Black Widow (Infinity War) (5/1/18)

Borstock

JHawkInc said:

Brigby said:

*Update: Black Widow's SHIELD Training event has Spider-Woman as the required character, not Spider-Gwen. Apologies for the confusion.

Whelp, there goes the reasonable pattern you guys had established. Tossed it out the window because people had some grasp on what was coming.

Like it matters?

Player1575

waywreth said:

Can you please confirm the event wasn't modified so only 1st place receives a cover?

Can a developer confirm this please? 

Shintok17

Player1575 said:

waywreth said:

Can you please confirm the event wasn't modified so only 1st place receives a cover?

Can a developer confirm this please? 

You do not get the reference or the joke I guess. He is making a joke about only the 1st place of the Season is awarded the Infinity Stone Support. Nothing to do with the 4* Black Widow cover. It's just a good joke. 

CNash

Brigby said:

Enfilade - 10  AP

The Black Widow emerges from the shadows and strikes out with her batons, surprising her enemy with a tactical strike. Black Widow destroys her Invisibility tile(s) and destroys 4 enemy special tiles, dealing damage and gaining AP. If there are no Invisibility tiles on the board, this power becomes Defilade.

Can this power fire if there are no enemy special tiles on the board? If so should it be worded "destroys up to 4 enemy special tiles"?

Rick_OShay

CNash said:

Brigby said:

Enfilade - 10  AP

The Black Widow emerges from the shadows and strikes out with her batons, surprising her enemy with a tactical strike. Black Widow destroys her Invisibility tile(s) and destroys 4 enemy special tiles, dealing damage and gaining AP. If there are no Invisibility tiles on the board, this power becomes Defilade.

Can this power fire if there are no enemy special tiles on the board? If so should it be worded "destroys up to 4 enemy special tiles"?

I think it's safe to assume the answer to both of your questions is yes, but we've been surprised before. 
One thing of note, now that the preview is up in the game, we should be able to take the phrase 'destroys x enemy special tiles' to also include Countdown Tiles, which is a big deal. 
Power descriptions that only destroy Strike, Attack, and Protect tiles, always lists them out specifically. Generically referencing Special Tiles will certainly mean to include CD's in that description. 

Vhailorx

Daredevil217 said:

This Black Widow looks REALLY good. Love that she has a stun on Black. Also always looking for Yellow/Purple actives and she seems better than MEH and Fury. 

Sad Strange Sights is the release event though. It’s the one PVE I usually score outside T10 for. Stupid doors!

Am I going crazy?  She seems borderline terrible.  Black is decent, but 8ap stuns are meh. Would much rather have a 6ap stun like ice, gamora, or (sort of) nova.  Her purple is bad
 17 ap to do a bit of damage and destroy some enemy specials?  Ick.  And 7ap for invis is fine, but hardly anything to get excited about.  And her yellow is awful.  This is basically st4r-lord's old yellow with a higher cost and a big burst heal added on.  It was a bad power before, and burst healing won't change my opinion. Especially not at a higher ap cost. 

She seems lower-middle tier.  What am I missing with her? 

Edited to clarify my discussion of stuns. Autocorrect doesn't like "ap".

Anon

1,461 damage for 8 Black? That's horrible even with the stun. As for the Purple, I don't see the secondary cast as necessary. Might just use it to turn her invisible. Yellow isn't so bad. 10 isn't oppressive, and a 3ap discount on powers is nice.

First impressions is 3/5/5 unless the Black ability is wrong. Lower-middle tier sounds about right.

Richyyy

Vhailorx said:

Daredevil217 said:

This Black Widow looks REALLY good. Love that she has a stun on Black. Also always looking for Yellow/Purple actives and she seems better than MEH and Fury. 

Sad Strange Sights is the release event though. It’s the one PVE I usually score outside T10 for. Stupid doors!

Am I going crazy?  She seems borderline terrible.  Black is decent, but up stuns are meh. Would much rather have a nap stun like ice, gamora, or (sort of) nova.  Her purple is bad
 17 ap to do a bit of damage and destroy some enemy specials?  Ick.  And map for invis is fine, but hardly anything to get excited about.  And her yellow is awful.  This is basically st4r-lord's old yellow with a higher cost and a big burst heal added on.  It was a bad power before, and burst healing won't change my opinion. Especially not at a higher ap cost. 

She seems lower-middle tier.  What am I missing with her? 

I was staying quiet because the general attitude here was positive, but yeah, my view was pretty much "blech". A mid-cost stun (why bring her instead of Gamora?), moderately expensive invisibility (generally a pretty useless power) crossed with wildly expensive damage, and Starlord's passive except you have to pay 10 yellow for it. Pass.

Yepyep

Vhailorx said:

... but up stuns are meh. Would much rather have a nap stun like ice, gamora, or (sort of) nova.  ...  

Sorry, but what are you talking about? What is an "up stun" and what is a "nap stun?"

Quebbster

No change to Purple on level 4... guess they want it to be at either 3 or 5 covers. I guess Yellow is the only one that needs to be maxed out, so I guess it's 3/5/5 or 5/3/5 depending on how you value black and Purple.

Basepuzzler

The only way to look at a new character is how they will play with gambit.  And a black stun/AP destruction along with a yellow that lets you fire gambit’s powers more makes her a good support for the best character out there.

Tiger_Wong

Wait.... so the only way to look at a new 4* character is to see how they go with a 5* character? Even though, you’re not gonna use a 4* with a champed 5*?

Straycat

In her shield training loaner node, boy is she underwhelming. Even with a team that spawn enemy tiles, 17 purple is too much. Her 2 stage purple needs some kind of passive. Give her a reason to stay invisible, or a counter if her tile gets matched. 5/3/5, purple is bad enough to ignore.

ThaRoadWarrior

Straycat said:

In her shield training loaner node, boy is she underwhelming. Even with a team that spawn enemy tiles, 17 purple is too much. Her 2 stage purple needs some kind of passive. Give her a reason to stay invisible, or a counter if her tile gets matched. 5/3/5, purple is bad enough to ignore.

I agree, animations seem real phoned in, the first since the animation disable feature came online that made me think that. Mine died mid-fight also, and I ended up letting my champ Yondu carry me through. 

mega ghost

As a stand-alone character, she's not great. But as a support character she seems solid. Her stun is far from the best in the tier, but the attached passive is noteworthy (RE: at 5 covers, it destroys 3 AP in a random color.) Pair her with a second stunner and this will keep the enemy team largely paralyzed.

@Brigby How does the the destroying of the 3 AP work? Does it randomly select a color that has AP, guaranteeing AP destruction, or does it select a color and then if there's no AP in it then too bad, the power fires anyway and does nothing? 

Her purple is lackluster. While the invisibility has the potential to make her a really annoying pest and potentially a long-term survivor (depending on the enemy team and tile placement), the second power should have been a passive and in exchange done less. For example, as long as she's invisible, it would passively destroy one enemy special tile a turn, dealing damage and gaining AP. I'd even take an additional handicap of stunning her for one turn if the enemy team destroys all of her invisibility tiles.

Her yellow is good, if a bit pricey. Sure, Star-Lord has something similar (minus the burst heal) as a passive, but that only ever comes out against goons in PvE. Her yellow seems more geared towards PvP and assuming you have enough AP I could see it turning the tide of a match by keeping an ally in the game a bit longer and making several powers become usable. One question on the language though, @Brigby , does "ally powers cost 3 less AP to fire" include her powers, or only her teammate's powers?

If it turns out her black can randomly select empty AP pools and be wasted and that her yellow AP reduction ability doesn't apply to her, then that reduces her value notably and I'd be more inclined to agree that she's lower mid-tier. 

Brigby

mega ghost said:

-snip-

Brigby How does the the destroying of the 3 AP work? Does it randomly select a color that has AP, guaranteeing AP destruction, or does it select a color and then if there's no AP in it then too bad, the power fires anyway and does nothing? 

-snip-

I believe we've seen instances in the past where AP destruction abilities targeted pools with no AP in it, and in those cases they were considered bugs and/or unintended design. Based on that history, I would presume that Black Widow's ability will instead only randomly select one of the enemy pools that contains AP, and ignore any that don't.

DavidAmaquelin

A good character only if paired with certain characters. Alone is just a medium to low tier 4*. Just take a look at the Shield Training example. BW/Yondu/Venow VS MaxPunisher/Beast/Daken

You can be invisible but it´s not enough. In my opinion she looks like the new invisible woman...

mega ghost

Brigby said:

mega ghost said:

-snip-

Brigby How does the the destroying of the 3 AP work? Does it randomly select a color that has AP, guaranteeing AP destruction, or does it select a color and then if there's no AP in it then too bad, the power fires anyway and does nothing? 

-snip-

I believe we've seen instances in the past where AP destruction abilities targeted pools with no AP in it, and in those cases they were considered bugs and/or unintended design. Based on that history, I would presume that Black Widow's ability will instead only randomly select one of the enemy pools that contains AP, and ignore any that don't.

Thanks @Brigby I actually didn't realize that was unintended design in the past! Also, RE: her yellow, do you know if "ally powers cost 3 less AP to fire" include her powers, or only her teammate's powers?

Brigby

mega ghost said:

Brigby said:
I believe we've seen instances in the past where AP destruction abilities targeted pools with no AP in it, and in those cases they were considered bugs and/or unintended design. Based on that history, I would presume that Black Widow's ability will instead only randomly select one of the enemy pools that contains AP, and ignore any that don't.

Thanks Brigby I actually didn't realize that was unintended design in the past! Also, RE: her yellow, do you know if "ally powers cost 3 less AP to fire" include her powers, or only her teammate's powers?

Keep in mind though, I'm not a developer, so it might be better to get final confirmation of that from them. Having said that though, I did a bit of testing with her, and so far it seems like she does in fact only target AP pools that has some amount of AP in it.

I can also confirm that her Brush Pass ability does reduce her own powers, as well.

rocks52

So is Romanoff the first person to have an iteration at all 5 tiers?