Official request to NEVER make more cards that prevent use of planeswalker abilities

Elspeth_Tirel
Elspeth_Tirel Posts: 17 Just Dropped In
in MtGPQ General Discussion
I just lost a battle to Golden Guardian entirely thanks to Socerous Spyglass and I'm still a little salty about it, but it got me thinking: does anyone really like this mechanic? We spend hundreds of crystals on planeswalkers, then we spend tens of thousands of runes to level them up, then we build decks that are designed to synergize with their loyalty abilities... And then the opponent plays Sorcerous Spyglass and it's all worthless. It just strikes me as a really un-fun mechanic, and I wouldn't mind never seeing it again.
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Comments

  • TheF3C3SK1ng
    TheF3C3SK1ng Posts: 31 Just Dropped In
    While that card does drive me nuts, its not a game over card. At 4 shield (i think) its tough to break, but there is enough support control out there. I say leave it.
  • HomeRn
    HomeRn Posts: 330 Mover and Shaker
    edited April 2018
    TheF3C3SK1ng said:
    While that card does drive me nuts, its not a game over card. At 4 shield (i think) its tough to break, but there is enough support control out there. I say leave it.
    It's three shield IIRC - and loses one shield at the end of your (opponent's?) turn.  Which means it will likely not hang around.  This limiting the impact of not having your loyalty abilities, unlike The Immortal Sun which prevents both you and the AI from using loyalty abilities.

    I would actually like to see more of loyalty blocking supports to some degree - as many of the most popular PWs have some of the more annoying 1st and 2nd loyalty abilities (Kiora, Nahiri, Nicol, etc.).
  • Szamsziel
    Szamsziel Posts: 463 Mover and Shaker
    It's a support - and in current meta not having wide support removal is asking for a loss. Play around it, don't rely only on pws abilities. 
    I like spyglass (I don't own it - sometimes I steal it with etali though) - it's forcing me to adapt. 
  • Elspeth_Tirel
    Elspeth_Tirel Posts: 17 Just Dropped In
    To clarify, I don't think Sorcerous Spyglass is broken. With slightly better luck, I'd have been fine, either by destroying it outright or by matching it. I just don't think the mechanic is any fun. There are basically three things we get to do in a battle (match gems, play cards, activate abilities), and taking one of them away just makes for a dull game. I play casual paper Magic with a friend who mostly uses a mono-green elf deck, and I know she doesn't have a very good time when I cast Iona. It's the same sort of thing. I think there are plenty of other avenues to explore that don't involve stripping out one of the core mechanics of the game.
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    Of course I don't like the mechanic against me, but I like that it exists.  Its been a gap in the game for a long time that there were no loyalty or planeswalker ability interactions, and now we have them.  Its a good thing, and not something that's super broken either.
    Luckily for you we probably won't see many more cards like that, as thematically they are really specific to Ixalan and the Immortal Sun.
  • Sirchombli
    Sirchombli Posts: 322 Mover and Shaker
    It's annoying losing to a single card. Especially a support . There's support removal in every color but black, and white , red,  and green have multiple options. Sounds like you might need to run more. The card is annoying, but it shouldn't stop you dead . I , too , would enjoy seeing more of these cards rather than less. 
  • crusher
    crusher Posts: 11 Just Dropped In
    You don't actually lose to a support. You lose to support and a bunch of different cards casted in one turn with horrible cascade. I can feel pain of someone who wants to activate long awaited ability and is not able to do so. And if you guys can draw a support removal when you need it and it destroys the right support, you are magicians. 
  • Skiglass6
    Skiglass6 Posts: 149 Tile Toppler
    I actually like the idea of disrupting PW abilities. It adds a new layer that you may have to think about. I have and do not use Spyglass because I think it is to fragile for me. But I have used imortal sun against Koth several times in TG and I love it, because I hate Koth. Specifically in the OP scenario, now you know it is coming and you just have to adjust your plan of attack accordingly. 
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    Elspeth_Tirel said:
    I just lost a battle to Golden Guardian entirely thanks to Socerous Spyglass and I'm still a little salty about it, but it got me thinking: does anyone really like this mechanic? We spend hundreds of crystals on planeswalkers, then we spend tens of thousands of runes to level them up, then we build decks that are designed to synergize with their loyalty abilities... And then the opponent plays Sorcerous Spyglass and it's all worthless. It just strikes me as a really un-fun mechanic, and I wouldn't mind never seeing it again.


    The same can be said about many cards that prevent you from, attacking, casting, drawing, discarding, flying, using abilities (cards) and so on. Sure it gets frustrating... but compared to Omniscience, Sorcerous Spyglass is a sweet plate of tender kindess and piles of love when it comes to letting players play their decks or even their PW abilities for that matter.  lol

    Anyways, everyone else already covered the obvious, you do your best to build for such contingencies. Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. There will always be a card that hits you that is going to make you hate it with a passion for 24 hrs.

  • asm0deus
    asm0deus Posts: 73 Match Maker
    Elspeth_Tirel said:
    To clarify, I don't think Sorcerous Spyglass is broken. With slightly better luck, I'd have been fine, either by destroying it outright or by matching it. I just don't think the mechanic is any fun. There are basically three things we get to do in a battle (match gems, play cards, activate abilities), and taking one of them away just makes for a dull game. I play casual paper Magic with a friend who mostly uses a mono-green elf deck, and I know she doesn't have a very good time when I cast Iona. It's the same sort of thing. I think there are plenty of other avenues to explore that don't involve stripping out one of the core mechanics of the game.
    You seem to forget one of the important aspect of the game: DECK BUILDING. if you just want to match gems and do what ever else then magic is not for you. You build your deck to handle any and everything your opponent can do. The most important part of the game is building decks. That is why we collect the cards. To be able to use them to build something that can handle everything.
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    I don't get what the big deal is.  You can't really lose because of being unable to use abilities, hell I run decks all the time that specifically DON'T use abilities.

    If you know your opponent is running a card like that (which you do), then plan accordingly.  Its not a big deal, and its certainly not worth banning
  • IM_CARLOS
    IM_CARLOS Posts: 640 Critical Contributor
    If you heavly rely on loyalty, look at you Ob and have no real answers than this cards could be a neckbreaker. But this is probabably some better options against some archetype of decks than solemnity against cycling was.

    It was always the key of deck building: be faster or put in some control and loose speed. Same in Paper MtG, same here. 
  • Szamsziel
    Szamsziel Posts: 463 Mover and Shaker
    Spyglass at least can be destroyed by patient waiting. Immortal sun however...
  • crusher
    crusher Posts: 11 Just Dropped In
    asm0deus said:
    Elspeth_Tirel said:
    To clarify, I don't think Sorcerous Spyglass is broken. With slightly better luck, I'd have been fine, either by destroying it outright or by matching it. I just don't think the mechanic is any fun. There are basically three things we get to do in a battle (match gems, play cards, activate abilities), and taking one of them away just makes for a dull game. I play casual paper Magic with a friend who mostly uses a mono-green elf deck, and I know she doesn't have a very good time when I cast Iona. It's the same sort of thing. I think there are plenty of other avenues to explore that don't involve stripping out one of the core mechanics of the game.
    You seem to forget one of the important aspect of the game: DECK BUILDING. if you just want to match gems and do what ever else then magic is not for you. You build your deck to handle any and everything your opponent can do. The most important part of the game is building decks. That is why we collect the cards. To be able to use them to build something that can handle everything.
    Can I ask you to give an example of a deck that can handle everything? 
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    crusher said:
    asm0deus said:
    Elspeth_Tirel said:
    To clarify, I don't think Sorcerous Spyglass is broken. With slightly better luck, I'd have been fine, either by destroying it outright or by matching it. I just don't think the mechanic is any fun. There are basically three things we get to do in a battle (match gems, play cards, activate abilities), and taking one of them away just makes for a dull game. I play casual paper Magic with a friend who mostly uses a mono-green elf deck, and I know she doesn't have a very good time when I cast Iona. It's the same sort of thing. I think there are plenty of other avenues to explore that don't involve stripping out one of the core mechanics of the game.
    You seem to forget one of the important aspect of the game: DECK BUILDING. if you just want to match gems and do what ever else then magic is not for you. You build your deck to handle any and everything your opponent can do. The most important part of the game is building decks. That is why we collect the cards. To be able to use them to build something that can handle everything.
    Can I ask you to give an example of a deck that can handle everything? 

    But that is _also_ part of the point. The limit of 10 cards prevents that more or less. Instead you have to decide what "risks" you are willing to accept.

    For each deck you go, "ok, the one thing that will mess my plan up the most is..."

    In this case "...preventing my loyalty abilities, so I _absolutely_ need some way to wear down or destroy supports. Hmmm, since I now know this boss plays this card maybe Ob is not the best choice."
  • wereotter
    wereotter Posts: 2,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2018
    Sirchombli said:
    It's annoying losing to a single card. Especially a support . There's support removal in every color but black, and white , red,  and green have multiple options. Sounds like you might need to run more. The card is annoying, but it shouldn't stop you dead . I , too , would enjoy seeing more of these cards rather than less. 
    White has Forsake the Worldly and Demystify and blue has River’s Rebuke. If in black you can also stop it from happening in the first place with Disposses.
  • Froggy
    Froggy Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
    It will be fun once the top 4000 players start using Immortal Sun... A colorless support with no countdown self destruct shields... I love the card. But I don’t factbit often... When that starts happening I might look at it differently...

  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
    hmm imortal sun and the sphinx cards would be horrible wonder how long before we see deck like that out in tg. If you are going to troll do it right lol i think i may look into a deck like this

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