of Power back when it was released. That was the original 5-nodes event. They didn't complain about the event length either when the secondary objectives were added in though there were complaints about the event being 'ruined'.

We've people on the forums complaining that there is not enough to do in-game with the event schedule of the recent weeks. And now we have people complaining that RtO is too intensive with 5 nodes.

Personally, I'm just trying to figure out whether there's any general consensus on this or if people are just piling into the topics which fit their fancy.

wereotter

span_argoman said:

People didn't complain about Nodes of Power back when it was released. That was the original 5-nodes event. They didn't complain about the event length either when the secondary objectives were added in though there were complaints about the event being 'ruined'.

We've people on the forums complaining that there is not enough to do in-game with the event schedule of the recent weeks. And now we have people complaining that RtO is too intensive with 5 nodes.

Personally, I'm just trying to figure out whether there's any general consensus on this or if people are just piling into the topics which fit their fancy.

I never played Nodes of Power for the same reason. Though granted I wasn't playing the game at all when it was first released. Also consider that was (likely) over two years ago. The player base since then has likely changed a lot, and what worked then might not work as well now.

span_argoman

wereotter said:

span_argoman said:

People didn't complain about Nodes of Power back when it was released. That was the original 5-nodes event. They didn't complain about the event length either when the secondary objectives were added in though there were complaints about the event being 'ruined'.

We've people on the forums complaining that there is not enough to do in-game with the event schedule of the recent weeks. And now we have people complaining that RtO is too intensive with 5 nodes.

Personally, I'm just trying to figure out whether there's any general consensus on this or if people are just piling into the topics which fit their fancy.

I never played Nodes of Power for the same reason. Though granted I wasn't playing the game at all when it was first released. Also consider that was (likely) over two years ago. The player base since then has likely changed a lot, and what worked then might not work as well now.

Ok, assuming what you say is true that the player base has changed to not be able to tolerate 5-node events, do help me to understand better.

What kind of event schedule would you say is ideal for you? And do also share your thoughts on whether it would suit the rest of the player base.

I assume when people make their voices heard here on the official forums, they hope to see change towards their desired state of things.

Are we moving towards a state where players want all events to be strictly 3-nodes only whether for PvE or PvP? Is that the mandatory template to go by?

Mburn7

span_argoman said:

People didn't complain about Nodes of Power back when it was released. That was the original 5-nodes event. They didn't complain about the event length either when the secondary objectives were added in though there were complaints about the event being 'ruined'.

We've people on the forums complaining that there is not enough to do in-game with the event schedule of the recent weeks. And now we have people complaining that RtO is too intensive with 5 nodes.

Personally, I'm just trying to figure out whether there's any general consensus on this or if people are just piling into the topics which fit their fancy.

Remember, Nodes of Power was the first ever event in MTGPQ.  It could have been a steaming turd and we would have loved it.

I get the feeling that there is no real consensus.  I personally wish we could go back the the schedule where there was a coalition PvP during the week side-by-side with a legacy PvE and a Coalition PvE on the weekends side-by-side with a legacy PvP (with the stated goal that there would always be 1 of each running pretty much every day).
This would also go with the usual optional events of Training Grounds and Trial (and now Across Ixalan, I guess)

Obviously I understand why some people don't want that back, since its a lot of playing to clear it all every day.  Insisting that nobody is being forced to play the non-coalition events is a fools errand, as the FOMO is real.

The crux of the argument is between people who want a ton of events they can play whenever and however they want (so there is always something to do) and ignore the rest and people who feel like they have to complete every battle of every event for maximum rewards who feel burned out by a packed schedule.

There is no real way to find compromise, since one side will always be unhappy, so here we go 'round and 'round.

wereotter

I really can't speak for everyone else, I was merely floating an theory since the example you mentioned came out so long ago. But since you asked, and speaking for myself, I prefer more PvE content and less PvP as I find solving the puzzle of how to beat nodes most efficiently more fair and interesting than dealing with random decks in PvP, though I use the term random loosely as so many decks for so long were basically clones of each other, and often times I ran into troll decks set up specifically to make sure your opponents can't meet secondary objectives. Simply isn't as much fun for me.

Also that's added on that until recently all the events were PvP, I've been burned out on that type of content. The new PvE event was nice to see, but it was pretty simple and short with only two nodes, not that short was bad over a holiday weekend for me.

span_argoman

Mburn7 said:

span_argoman said:

People didn't complain about Nodes of Power back when it was released. That was the original 5-nodes event. They didn't complain about the event length either when the secondary objectives were added in though there were complaints about the event being 'ruined'.

We've people on the forums complaining that there is not enough to do in-game with the event schedule of the recent weeks. And now we have people complaining that RtO is too intensive with 5 nodes.

Personally, I'm just trying to figure out whether there's any general consensus on this or if people are just piling into the topics which fit their fancy.

Remember, Nodes of Power was the first ever event in MTGPQ.  It could have been a steaming turd and we would have loved it.

I get the feeling that there is no real consensus.  I personally wish we could go back the the schedule where there was a coalition PvP during the week side-by-side with a legacy PvE and a Coalition PvE on the weekends side-by-side with a legacy PvP (with the stated goal that there would always be 1 of each running pretty much every day).
This would also go with the usual optional events of Training Grounds and Trial (and now Across Ixalan, I guess)

Obviously I understand why some people don't want that back, since its a lot of playing to clear it all every day.  Insisting that nobody is being forced to play the non-coalition events is a fools errand, as the FOMO is real.

The crux of the argument is between people who want a ton of events they can play whenever and however they want (so there is always something to do) and ignore the rest and people who feel like they have to complete every battle of every event for maximum rewards who feel burned out by a packed schedule.

There is no real way to find compromise, since one side will always be unhappy, so here we go 'round and 'round.

Good points. But not only was it the first PvP event, it was the first PvP event following an era where the primary activity in the game was Quick Battle where grinding is the name of the game. So I think a 5-node was nothing compared to what the rest of the game offered.

And perhaps as you said, there is no real way to find a compromise as both sides seem to want basically the opposite of what each other wants.

wereotter said:

I really can't speak for everyone else, I was merely floating an theory since the example you mentioned came out so long ago. But since you asked, and speaking for myself, I prefer more PvE content and less PvP as I find solving the puzzle of how to beat nodes most efficiently more fair and interesting than dealing with random decks in PvP, though I use the term random loosely as so many decks for so long were basically clones of each other, and often times I ran into troll decks set up specifically to make sure your opponents can't meet secondary objectives. Simply isn't as much fun for me.

Also that's added on that until recently all the events were PvP, I've been burned out on that type of content. The new PvE event was nice to see, but it was pretty simple and short with only two nodes, not that short was bad over a holiday weekend for me.

Right ok. I get that, it's about having a fixed challenge to try to optimise your deck against. Personally I would like to see that too, but I yearn for say a separate node properly built and with the smarter AI that we had a few months back. The puzzles aren't that much of a puzzle when the AI is still almost dumb as bricks.

I feel like the developers need time to sit down and figure out what kind of players are their target core audience.

The game has thus far attracted people who want a digital version and also people who want a more sophisticated gem-matching game. It has also attracted people who are extremely competitive and those who treat this as a more challenging time-waster.

It's great to have a diverse group of people, but I imagine they have a hard time figuring out how to satisfy all the diverse interests.

Gilesclone

For me, 5 nodes wouldn’t be too bad, if the red and white nodes weren’t so grindy,  I think the white node took as long to play as black, blue and green put together.

ArielSira

I like the 5 node events (NoP, RtO) because they start with 1 charge. It feels a lot less grindy than the Hour events; they have 3 nodes but start with 4 or 5 charges. That feels like a mountain to climb every time.