Is the Immortal Sun Broken?

babar3355

Check out my most recent video and then you tell me....

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCupt2-08K2Bh2p-9IHxI92Q?view_as=subscriber

The link goes to my channel... just click on "How to Abuse the Immortal Sun" video!

Also, if anyone has run up against this deck, I would love to hear how Greg pilots it.

Zzyzzx

This is just obscene

boopers

lol... yeah... been playing that deck since I got sun, but with NP in the mix.  it is filthy.  Greg should just prioritize supports and then it's blow and go for him... until the loop breaks because he fetched too many supports.  then he's toast.

DumasAG

For those of us stuck in places where we can’t watch video, can someone give me the quick and dirty on what we’re seeing?

babar3355

Turn 2 victory using Imminent Doom, Sun and 8 super cheap spelks.  All C or U except Pull.  Also this was my first time... Turn 3-4 is probably the average game length.

khurram

No. It's not broken.

Mainloop25

Seems like Imminent Doom is more broken than Immortal Sun, since you could pull off combos like this before Sun existed.

babar3355

Mainloop25 said:

Seems like Imminent Doom is more broken than Immortal Sun, since you could pull off combos like this before Sun existed.

You mean with BTB, Harness the Storm, Baral and company?   In legacy?... Now assuming you have Sun... All you need is ID.

If any card needs a Nerf I really don't think it's ID... It's the free Mana enabler.  Just like with Baral.

Mainloop25

I don't think either card needs a nerf. 

Mburn7

This is a very specific combo using 2 exclusive mythics (granted 1 is more easy to get than the other, but still).

I don't really think either card needs a nerf.

Remember, Sun is stupid expensive and hurts you too, and Doom starts with 1 shield.  I don't think its worth bringing out the Nerf Hammer

Gunmix25

babar3355 said:

Mainloop25 said:

Seems like Imminent Doom is more broken than Immortal Sun, since you could pull off combos like this before Sun existed.

You mean with BTB, Harness the Storm, Baral and company?   In legacy?... Now assuming you have Sun... All you need is ID.

If any card needs a Nerf I really don't think it's ID... It's the free Mana enabler.  Just like with Baral.

But you are using specific costed cards... NP dishes out 3 mana for specific costed cards to Immortal sun's 2. Why does immortal sun need a nerf and not New Perspectives? 

Gideon

It doesn’t need a nerf. I’ve never seen this deck. I’ve played against ID one time. If We start to see this deck rule the meta in various forms then we can talk about it. 

Gunmix25

Immortal sun is annoying but nowhere near the level of needing a nerf. 

babar3355

Gunmix25 said:

babar3355 said:

Mainloop25 said:

Seems like Imminent Doom is more broken than Immortal Sun, since you could pull off combos like this before Sun existed.

You mean with BTB, Harness the Storm, Baral and company?   In legacy?... Now assuming you have Sun... All you need is ID.

If any card needs a Nerf I really don't think it's ID... It's the free Mana enabler.  Just like with Baral.

But you are using specific costed cards... NP dishes out 3 mana for specific costed cards to Immortal sun's 2. Why does immortal sun need a nerf and not New Perspectives? 

For the record, I don't think Immortal Sun needs a nerf.  Unless we see these decks constantly rule the meta as Gideon noted.  I just wanted to display the effects of infinite mana enablers, even ones that cap out at 2 mana like Sun.

And New Perspectives 100% deserved a nerf the day it came out.... and still does.  You will certainly never find me in the don't nerf cycling/NP camp.

babar3355

Gunmix25 said:

babar3355 said:

Mainloop25 said:

Seems like Imminent Doom is more broken than Immortal Sun, since you could pull off combos like this before Sun existed.

You mean with BTB, Harness the Storm, Baral and company?   In legacy?... Now assuming you have Sun... All you need is ID.

If any card needs a Nerf I really don't think it's ID... It's the free Mana enabler.  Just like with Baral.

But you are using specific costed cards... NP dishes out 3 mana for specific costed cards to Immortal sun's 2. Why does immortal sun need a nerf and not New Perspectives? 

For the record, I don't think Immortal Sun needs a nerf.  Unless we see these decks constantly rule the meta as Gideon noted.  I just wanted to display the effects of infinite mana enablers, even ones that cap out at 2 mana like Sun.

And New Perspectives 100% deserved a nerf the day it came out.... and still does.  You will certainly never find me in the don't nerf cycling/NP camp.

Gunmix25

babar3355 said:

Gunmix25 said:

babar3355 said:

Mainloop25 said:

Seems like Imminent Doom is more broken than Immortal Sun, since you could pull off combos like this before Sun existed.

You mean with BTB, Harness the Storm, Baral and company?   In legacy?... Now assuming you have Sun... All you need is ID.

If any card needs a Nerf I really don't think it's ID... It's the free Mana enabler.  Just like with Baral.

But you are using specific costed cards... NP dishes out 3 mana for specific costed cards to Immortal sun's 2. Why does immortal sun need a nerf and not New Perspectives? 

For the record, I don't think Immortal Sun needs a nerf.  Unless we see these decks constantly rule the meta as Gideon noted.  I just wanted to display the effects of infinite mana enablers, even ones that cap out at 2 mana like Sun.

And New Perspectives 100% deserved a nerf the day it came out.... and still does.  You will certainly never find me in the don't nerf cycling/NP camp.

Okay, that makes more sense. Thanks for taking a moment to be a bit more clear. The thing about that build though is that it is very niche in regards to Immortal Sun.  I define a build that rule the meta as ones that are far more universal; which I am sure you do too. This one is a bit narrow in focus objective wise, despite being very powerful. Nice video by the way and thanks for having CC. It's good to be able to read and follow your video commentary.

As for New perspectives, I am in that same camp as you.  

Kinesia

For me the issue isn't the immortal sun part as much as Imminent Doom. There are a _lot_ of cards that reduce mana costs in some way and Immortal Sun just adds to the list with it's own pros and cons.

But there really aren't many other things to fill the Imminent Doom role in the deck. Aetherflux Reservoir is one that I have, but because of the lower damage I usually get a few turns to interfere in some way.

What I feel we need are more things we can have in play to interfere with what the opponent is doing...
Like Kinjali shuts down a lot of token decks or at least makes sure you get a chance to reply.

Things like Angrath's ultimate or Psychic feedback or Psychic Venom or Jace's Defeat that either punish the opponent for their loop or help disrupt it, we need more things like that.

I like new and crazy cards and don't want to call for a nerf for everything but I do think there should answers to most general strategies at the common/uncommon level.

Mainloop25

Kinesia said:

For me the issue isn't the immortal sun part as much as Imminent Doom. There are a _lot_ of cards that reduce mana costs in some way and Immortal Sun just adds to the list with it's own pros and cons.

But there really aren't many other things to fill the Imminent Doom role in the deck. Aetherflux Reservoir is one that I have, but because of the lower damage I usually get a few turns to interfere in some way.

What I feel we need are more things we can have in play to interfere with what the opponent is doing...
Like Kinjali shuts down a lot of token decks or at least makes sure you get a chance to reply.

Things like Angrath's ultimate or Psychic feedback or Psychic Venom or Jace's Defeat that either punish the opponent for their loop or help disrupt it, we need more things like that.

I like new and crazy cards and don't want to call for a nerf for everything but I do think there should answers to most general strategies at the common/uncommon level.

I very much agree. Prism Array was such a dangerous card because it punished your opponent for running a certain effective strategy. Insidious Will put the brakes on a lot of decks as well. More cards like that would keep any one strategy from being too dominant. 

Also, remember Sphinx's Decree? That card OP said everyone should play? That would completely shut this deck down. 

Rhasget

The amount of ID decks I have faced this last week has ramped alot. Today alone in AI I played against three and one sofar in TG.

One had this combo with Immortal Sun but it never took off and just fizzled throughout the game.

Froggy

Not broken. Very powerful. But not broken.

Without ID, you could not make that endless loop deck using IS. But without IS, you could not make that ID loop (once NP rotates out).

But you can still make a loop deck with NP, without using IS.

So in the end - which card is truly broken? (Not counting NP). I’d say neither. Just an annoying and **** combo to face, if it gets going...

Theros

most opponents I faced last event were bola running some kind NP/ID combos, haven't seen the IM variants. Only 5 people i faced during the entire event were not bolas. will be glad is NP rotates out