Broken MMR penalizes players for progress

tiomono

Sabaton74 said:

bluewolf said:

ursopro said:

Holy necro bump, Batman!

Seriously....

@Sabaton74

It sure seems like a lot of your comments are on very old threads......

If you are interested in a topic that isn't fairly current (a month, maybe) it's usually best to create a new thread since the game does change.

Thx for the courtesy tip, I'll keep it mind...

Now that I look, this thread was done 5 months before I found the game, seems like it's still a hot topic tho

Bringing back an old discussion is fine as long as its contents are still relevant in the game right now. 

If it gives outdated/flat out wrong info for the current state of the game then you need to start a new discussion.

Sabaton74

Green stripes close old threads right? I've seen a couple in these rabbit trails...

fight4thedream

Mod note: Since there seems to be some confusion regarding our necro-thread policy, I think this is a good opportunity to clarify that policy. The current policy regarding necroing old threads focuses on the content of thread and whether the information in that thread is still relevant and the post that necro'd the thread contributes to that discussion.

As @tiomono pointed out, if the information in such threads is outdated or no longer valid, we ask that the user start a new thread. The mod team is aware that @Sabaton74 has a tendency to revive old threads but to their credit their posts have directly addressed the discussions taking place and as far as I am aware none of the discussions required closing due to outdated information. 

I know that previously we had a 30-day policy that was pretty strictly enforced for a long period of time, but we came to the conclusion that such a policy was not new-user friendly and lacked nuance. I think this thread is actually a great example of why such a policy was abandoned. While most of our older forum members are aware of the MMR issue in PvP, it is very likely that newer users don't and would find the information and discussion in this thread helpful.

As far as I know, no significant changes have occurred to PvP MMR (please feel free to correct me if I am wrong) so I see no reason to close it and have a new thread made. I hope that clears up some questions on moderation policy. 

A_Wise_Man

There may not have been changes to pvp MMR since this thread was made, but the main post is full of incorrect information, half of which the OP doesnt even agree with anymore.

Jwallyr

OP here- and after skimming my first post I don't see anything in it with which I disagree, more than a year later, nor any obviously "incorrect information". Sure, my first post doesn't delve into the metagame aspects of PvP, but that's precisely because the point was that the in-game engine clearly encourages players to "develop their rosters" in a way that has a significant potential to hurt players that "develop" the "wrong" characters, impacting their MMR and forcing harder opponents without regard for the player's actual ability to compete.

So, more than a year later and I 100% stand by my original stance in this discussion, which is that, as implemented, the game's MMR scheme essentially penalizes players who, using only the information provided in-game, naively roster and level characters that may not be meta-relevant within their given tiers, resulting in a poor pvp experience. Nothing to my knowledge has changed about the PvP scheme; my personal roster has improved such that I'm typically able to field whatever combination of 4stars emerges as the "meta" for a given event, but it *has* caused me to actively avoid leveling the 5stars I have, despite their potential to make my PvE experience better, simply because I don't want to be penalized in PvP for having them.

If there's an actual factual error in my OP I'm happy to discuss it, or some clear way in which my reasoning breaks down, but... I don't see it.

WiDoW0042

I have 2 5*’s champed at level 451.  All the others have been left alone.  I generally only fight with one, but I regularly get beat by 550 Thorkoye teams whose owners have numerous 5* champs in the 500’s.  That said, I thoroughly enjoy exacting revenge by dropping whales on them.

Xair

just thinking out loud, one way the mmr could be improved is by multiplying the level of a champion with a factor that is determined by the number of skins the char has.
for example a championed char (more than 13 skins) would receive a factor of 1 multiplier.
where as a level 300 5* that only has 3 skins, would receive a multiplier of 0.6 (just an example) making it the equivalent of a level 180 championed char (in essence slightly stronger than a 3*).
thus when rosters are compared even though a person might have 5 level 300 5*, with only 3 skins each, he would still not be matched against the top meta 4* teams which according to current mmr are weaker but in fact are way stronger.

using such a multiplier would avert the current mmr problem of players not wanting to level their next tier.
also the exact multiplier to be used can be calculated by testing the relative power of un-championed chars to the lesser tier meta champions, and thus getting a good estimation that will make the mmr much better very quickly with practically zero effort on the dev team.