Karn Bundle Card Changes *Updated (5/22/18)

FindingHeart8

Hmmm.  While it's good to see Octagon isn't blowing off the concerns of their consumers, this still doesn't make me feel content.

While I'm sure there's no legal infringement here (as I bet D3/Octagon has full legal protection from everything tucked away in their terms and conditions); accidental or not, this is still a significant infraction of ethical business practices.

When marketing digital content, the appeal of abilities and in-game usability (power) of the content in regards to consumer represent its value.  After a period of time, long-enough to get most of the people who planned on purchasing the product, but shorter than standard return policies for many companies offering quality products, the value of this content was significantly reduced.  Instead of negotiating on the adjustments (easy solution, keep the abilities but significantly increase casting cost), 80 crystals of in-game currency is offered.  Better than nothing, but chump-change in comparison to fixing the issue.

A positive corporate image and consumer-relations (especially in regards to an app game) are critical components to a healthy flow of revenue.  I guess we'll see how Octagon's decisions today will effect their marketing campaigns in the future.

Gilesclone

The ramp cards in Dom are expensive and not very powerful, cheap creatures have limited value.  This seems to continue the trend from Ix/RIx.  In general they seem to like longer games.

JopeX37

I'm going to try and boil down the arguments a little to try and establish what would be best going forward.

* Gilded Lotus gets nerfed.  This is frustrating for many reasons.  First, you guys did a terrible job at communicating the nerf.  No announcement, no explanation, we had to find out by looking at the card gallery.  Furthermore, when this was discovered, it took you guys almost a week to say anything about it.  So in the interim we were twisting in the wind wondering whether it was actually nerfed or just a typo.

* Next, your explanation is not sufficient.  Gilded Lotus was good, but I'd argue actually quite well balanced because of its fragility.  IMO, 2 vs 3 shields is the generally the dividing line between a support that is easy to kill vs. hard to kill, which is why the original common painland cycle from ORI aren't OP, or even all that good.  So between that and its actual effects which while good are nowhere near the level of other more broken cards that you haven't seen fit to nerf(looking at you cycling enablers and Omni), nerfing the card feels unnecessary, arbitrary, and capricious.

* Furthermore, while you explained GL nerf(poorly), you gave no reason to why the rest of the cards were nerfed.  Even for commons and uncommons none of those cards were OP and some were barely playable as originally costed, yet those had to get nerfed...why?  We don't know, and it makes your decision all the more puzzling and aggravating.

* Some people are mad because it feels like a bait-and-switch.  Many people that paid money for Karn did so because they judged that early access to Karn and GL and the certainty of acquiring GL together were worth the money.  It was a package deal so saying "Karn is great value for $20"(which in the context of the game's economics, it is) misses the point.  There are plenty of people that only bought in because of the entirety of the deal, so taking part of that away so arbitrarily and clumsily screws with the community's trust and that matters a lot.

* We like this game, but its history of being undertested extends back to the days of Hibernum.  If you're going to make us beta test your cards, don't be shocked when people get mad when you screw with stuff they paid good money for.

* If you are set in your minds to nerf GL, why nerf it into unplayability?  Make it cost 9 or 10 but keep the bonuses at +2 otherwise the thing isn't playable.  Or drop the bonuses to +1 but drop the cost to 5.  Do both and it kills the functionality of the card.

* 80 mana crystals is a pittance and making people do their own legwork on finding a receipt that may or may not exist is just lazy on your part.

So with all of that being said, I think it would be wise to do the following- 

1. Admit you made a mistake with how you went about the nerf and apologize. 

2. Reverse course on the nerf or at least scale it back.

2b. If you aren't going to do 2, at least go through the work of finding who bought Karn and give them some real compensation.  1500 orbs to craft a DOM rare seems like a fairish starting point.

3. Unnerf the non-GL stuff, why that ever happened is beyond me,

4. *THE MOST IMPORTANT THING*  Realize that there is a strong, loyal community around this game but sometimes you end up making us angry for no reason.  STOP THAT.  If you feel the need to change a card in the future, don't just spring it on us without an explanation.  WotC writes an article every time they ban/restrict something.  You need to do the same going forward.

PS- I didn't know where to put it before now, but I'm personally really annoyed I'll never get to play good GL.  It was the single card I was most excited to play with in all of DOM, and you threw that away.

Sirchombli

Yup, we got ya good , kid. Here's a buck, go get yourself something nice. I was only mildly annoyed initially, but this is the resolution for the issue? And we have to contact you? This might be the tinykittiest move possible. Man. Good thing you've got some loyal players, because I'm not giving up any more money. I'd have been happier if you just shrugged and said deal wiffit . At least I 5 shiny new commons 

Theros

it's apparent many are not interested in compensation but undoing nerf on other cards and make a compromise on Lotus.
Their  offer of compensation implies they have no intention of ever reworking Lotus and other cards in near future .

MTG_Mage

It takes a lot to get me to outright complain, but everything surrounding the Karn pre-purchase and the nerf of the cards within it was handled VERY poorly.
I too made this purchase largely due to the value of getting GL.
This feels like a bait and switch.  The nerfs were done immediately after the product was pulled, and are way overdone...and the compensation is insulting. They are even making us submit proof of receipt to get the pittance of compensation.
The compensation should be automatic to all purchasers, and be at LEAST a Dominaria Premium Pack or the crystal equivalent since a PP is guaranteed to include a rare.

Sadly I must say that this issue has severely impacted future decisions at spending real money on this game for myself and everyone I know.
I urge the developers to reconsider how they will be rolling this out as trust has been lost and it takes a lot to earn that back so they should do as much as they can immediately.

The nerf on GL should be just raising cost to nine and giving it 3 shields. I dont think the +2 bonus should be changed, and if it must then adjust it to how it was meant to work by boosting all bonuses below a certain value (so instead have it give +3 but only to any bonuses at +2 or less to begin with)

jtwood

JopeX37 said:

* We like this game, but its history of being undertested extends back to the days of Hibernum.  If you're going to make us beta test your cards, don't be shocked when people get mad when you screw with stuff they paid good money for.

Best part of the best post I've read in a while

joerginger

span_argoman said:

Also a player fielding both Damping Sphere + Gilded Lotus would totally crush the opponent since a -2 across the board to your opponent is more significant an advantage than a +2 across the board to yourself.

You know that's not true at all because the AI always makes sure it gets to play whatever it wants whenever it wants. It just runs yet another cascade after cascade followed by extra swap after extra swap. And to make things worse, to destroy your Gilded Lotus, the AI doesn't really need a cascade. It will match it down to one shield and the following turn the absolutely only possible match will be for you to match your own Lotus away. The AI loves to do that very much.

babar3355

JopeX37 said:

I'm going to try and boil down the arguments a little to try and establish what would be best going forward.

* Gilded Lotus gets nerfed.  This is frustrating for many reasons.  First, you guys did a terrible job at communicating the nerf.  No announcement, no explanation, we had to find out by looking at the card gallery.  Furthermore, when this was discovered, it took you guys almost a week to say anything about it.  So in the interim we were twisting in the wind wondering whether it was actually nerfed or just a typo.

* Next, your explanation is not sufficient.  Gilded Lotus was good, but I'd argue actually quite well balanced because of its fragility.  IMO, 2 vs 3 shields is the generally the dividing line between a support that is easy to kill vs. hard to kill, which is why the original common painland cycle from ORI aren't OP, or even all that good.  So between that and its actual effects which while good are nowhere near the level of other more broken cards that you haven't seen fit to nerf(looking at you cycling enablers and Omni), nerfing the card feels unnecessary, arbitrary, and capricious.

* Furthermore, while you explained GL nerf(poorly), you gave no reason to why the rest of the cards were nerfed.  Even for commons and uncommons none of those cards were OP and some were barely playable as originally costed, yet those had to get nerfed...why?  We don't know, and it makes your decision all the more puzzling and aggravating.

* Some people are mad because it feels like a bait-and-switch.  Many people that paid money for Karn did so because they judged that early access to Karn and GL and the certainty of acquiring GL together were worth the money.  It was a package deal so saying "Karn is great value for $20"(which in the context of the game's economics, it is) misses the point.  There are plenty of people that only bought in because of the entirety of the deal, so taking part of that away so arbitrarily and clumsily screws with the community's trust and that matters a lot.

* We like this game, but its history of being undertested extends back to the days of Hibernum.  If you're going to make us beta test your cards, don't be shocked when people get mad when you screw with stuff they paid good money for.

* If you are set in your minds to nerf GL, why nerf it into unplayability?  Make it cost 9 or 10 but keep the bonuses at +2 otherwise the thing isn't playable.  Or drop the bonuses to +1 but drop the cost to 5.  Do both and it kills the functionality of the card.

* 80 mana crystals is a pittance and making people do their own legwork on finding a receipt that may or may not exist is just lazy on your part.

So with all of that being said, I think it would be wise to do the following- 

1. Admit you made a mistake with how you went about the nerf and apologize. 

2. Reverse course on the nerf or at least scale it back.

2b. If you aren't going to do 2, at least go through the work of finding who bought Karn and give them some real compensation.  1500 orbs to craft a DOM rare seems like a fairish starting point.

3. Unnerf the non-GL stuff, why that ever happened is beyond me,

4. *THE MOST IMPORTANT THING*  Realize that there is a strong, loyal community around this game but sometimes you end up making us angry for no reason.  STOP THAT.  If you feel the need to change a card in the future, don't just spring it on us without an explanation.  WotC writes an article every time they ban/restrict something.  You need to do the same going forward.

PS- I didn't know where to put it before now, but I'm personally really annoyed I'll never get to play good GL.  It was the single card I was most excited to play with in all of DOM, and you threw that away.

100% this @brigby @lakestone

timthes

I agree with every post above this one, so why don't you do something about it... strange we actively have to pursue a 'compensation' for something you've done wrong. If you want to keep loyal players (read paying customers) you better get back to the drawing board and make another design decision with Gilded Lotus, which I bought with Karn as added bonus

Brigby

Hi Everyone. Once again, we apologize for the confusion and lack of communication, prior to this anticipated change. It was unfortunately an oversight, but we are taking steps to make sure that any potential changes in the future are communicated in advance, so that the community is well aware of them ahead of time.

When it comes to the changes to Gilded Lotus, I have made sure to compile the feedback of the community, and passed it along to the development team for re-evaluation. While I do not have any updates to provide at this moment, I'll be sure to inform everyone once we have information to share.

In addition, players are no longer required to provide their purchase receipts for the 80 Mana Crystal gift, however if you have it on hand, you're more than welcome to include it in your ticket as an alternate form of confirmation.

Theros

I hope we get some info soon, not empty promises . it's an opportunity for Octagon to differentiate itself from hybernum.

Froggy

I refuse to claim my 80 crystals.

The cards being nerfed are worth more than that.

I’m going to wait this one out.

rafalele

Dominaria is here and Gilded Lotus has been nerfed as they published.

As said before my first cash bought and my last.

Froggy

rafalele said:

Dominaria is here and Gilded Lotus has been nerfed as they published.

As said before my first cash bought and my last.

Yeah, I just saw that. Horrible.

Brigby

Froggy said:

rafalele said:

Dominaria is here and Gilded Lotus has been nerfed as they published.

As said before my first cash bought and my last.

Yeah, I just saw that. Horrible.

Any re-evaluations to Gilded Lotus unfortunately would not be in the current 2.7 build, because at that point it was too late to add any changes to today's build. Rest assured though that they are still taking the community's feedback into consideration, and any potential adjustments would likely have to be implemented in an upcoming build or data patch.

Steve111

Customer Services are still asking for a receipt. I passed on Brigby’s post above. Let’s see what they say next. 

Avahad

Ok- so the create a ticket thingy was there before the update (crashed my game every time I tried so I gave up) now it’s gone.... anyone know where it’s disappeared to at all?

Steve111

Its in 'Settings' and then 'Help Centre' @Avahad