Detailed Red Iso-8 Feedback - TLDR Summary - Need way more Red Iso-8 in the game

jackstar0

3 Red Iso?

3?

That's pretty pathetic.

Basepuzzler

3 iso is just silly.  

bluewolf

How did the community like the 20 iso reward?  It was so disliked that they actually removed it from the game.  This seems like a similar situation.

3 red iso. Even 5 somehow sounds a lot better, if it has to be single digits.

pheregas

I'm not against the idea of supports.  But right now, even though the red iso costs are a fair bit higher than we'd all be comfortable with, it doesn't really matter.  As had been said numerous times, the supports that exist do relatively nothing to those in the 4/5 tier so apply them or don't, it won't make much of a difference.

To break it down further:  In the vault, I have a 1:80 chance to get an additional chance to pull (5% Rank 3, 33% Rank 2, 62% Rank 1).  That's some seriously low odds of success.

We also already have an iso bottleneck.  A second one seems silly.

A better way to implement this would not have been the iso-level system, but like the champion system.

For as rare as these things are to get anyway, just apply a dupe cover.  Now the support is level 2.  Every 10 levels unlocks a new rank tier.  50 dupe covers applied gives the maximum Rank 5 bonuses.  This will still take a long, long time, but is a lot more straightforward and doesn't leave me to hoard red iso just in case a better support falls into my lap and I am filled with red iso leveling remorse.

People are already quite used to the championing system.

But if the dev's are committed to pursuing red iso, then get rid of red iso progression rewards.  There should be Support Token rewards instead.  (Ideally at least 3 during progression and then a rarer one during placement rewards with Top 5 getting the rarest.) The real red iso earnings will come in the form of cashing in duplicates.  I mean, if I happen to fall into a rank 2 of Support X, then every single time I pull a Rank 1 of Support X it will be a lot more red iso that is currently available during progression/node rewards.



TLDR: Adding a limitedly available supports system that utilizes a second leveling system with a very limited resource is silly.  Adding an additional element of RNG into the game is frustrating.

ThaRoadWarrior

It seems like the premier way to acquire Red-Iso is to find high-level duplicate Supports, rather than earning it directly at the moment. Unfortunately, tokens seem SUPER scarce, limited to really top-level placement in events. I'll be curious how the economy of this feature evolves, and in the meantime I'm happy to stack Supports as i get them and sit on my riso.

Pants1000

Calnexin said:

I think you're starting with a false premise - that you need to fully level supports.  As with all things in this game, you can aim for it if you want, but it's not necessary.  Node difficulty has not increased, so anything you get from a support is extra power.  The only difference they're going to make is on competition for PvE placement, and since everyone has the same access to resources, the most diligent and/or strategic usage of supports will gain an upper hand.  There's no need to flood the resource to max everything, because then we're just right back to the old status quo of the haves and have-mores battling it out with the exact same teams (now with added support!)

Just let the things simmer for awhile, and maybe the strategy will actually be interesting.  Do you level up all your supports evenly to make the most out of the diversity, or focus all your resources on one to get the biggest bang for the buck on one set of abilities?  People will try different things, share strategies and opinions, and we'll all have a little more fun.

I agree with this, you don’t need them maxed out.  Do you have all your 5* at level 550?  I sure don’t.  I’m still able to enjoy my 5’s and there’s plenty of room for growth.  

They probably will continue to add ways to get more supports and red ISO.  I’m ok with starting slow.  

Calnexin

pheregas said:

 As had been said numerous times, the supports that exist do relatively nothing to those in the 4/5 tier so apply them or don't, it won't make much of a difference.

It's been said but I challenge that assumption.  Some of the advantages the supports give are absolutely relevant to the 4/5 tier.  Just from those I have, one gives a chance to produce attack tiles with a match-5.  If your team makes heavy use of strike tiles but can't ally with attack tiles, that's an in for doubling up your strikes.  The chance on a Lv 1 support is miniscule, but powered up to max it'll become a regular occurrence.  Another gives a percent chance to receive 2 yellow AP at the beginning of the match.  That doesn't seem like a lot, but a lot of high-level play relies on getting a power out quick, and shortening that window from 3 turns to 2 is a big deal.  Think how big that is if you're fielding IM40 and get a lucky yellow match-4.

None of them are likely to do anything dramatic right now, but don't count them out of high level play.  I'm specifically leveling the ones that provide things beyond raw number bonuses.

Heartbreaksoup

I have eight of the 14 supports.  Each morning, I level them each up one.  They're each at level 9 now.  I'm having fun.  I like seeing my teams get a little bonus health, or take a little less damage, as I go on.

I especially like pairing my 3* Dr Strange and 3* Spidey with various partners, and now that Spidey has these webshooters, he's the one doing the purple and blue damage and standing in front of Strange.  I prefer Strange to work from the shadows while Spidey and some other fighter dole out the punches.

Nick441234

bluewolf said:

How did the community like the 20 iso reward?  It was so disliked that they actually removed it from the game.  This seems like a similar situation.

3 red iso. Even 5 somehow sounds a lot better, if it has to be single digits.

If it has to be a single digit, I want 9! 

To be fair to the devs, the supports do get quite useful quite quickly. My level 4 Wong support is up to 45 and its starting to be very noticeable. 

Spudgutter

Nick441234 said:

bluewolf said:

How did the community like the 20 iso reward?  It was so disliked that they actually removed it from the game.  This seems like a similar situation.

3 red iso. Even 5 somehow sounds a lot better, if it has to be single digits.

If it has to be a single digit, I want 9! 

To be fair to the devs, the supports do get quite useful quite quickly. My level 4 Wong support is up to 45 and its starting to be very noticeable. 

To be fair, some are not as useful.  

Take a look at some of the other supports, and let me know if you would make the same statement if you had a rank 4 hail hydra or pizza dog or blackbird...

Its like comparing a low covered 5* gambit to 5* doc ock.  Are the both occasionally useful?  Yes.  But which one would you rather RNG bless you with, and which is going to have the longer term noticeable benefit?

LavaManLee

What are people's current levels to notice that supports do anything?  As someone with most 4*s champed and a few 5*s, I find the supports mostly worthless.

supergarv

This is a great thread and I really hope the devs digest it. They want us to play with new supports, but any player who thinks just a little bit of ressource management in this game will hoard and not play with it. A huge design flaw that needs addressing not only for this new feature but also for 5* progression; everyone just hoards tokens for at least half a year and this is not fun.

Felonius

Dragon_Nexus said:

I was trying to figure out why this didn't feel as exciting as previous large updates and I've figured out the obvious answer. There's no reward. When we got championing and you champed a 3*, what was the first thing you got? A legendary token. Costs 7,500 ISO to champ a 3* and most of us had most of our 3*s at 166 already. How many of us saw our 4* rosters explode with 20-40 new 4* covers straight away as we champed our 3*s? Not to mention knowing out 3* covers weren't just 500 ISO any more.

And then later when shield levels showed up. Grandfathered ISO gave me something like 8 million ISO to play with. Immediately I could champ some 4*s i'd been wanting to use. Gave me a huge boost forwards. Felt good to gain EXP that trickled towards another ISO reward, too.

What has Supports given us out of the gate? Basically nothing. We've had *no* benefit from this system what-so-ever in the week since it launched. If they removed the whole thing I don't know how long it would take me to even notice.

  So much ^^^THIS^^^  >rolls eyes<

Phumade

LavaManLee said:

What are people's current levels to notice that supports do anything?  As someone with most 4*s champed and a few 5*s, I find the supports mostly worthless.

alot of the supports are subtle but have much more pronunced effects in pvp.

specifically a 100 point boost to red match damage doesn't seem like much,  but it will change tanking priorities if you equipment to the right person.  i.e.  you have alot more control in establish which 5* tank each color.

Even though it might only save 15-20 secs per match in pve, your odds to win any one specific match goes up dramatically.  The supports will effectively allow your team to punch 10-15 champ levels above its normal strength.

Here the deal about supports.
You take 3 supports into the match.  everything you get from the supports is essentially free bonus.  If you can level them high enough so they are firing every 2-3 turns....(avg match is 5-9 rounds,  so each support gonna fry at least 1x)  The effects add up and make a difference.

Its even more pronounced in matches that have special tiles.  I run korg with thor, and avengers towers with america.  you can consistently see that combo pump out 2 to 3 special tiles and foritify tiles per round.

If you build good support combos that feed on each other.  the effects become really magnified.

Nick441234

Spudgutter said:

Nick441234 said:

bluewolf said:

How did the community like the 20 iso reward?  It was so disliked that they actually removed it from the game.  This seems like a similar situation.

3 red iso. Even 5 somehow sounds a lot better, if it has to be single digits.

If it has to be a single digit, I want 9! 

To be fair to the devs, the supports do get quite useful quite quickly. My level 4 Wong support is up to 45 and its starting to be very noticeable. 

To be fair, some are not as useful.  

Take a look at some of the other supports, and let me know if you would make the same statement if you had a rank 4 hail hydra or pizza dog or blackbird...

Its like comparing a low covered 5* gambit to 5* doc ock.  Are the both occasionally useful?  Yes.  But which one would you rather RNG bless you with, and which is going to have the longer term noticeable benefit?

Obviously, some are more useful than others. For instance, I really want Milano as I use Gamora and R&G a lot. However, I haven't been lucky enough to get that yet. They are all character dependent and some you just dont use. Its pointless complaining about RNG because its in the game and its going nowhere so you just have to hold onto your RISO until you do get a support that is useful with the characters you use. 

Nick441234

LavaManLee said:

What are people's current levels to notice that supports do anything?  As someone with most 4*s champed and a few 5*s, I find the supports mostly worthless.

My Wong, as mentioned above, is up to level 45 and I notice it up to its tricks fairly often now. 

wymtime

So for supports I feel like they are falling a little flat in the game right now.  The biggest reason why is because you need to really level up your supports to match your roster for them to be effective, and as of right now there is not much red iso in the game.  For just introducing supports I think it is ok to start off light in red iso and add more as the supports progress.  I think the issue is we have not been able to feel the full power supports can bring base on our levels.  I have a level 67 4* sharron carter and I keep it on one of my mainstay PVE and if something happens I rarely notice.

my suggestion is for a PVE event give all players a support boost so all supports players have will be level 5 and at level 250.  Number one by giving it to all players it will create an even playing field.  Number 2 it will allow players to feel the full power of supports and make us want to level them up.  Supports sound like they can have a lot of potential, but right now I feel like it is just better to hoard red iso and ignore supports until someone else figures out what is good and what isn’t.

MathiasTCK

Looks like you were right we needed more riso and we got it.

GKar

Took some time, but if we can be respectful and show them in a positive way I think we can influence more good changes for the life of the game.