Support: Royal Talon Fighter (5/21/18)

2

Comments

  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    I wonder what caused them to increase the odd from 1:10 to 1:2X. Could it have to do with:

    4) how a character need 13 covers to upgrade and you need RNG to be on your side to get the perfect covers, wherea support don't have similar process.
    This one doesn't really make sense to me.  While it is true that you don't need to pull 13 copies of a rank 5 support to get full use out of it, the same also applies to those rank 4 supports the master token will give you.  So I would have expected the odds to be a similar order of magnitude to those for legendary tokens.

    Also, rank 5 supports are more than just one extra power: it also increases the level cap by 50 levels.  For powers that scale linearly in one dimension that might be a 25% increase.  For powers scaling linearly in two dimensions (e.g. a power that places a strike tile of a particular strength, with a particular probability each turn), it might be closer to a 50% increase in power.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,824 Chairperson of the Boards
    I am not looking forward to the standard Support token pool being diluted by Black Order Supports. They are of almost no use to me, and I am missing a number of the original 13, including the Chimichanga. 

    But of course, I was expecting them to come at some point, but maybe after season end.

    Supports!  We do what we want and it doesn’t have to make sense!  Just like comics!
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Royal Talon Fighter is made for Okoye and any characters that utilise teamup ap (5*BP etc).

    At max level:

    1) Start of turn, 15% chance to create 168 strike tile.
    2) 40% chance to gt +2 Teamup ap for every teamup match
    3)Fires a power and 20% chance to deal 1932 AoE damage 
    4) Base Yellow increased by 16%
    5) Max health increases by 21%
    6) Okoye only: power cost 1 ap less for every 5 teamup and capped at 2ap. So, her yellow would cost 5 and red cost 11 ap.

    1:27/29 is 3.7%/3.45% chance of getting any special themed Rank 5 support.

    1:10 is 10% chance of getting any Rank 5 initial support release.

    It could be some marketing ploy to increase the perceived rarity of special themed Rank 5 support. Maybe contratry to popular belief in he forum, their in-game data shows that a lot of players are buying supports specific bundle offers.

    The important thing to note is whether they will decrease the odds of Rank 5 once Black Order Supports are added into the current Support store.

    I'm holding out for some change in the way support is acquired in mid June.
  • Basepuzzler
    Basepuzzler Posts: 180 Tile Toppler
    This is the first non-infinity stone support that I actually want, since I’ll be pulling a hoard for okoye soon. And level 4 would get most of the benefit.  

    But there’s still no good way to acquire it.  I’m not shelling out 5k HP for a few tokens that have terribly small odds to get the support I want.  

    This is the classics token dilution problem but way earlier than it became an issue for 5* characters.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Royal Talon Fighter is the only support with 4x odds. 

    Black Order has been added to the "normal" Support store and the odds for Rank 5 support is still 1:10. They lose the 4x odds though.

    So, 1:27 is for those who wants to feel lucky and can't wait to get their hands on latest support? 

    I feel like spending another 250CP though: 1 Master Token and 3 Advanced Tokens. Getting Royal Talon Fight is more or less a done deal since it's the only support with 4x odds.
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,814 Chairperson of the Boards
    Where’s the uninstall supports button?


  • LeRoy1979
    LeRoy1979 Posts: 25 Just Dropped In
    I think we're in for a big reveal soon-namely that we've been playing with supports for a long time and didn't even know it. Gambit's Walking stick-100% chance to generate 2 red and 2 pink AP per turn. For free. Oh, and also destroys 2 random enemy AP.
    See, Gambit isn't OP, he just came pre-loaded with a support :smile:  Now, instead of "nerfing" him, they can just unequip said support.
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,208 Chairperson of the Boards
    LeRoy1979 said:
    I think we're in for a big reveal soon-namely that we've been playing with supports for a long time and didn't even know it. Gambit's Walking stick-100% chance to generate 2 red and 2 pink AP per turn. For free. Oh, and also destroys 2 random enemy AP.
    See, Gambit isn't OP, he just came pre-loaded with a support :smile:  Now, instead of "nerfing" him, they can just unequip said support.

    There is no unequip option hahaha
  • Player1575
    Player1575 Posts: 253 Mover and Shaker
    At least you guys didn't screw this one up like you did the Astral plane support and make it only equipable to Okoye.

    Still not buying. 
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    Going in full pay to win mode?
    I am joking, Supports are not helping anyone with winning. Mostly because they are too useless to really help (unless you robbed a bank and got 600k+ RISO) or because PvE, which is the only part of the game where Supports are needed, is pretty much doable without help of supports.
    Some PvE feature that would test our power and bring some challenge would be nice. Maybe some daily boss like Ultron/Thanos/Apocalypse etc.?
  • ZeroKarma
    ZeroKarma Posts: 513 Critical Contributor
    I think they are getting closer with this support than they have with others with regards to actual in-game usefulness. I’ve been playing around with a 3 cover Okoye and found her to be pretty useful even now thanks to the damage bonus from her black. 

    That said, I will not be spending 250 cp for a chance to get one. And I won’t buy the vault either. The odds are still too small to actually get that specific support, and with so much chaff in those tokens that are pretty useless, you’re going to end up disappointed unless you’re super lucky.
  • dr tinykittylove
    dr tinykittylove Posts: 1,459 Chairperson of the Boards
    Perversely, because there is nothing interesting for me to do with the game at the moment, I bought a 10pk from the vault. 

    First pull - 25 riso (dies a little inside) 
    Then the rest turned into
    3 2* covers
    4 3* covers
    a beginner token (2* kimoyo beads) 
    an advanced token in a pear tree (3* talon fighter) 

    Not that there's anything I can do with them either... I topped them off with a little riso and equipped them, and... 
    profit? 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2018
    When I pulled the previous Wakanda Supports (1 Master and 3 Beginner supports), 3/4 of them are Wakanda Supports. The poster above me got the Talon Fighter Support as well. If the 4* is not Hulkbuster, I would have bought it. I hav already covered 19/24 supports (not including Infinity Stones). I hope they have bundle for 3* characters next time using CP instead of 3400HP. I expecting it to be between 100-150CP though.

    Besides, I don't think it's compulsory to collect all the supports. Pick a few that are helpful.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    It's multiple time experiences:

    I got: 

    1) 3 Black Order supports from the 6 free Black Order Tokens.
    2) 2 Wakanda Supports from the 3 free Pure Vibranium Support Tokens.

    All those tokens had 4x odds to get each themed supports. 

    Perhaps, the odds are with me. 
  • Figure15
    Figure15 Posts: 284 Mover and Shaker
    Anyone have RTF level 1 numbers?
  • Clamps2
    Clamps2 Posts: 17 Just Dropped In
    Stop with the confirmation bias and assuming that a shiny 4X graphic means you'll get that one.  It depends on how many supports are in the pool, and how many actually have the increased odds.

    Black Order supports:
    Single pull odds: 16/30 = 53.3%
    So if you got 3 in 6, that's hardly surprising.  
    The odds to get at least one BOS in 6 pulls was ~99%

    Wakanda supports:
    Single pull odds: 20/38 = 52.6%
    So 2 in 3, still not surprising at above 50% odds.
    The odds to get at least one WS in 3 pulls was ~89%

    Now, for the Royal Talon Fighter supports.  You can see these numbers are much lower:
    Single pull odds: 4/27 = 14.8%
    At least one in the 250cp 4-pack: 47.3%

    And one last one to show how bad the 5* odds are at 1:27:
    Master token 5* RTFS odds: 0.55%
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I was thinking how the odds are distributed between Latest and Vintage support cards is similar to the odds of getting Latest 4 * in Latest/Classic Legends Token. The odds of getting a 4* is 85%. The odds of getting Latest 4* is 42.5%. Similarly, the odds of getting Latest support is 50%. 
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,824 Chairperson of the Boards
    Considering the Talon Fighter store is closed, this is currently moot, but:

    The devs are required (by law, I believe, mostly from non-US governments) to tell you up front what the odds are. Every store has the  Info “?” button and it has to show you what you may get and what the least beneficial odds are from a pull.  (Aside:  You get better odds of 3's and 4's from pulling a 10 or 40 pack of non-vault tokens, but they don't need to tell you what those better odds are.)  So they can't "behind the scenes" weight the Latest Supports over the Vintage Supports when you make a pull.

    In the Legendary Stores information, the 4's are shown as 4X or just displayed with no odds overlay.  We know from the forum postings that the division is 50/50 for 4's which allows us to extrapolate the 42.5% odds.  The store doesn't tell us that.

    There are now 18 Supports in the standard tokens.  That means that when you open a token that is currently available, you have a 5.56% chance of getting a particular Support.  They aren't weighting the Black Order Supports over any other; if they were, they would have to indicate that.

    Now, the Special Supports that show, say, “4X” are 4 times as likely to be pulled vs. any other individual Support that is not showing some odds overlay.  

    For the Talon Fighter Store, there were 24 Supports in the tokens, with only the Talon Fighter at 4X odds.  So we have 4x (x being the odds of the other 23 Supports) + 23 x = 100.  That comes to, in this particular now-closed store, approximately a 14.812% chance of having pulled a Talon Fighter Support from the tokens, and a 3.703% chance of having pulled a different specific Support (or 85.185% of pulling a non-Talon Fighter Support in total).

    Compared to a lot of other "desirable" items, 14.8% chance of getting the TF Support was pretty good, but the odds of actually getting one of those tokens was obviously not as good.  RNG within RNG.

Categories