Black Widow (Infinity War) (5/1/18)

24

Comments

  • Rick_OShayRick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2018
    Since all powers in this format are listed at 5 Covers, I wonder which would need to be specced at 3 or 4.
    Perhaps yellow? Maybe 5/4/4 if the effects are not too diminished at 4?

    (PASSIVE) At the start of the turn, if the enemy is Stunned, Black Widow destroys 3 enemy AP in a random color.
    Should this read: "if AN enemy is stunned", or is it: "if the TARGET enemy is stunned" ?  Because I often rotate a stunned enemy to the back. Otherwise you would need to keep the stunned enemy in front to reduce their AP.

    I second the question about which color the invisibility tiles are placed on. Naturally we would assume all 4 are on purple (like Howard, as mentioned), but this could be the first time they are on random colors.   
    I was wondering why you would even spend the 10 purple AP on Enfilade when you could simply stay invisible. But, gaining the destroyed invisibility tile AP, along with the potential enemy-special-tile AP, makes this a very useful ability.

    Good design on paper, looking forward to 4BW.
  • BorstockBorstock Posts: 1,234 Chairperson of the Boards
    JHawkInc said:
    Brigby said:
    *Update: Black Widow's SHIELD Training event has Spider-Woman as the required character, not Spider-Gwen. Apologies for the confusion.
    Whelp, there goes the reasonable pattern you guys had established. Tossed it out the window because people had some grasp on what was coming.

    Like it matters?
  • Player1575Player1575 Posts: 253 Mover and Shaker
    waywreth said:
    Can you please confirm the event wasn't modified so only 1st place receives a cover?
    Can a developer confirm this please? 
  • Shintok17Shintok17 Posts: 620 Critical Contributor
    waywreth said:
    Can you please confirm the event wasn't modified so only 1st place receives a cover?
    Can a developer confirm this please? 
    You do not get the reference or the joke I guess. He is making a joke about only the 1st place of the Season is awarded the Infinity Stone Support. Nothing to do with the 4* Black Widow cover. It's just a good joke.  :D
  • CNashCNash Posts: 934 Critical Contributor
    Brigby said:
    Enfilade - 10 purpletilepng AP
    The Black Widow emerges from the shadows and strikes out with her batons, surprising her enemy with a tactical strike. Black Widow destroys her Invisibility tile(s) and destroys 4 enemy special tiles, dealing damage and gaining AP. If there are no Invisibility tiles on the board, this power becomes Defilade.
    Can this power fire if there are no enemy special tiles on the board? If so should it be worded "destroys up to 4 enemy special tiles"?
  • Rick_OShayRick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2018
    CNash said:
    Brigby said:
    Enfilade - 10 purpletilepng AP
    The Black Widow emerges from the shadows and strikes out with her batons, surprising her enemy with a tactical strike. Black Widow destroys her Invisibility tile(s) and destroys 4 enemy special tiles, dealing damage and gaining AP. If there are no Invisibility tiles on the board, this power becomes Defilade.
    Can this power fire if there are no enemy special tiles on the board? If so should it be worded "destroys up to 4 enemy special tiles"?

    I think it's safe to assume the answer to both of your questions is yes, but we've been surprised before. 
    One thing of note, now that the preview is up in the game, we should be able to take the phrase 'destroys x enemy special tiles' to also include Countdown Tiles, which is a big deal. 
    Power descriptions that only destroy Strike, Attack, and Protect tiles, always lists them out specifically. Generically referencing Special Tiles will certainly mean to include CD's in that description. 
  • VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 4,190 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2018
    This Black Widow looks REALLY good. Love that she has a stun on Black. Also always looking for Yellow/Purple actives and she seems better than MEH and Fury. 

    Sad Strange Sights is the release event though. It’s the one PVE I usually score outside T10 for. Stupid doors!
    Am I going crazy?  She seems borderline terrible.  Black is decent, but 8ap stuns are meh. Would much rather have a 6ap stun like ice, gamora, or (sort of) nova.  Her purple is bad
     17 ap to do a bit of damage and destroy some enemy specials?  Ick.  And 7ap for invis is fine, but hardly anything to get excited about.  And her yellow is awful.  This is basically st4r-lord's old yellow with a higher cost and a big burst heal added on.  It was a bad power before, and burst healing won't change my opinion. Especially not at a higher ap cost. 

    She seems lower-middle tier.  What am I missing with her? 

    Edited to clarify my discussion of stuns. Autocorrect doesn't like "ap".
  • AnonAnon Posts: 1,020 Chairperson of the Boards
    1,461 damage for 8 Black? That's horrible even with the stun. As for the Purple, I don't see the secondary cast as necessary. Might just use it to turn her invisible. Yellow isn't so bad. 10 isn't oppressive, and a 3ap discount on powers is nice.

    First impressions is 3/5/5 unless the Black ability is wrong. Lower-middle tier sounds about right.
  • RichyyyRichyyy Posts: 305 Mover and Shaker
    Vhailorx said:
    This Black Widow looks REALLY good. Love that she has a stun on Black. Also always looking for Yellow/Purple actives and she seems better than MEH and Fury. 

    Sad Strange Sights is the release event though. It’s the one PVE I usually score outside T10 for. Stupid doors!
    Am I going crazy?  She seems borderline terrible.  Black is decent, but up stuns are meh. Would much rather have a nap stun like ice, gamora, or (sort of) nova.  Her purple is bad
     17 ap to do a bit of damage and destroy some enemy specials?  Ick.  And map for invis is fine, but hardly anything to get excited about.  And her yellow is awful.  This is basically st4r-lord's old yellow with a higher cost and a big burst heal added on.  It was a bad power before, and burst healing won't change my opinion. Especially not at a higher ap cost. 

    She seems lower-middle tier.  What am I missing with her? 
    I was staying quiet because the general attitude here was positive, but yeah, my view was pretty much "blech". A mid-cost stun (why bring her instead of Gamora?), moderately expensive invisibility (generally a pretty useless power) crossed with wildly expensive damage, and Starlord's passive except you have to pay 10 yellow for it. Pass.
  • YepyepYepyep Posts: 650 Critical Contributor
    Vhailorx said:

    ... but up stuns are meh. Would much rather have a nap stun like ice, gamora, or (sort of) nova.  ...  
    Sorry, but what are you talking about? What is an "up stun" and what is a "nap stun?"
  • QuebbsterQuebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    No change to Purple on level 4... guess they want it to be at either 3 or 5 covers. I guess Yellow is the only one that needs to be maxed out, so I guess it's 3/5/5 or 5/3/5 depending on how you value black and Purple.
  • BasepuzzlerBasepuzzler Posts: 173 Tile Toppler
    The only way to look at a new character is how they will play with gambit.  And a black stun/AP destruction along with a yellow that lets you fire gambit’s powers more makes her a good support for the best character out there.
  • Tiger_WongTiger_Wong Posts: 381 Mover and Shaker
    Wait.... so the only way to look at a new 4* character is to see how they go with a 5* character? Even though, you’re not gonna use a 4* with a champed 5*?
  • StraycatStraycat Posts: 962 Critical Contributor
    In her shield training loaner node, boy is she underwhelming. Even with a team that spawn enemy tiles, 17 purple is too much. Her 2 stage purple needs some kind of passive. Give her a reason to stay invisible, or a counter if her tile gets matched. 5/3/5, purple is bad enough to ignore.
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 3,380 Chairperson of the Boards
    Straycat said:
    In her shield training loaner node, boy is she underwhelming. Even with a team that spawn enemy tiles, 17 purple is too much. Her 2 stage purple needs some kind of passive. Give her a reason to stay invisible, or a counter if her tile gets matched. 5/3/5, purple is bad enough to ignore.
    I agree, animations seem real phoned in, the first since the animation disable feature came online that made me think that. Mine died mid-fight also, and I ended up letting my champ Yondu carry me through. 
  • mega ghostmega ghost Posts: 1,103 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2018
    As a stand-alone character, she's not great. But as a support character she seems solid. Her stun is far from the best in the tier, but the attached passive is noteworthy (RE: at 5 covers, it destroys 3 AP in a random color.) Pair her with a second stunner and this will keep the enemy team largely paralyzed.

    @Brigby How does the the destroying of the 3 AP work? Does it randomly select a color that has AP, guaranteeing AP destruction, or does it select a color and then if there's no AP in it then too bad, the power fires anyway and does nothing? 

    Her purple is lackluster. While the invisibility has the potential to make her a really annoying pest and potentially a long-term survivor (depending on the enemy team and tile placement), the second power should have been a passive and in exchange done less. For example, as long as she's invisible, it would passively destroy one enemy special tile a turn, dealing damage and gaining AP. I'd even take an additional handicap of stunning her for one turn if the enemy team destroys all of her invisibility tiles.

    Her yellow is good, if a bit pricey. Sure, Star-Lord has something similar (minus the burst heal) as a passive, but that only ever comes out against goons in PvE. Her yellow seems more geared towards PvP and assuming you have enough AP I could see it turning the tide of a match by keeping an ally in the game a bit longer and making several powers become usable. One question on the language though, @Brigby , does "ally powers cost 3 less AP to fire" include her powers, or only her teammate's powers?

    If it turns out her black can randomly select empty AP pools and be wasted and that her yellow AP reduction ability doesn't apply to her, then that reduces her value notably and I'd be more inclined to agree that she's lower mid-tier. 


  • BrigbyBrigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,543 Site Admin
    -snip-

    Brigby How does the the destroying of the 3 AP work? Does it randomly select a color that has AP, guaranteeing AP destruction, or does it select a color and then if there's no AP in it then too bad, the power fires anyway and does nothing? 

    -snip-
    I believe we've seen instances in the past where AP destruction abilities targeted pools with no AP in it, and in those cases they were considered bugs and/or unintended design. Based on that history, I would presume that Black Widow's ability will instead only randomly select one of the enemy pools that contains AP, and ignore any that don't.
  • DavidAmaquelinDavidAmaquelin Posts: 43 Just Dropped In

    A good character only if paired with certain characters. Alone is just a medium to low tier 4*. Just take a look at the Shield Training example. BW/Yondu/Venow VS MaxPunisher/Beast/Daken

    You can be invisible but it´s not enough. In my opinion she looks like the new invisible woman...

  • mega ghostmega ghost Posts: 1,103 Chairperson of the Boards
    Brigby said:
    -snip-

    Brigby How does the the destroying of the 3 AP work? Does it randomly select a color that has AP, guaranteeing AP destruction, or does it select a color and then if there's no AP in it then too bad, the power fires anyway and does nothing? 

    -snip-
    I believe we've seen instances in the past where AP destruction abilities targeted pools with no AP in it, and in those cases they were considered bugs and/or unintended design. Based on that history, I would presume that Black Widow's ability will instead only randomly select one of the enemy pools that contains AP, and ignore any that don't.
    Thanks @Brigby I actually didn't realize that was unintended design in the past! Also, RE: her yellow, do you know if "ally powers cost 3 less AP to fire" include her powers, or only her teammate's powers?
  • BrigbyBrigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,543 Site Admin
    Brigby said:
    I believe we've seen instances in the past where AP destruction abilities targeted pools with no AP in it, and in those cases they were considered bugs and/or unintended design. Based on that history, I would presume that Black Widow's ability will instead only randomly select one of the enemy pools that contains AP, and ignore any that don't.
    Thanks Brigby I actually didn't realize that was unintended design in the past! Also, RE: her yellow, do you know if "ally powers cost 3 less AP to fire" include her powers, or only her teammate's powers?
    Keep in mind though, I'm not a developer, so it might be better to get final confirmation of that from them. Having said that though, I did a bit of testing with her, and so far it seems like she does in fact only target AP pools that has some amount of AP in it.

    I can also confirm that her Brush Pass ability does reduce her own powers, as well.
Sign In or Register to comment.