Are supports already dead?

veny
veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
in MPQ Supports Discussion
Just wondering, since 3 Riso reward in PvE remains (always makes me laugh... or cry?) and that 7500HP offer disappeared without being replaced. Briefly said, there are some players running with 4* or 5* supports while others cant get any support above 3*.
Any... ehm... plans to fix this?
«134

Comments

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2018
    Support has been out for less than 2 weeks. If it takes 1 to 2 years to champ a 4 or 5* characters:

    1) How fast do you expect to level up your support?

    2) What's your expectation for a support to be useable? What minimum level should it be?

    3) how much red iso should the developers give you per node instead of 3 red iso?

    4) if Rank 4 or Rank 5 Supports are easily gotten, what are their worth?

    5) How often should the developers offer 3 4* covers plus a bunch of other resources (red iso, support token etc) in the store?

    I think it's quite obvious that the bulk of your red iso comes from dupe:

    Rank 1 dupe = 1,400 red iso
    Rank 2 dupe = 7,000 red iso
    Rank 3 dupe = 12,000 red iso
    Rank 4 dupe = 16,000 red iso
    Rank 5 dupe = 24,000 red iso

    If you only care about dealing as much damages as possible, the effects won't be noticeable at low level. Noticeable effects are those fortification effects,  base colour damage increment, special tiles etc. 
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    edited April 2018
    Look, i am not talking about Supports taking months to be leveled up, i am talking about two things:
    1) 3 - 10 Riso is damn low reward, compared to 1000+ of Riso from progress rewards. How much do i want? Well, 50-100 or more would make sense, considering the progress rewards. For less, i would not even bother fighting overleveled characters at SCL 9.
    2) High level tokens cannot be bought so 4* and 5* Supports are unavailable to everyone who hasnt bought them before, and i want to know when can we get them, and how.

    *Removed insult - Ducky
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2018
    "You can earn additional Supports by redeeming Support tokens. Support tokens can be earned in Season rewards (starting with the upcoming Reality Season which begins May 3rd) and found in vaults and bundles."

    It was available to everyone when it was first launched but not everyone took up the offer to buy it with HP. So, they missed the boat. 

    https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/71833/brand-new-supports-feature-4-5-18
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,501 Chairperson of the Boards
    Personally I don't think we will see a full rollout until next season.  Still feels like this is friends and family soft open.  

    really we are just alpha testing
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    Phumade said:
    Personally I don't think we will see a full rollout until next season.  Still feels like this is friends and family soft open.  

    really we are just alpha testing
    Yeah, thats why i wanted to know if there some plans for tokens with higher tiers supps. Should have posted it in "Ask a dev" section, but i couldnt find it :D
    I feel there should be some more transparency and comunication during alpha/beta/whatever testing. Or maybe bills are the best feedback :D
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I can't help you from being less negative. If Master Token were made easily available to everyone, then what's the point of making it Rank 5? Just do away with all the ranks and let the players enjoy all 5 or 6 perks for each Support gained right from the beginning. 

    To add on:

    What’s Coming Next For Supports?
    Supports only work in Story missions right now, so that you have a chance to collect and explore them, and we have a chance to respond to your feedback, before we add them to Versus events.
     
    We expect that we might need to make balance adjustments to this first batch of Supports in response to your feedback. We’ll also be experimenting with different ways to get Supports and Red Iso-8. Let us know what you think!

    I think they have given enough details as of now. A date has already been set (3rd May). How would knowing future info right now regarding Master Support Tokens change your in-game experience now? It doesn't change anything. Be patient.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2018
    I'm not sure if you are the same poster dropping the word "paywall" here and there, but as far as I know, HP is gotten for free. It's not compulsory to buy them. If the only way you can get HP is by using cash, then I agree that it's hiding behind a paywall. 

    They were available in a limited time offer, but apparently, you didn't get them in time or refuse to "pay" 7500HP for it. 

    In your opinion, what's a reasonable amount the developers should "price" that offer instead of 3600HP(?) (Dr Strange)  and 7500HP (3 R4G covers plus other resources) so that they won't be classified as "paywall"? How long should they make a "limited time offer" available? Until you hit 7500HP? What's your definition of "paywall"?




  • Shintok17
    Shintok17 Posts: 620 Critical Contributor
    They are not dead. It's going to take sometime to get off the ground. It's still fairly new. I use my level 67 5* Wong that I equipped on 3* Strange in all Story events. The rest of the supports I just equip and forget. It serves it's function and fires of many times during matches. I don't mind waiting a couple of PVE or PVP to level it up. Don't we already do the same with Regular ISO when leveling our 4*'s or any other tier. So It's nothing new.
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    HoundofShadow said:
    I'm not sure if you are the same poster dropping the word "paywall" here and there, but as far as I know, HP is gotten for free. It's not compulsory to buy them. If the only way you can get HP is by using cash, then I agree that it's hiding behind a paywall. 

    They were available in a limited time offer, but apparently, you didn't get them in time or refuse to "pay" 7500HP for it. 

    In your opinion, what's a reasonable amount the developers should "price" that offer instead of 3600HP(?) (Dr Strange)  and 7500HP (3 R4G covers plus other resources) so that they won't be classified as "paywall"? How long should they make a "limited time offer" available? Until you hit 7500HP? What's your definition of "paywall"?




    Yes, i agree HPs can be obtained for free, but you can hardly get 7500HP in one week (or how long exactly took this limited time offer) without paying.
    As long as limited time offers are replaced by another with same value, i am fine with it, but they werent and thats my question from the very beginning - when and how we can get 4* and 5* supps again?
    Dont want to discuss prices here, since MPQ operates on global market and paying 40€ (equivalent of one or even two discounted AAA games) for virtual character is... well, unacceptable for someone whose salary is 700€, which is almost average sum in my country. Anyway, my goal is not to dictate what price is acceptable.
    Point is, limited time offer was limited, and free2play players had no chance to save HPs for it (unless they had savings in some form) and i would like to know, if similar offers will become standars (if yes, then fine, as we both agreed, HPs can be pretty easily farmed after hitting 4* land) or what sources of Supports we can expect (it is pretty obvious we wont be getting 4*s and 5*s for free thanks to the system of "one supp is enough".
  • Rhipf
    Rhipf Posts: 295 Mover and Shaker
    What I find interesting with supports is that you can only earn the tokens in PvP but supports are only useful in PvE.
  • UNC_Samurai
    UNC_Samurai Posts: 402 Mover and Shaker
    edited April 2018
    I’m not trying to be excessively negative (just constructively negative).  I burned some HP getting a couple of standard tokens, and I missed a chance to buy one of the bundles for a higher-tier token.  That happens, I jumped the gun.  But I’ve opened 2-3 support tokens and haven’t gotten a single Rank 2 support.  So I’m sitting here with a handful of Rank 1 supports that have almost no utility in the 4-5* tiers.  

    I threw my Tower on 5* Thor, so there’s a small chance he’ll start the match with 2 extra yellow AP.  
    Star-Lord’s quad-blasters were nice in the Thanos event, running with boosted G4mora and RG4; I occasionally got some AP.  The only other useful Support at the moment for me is the Henchmen and the remote possibility they’ll fortify a tile, though you need just the right team to exploit that.

    Other than that, I have the WWII shield and the three ships.  None of them really make a difference even at the 3* level.  They might be fun if I cpuld equip my 2*s and use them in the daily missions.  Otherwise they’re collecting virtual dust.

    I like the concept, and I want to see it succeed, but two weeks in and my olay experience wouldn’t be any different if supports hadn’t launched yet.  It’s like we’re told about this amazing new LEGO set, but all we got to start with were the instruction booklet and 5 red 2x4 blocks.

    it would be nice to see some means of acquiring tokens outside of getting super-lucky in the vaults.  Maybe have a standard token instead of riso at the 1k mark in PvP.  I’d just like a chance to get at least a second rank on a support so I can actually mess around with some of the features.
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,501 Chairperson of the Boards
    UNC_Samurai said:
    I’m not trying to be excessively negative (just constructively negative).  I burned some HP getting a couple of standard tokens, and I missed a chance to buy one of the bundles for a higher-tier token.  That happens, I jumped the gun.  But I’ve opened 2-3 support tokens and haven’t gotten a single Rank 2 support.  So I’m sitting here with a handful of Rank 1 supports that have almost no utility in the 4-5* tiers.  

    I threw my Tower on 5* Thor, so there’s a small chance he’ll start the match with 2 extra yellow AP.  
    Star-Lord’s quad-blasters were nice in the Thanos event, running with boosted G4mora and RG4; I occasionally got some AP.  The only other useful Support at the moment for me is the Henchmen and the remote possibility they’ll fortify a tile, though you need just the right team to exploit that.

    Other than that, I have the WWII shield and the three ships.  None of them really make a difference even at the 3* level.  They might be fun if I cpuld equip my 2*s and use them in the daily missions.  Otherwise they’re collecting virtual dust.

    I like the concept, and I want to see it succeed, but two weeks in and my olay experience wouldn’t be any different if supports hadn’t launched yet.  It’s like we’re told about this amazing new LEGO set, but all we got to start with were the instruction booklet and 5 red 2x4 blocks.

    it would be nice to see some means of acquiring tokens outside of getting super-lucky in the vaults.  Maybe have a standard token instead of riso at the 1k mark in PvP.  I’d just like a chance to get at least a second rank on a support so I can actually mess around with some of the features.
    This is where you will see supports in 5* play.

    the match damage boosts are generally enough to changing color tanking.  So for alot of rosters they will now be able to have someone else tank red and yellow for 5* thor.  Thats a huge advantage in pve when you can reliablely hide 1/2 thor behind someone else.

    The ap boosts are really just a bonus side effect.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm not sure how difficult it is to understand these two paragraphs as far as getting support tokens is concerned:

    1. "You can earn additional Supports by redeeming Support tokens. Support tokens can be earned in Season rewards (starting with the upcoming Reality Season which begins May 3rd) and found in vaults and bundles."

    There are three ways: Season rewards, vaults and bundles. Bundles come every now and then. It's not going to go away. I don't think it's your first week in MPQ? Vaults and Season rewards are always there. It's rare probably because there are limited supports now (14) and any extra support token will be converted into a thousand or more red iso.

    2. We’ll also be experimenting with different ways to get Supports and Red Iso-8. 

    And X more ways... 



  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    First, there are 3 types of Support tokens:

    1) Beginner pack contains a Rank 1, 2, or 3 Support. (~1:3 for Rank 2 and ~1:20 for Rank 3)

    2) Advanced pack contains a Rank 2, 3, or 4 Support.

    3) Master pack contains a Rank 4 or 5 Support

    It looks similar to Standard Token, Heroic Token and LT /Classic Legends to me. Putting things into context:

    Rank 1 dupe = 1,400 red iso
    Rank 2 dupe = 7,000 red iso
    Rank 3 dupe = 12,000 red iso
    Rank 4 dupe = 16,000 red iso
    Rank 5 dupe = 24,000 red iso

    It's straightforward. It's either progression rewards, placement rewards or both. Based on the available information, it's not difficult to guess that if it's progression rewards, it's likely Beginner pack. If it's Advanced or Master pack, then it's placement rewards, alliance awards or progression reward at between 8000 to 12,000 points. 

    As for vault, there is only 1 Beginner pack in PvE vault and its rarity is similar to 4* or LT. There is 1/80 probability of getting it.

    As for bundles, it comes and goes. Again, it's likely one offer per month or every quarter or so for Advanced/Master pack.

    If any of the pack appears too often, they either have to speed up the number of new supports each month or reduce the red iso from duplicates. 

    As for currency, it's either using CP and/or HP. It's not difficult to guess. If they use red iso or introduce new resources specifically for Support tokens, we'll know what's going to happen next.

    Looking at changes they made over the year, they did not ignore your game history. For example, extra Iso-8 when new shield ranks were created and feeders for 5* even if your level is way ahead of the first 5* cover from feeder. They said they will be experimenting with different ways of getting support tokens and red iso. Obviously by now, they are aware that top level players are not getting much earth-shattering benefits to their current PvE gameplay.

    It's not difficult to see what the different ways could be:

    1) through drops
    2) champed level rewards
    3) selling maxed champed characters
    4) daily rewards
    5) Shield Rank

    And more. You don't need to be creative to tell what the different ways could be. 

    Look, it's only the 10th day since the in-game existence of Support and we are about 10 days away from 3rd of May, a Thursday. This make it almost a month since the announcement of Support token. Chances are more info would be out this coming Thursday. I don't understand the obsession with wanting to know full details of future information months or weeks in advance. Is it distressing to discover changes in-game or to be a little surprise or patient?

Categories