Angrath's third ability and tokens.

Bullvinne

Bil said:

DumasAG said:

Snappyturtle said:

I destroyed a Fabricate deck with Marionette Master at lvl 2 of his 3rd ability. It was only half way through that I realized what was going on. Those support servos shouldn't count. But then again, Treasures...a balance should be thought of for this.

Do multiple shields on a support count as well? Like, if someone played a mirror pool and then you hit it with demolish, would they take the damage 10 times?

No, it just triggers for each iteration of the support or creature. A 10 shield support is considered as a single support, and so are treasures or servos.

But you can have reinforced Treasures (any treasure you get after the 4th reinforces one of the older ones)

Aeroplane

I just see him as the anti-token PW. Staring down at 50/50 elemental on turn 2 can be disheartening. 

Snappyturtle

It will always trigger with each creature reinforcement. Did another run but in story-mode against the BFZ opponents that spawn a scion as their ability. It would do damage for each time it was reinforced. Still running a lvl 2 3rd loyalty.

DumasAG said:

Snappyturtle said:

I destroyed a Fabricate deck with Marionette Master at lvl 2 of his 3rd ability. It was only half way through that I realized what was going on. Those support servos shouldn't count. But then again, Treasures...a balance should be thought of for this.

Do multiple shields on a support count as well? Like, if someone played a mirror pool and then you hit it with demolish, would they take the damage 10 times?

Only when it was reinforced. The 10 is just the shield count. It's still only one card in play.

TheDude1

Bumping this thread as I recently came across this in a TG match.  Given all of the distinction in recent sets between creatures and reinforcements - and all of the effects associated with one or the other - can we get clarification if this damage-per-reinforcement effect is a bug, or working as intended (and incorrectly worded)?

Kinesia

I like that tokens have a "superenemy" in Angrath.

TheDude1

I'm not saying that shouldn't be the case, just asking for clarity - another case where the wording of the effect doesn't match the actual impact.

BlessedOne

I think fighting a token deck with Angrath is so gratifying.
Token creatures are ammunition. Grab a stack of 1/1 vampires with his second ability, then sit back and watch the fireworks.

I like the way he works and does not feel broken or overpowered.

TheDude1

Again, not suggesting that the ability shouldn't give damage per reinforcement, or that Angrath is broken/overpowered.  My question has nothing to do with how qualitatively powerful the effect is, only if it functions correctly.

I'm saying that in all other cases, "destroy creature" means it counts just once, regardless of how many times it's reinforced.  For example, secondary objectives of the type "kill/lose creature" only count one per creature slot.  Casting Murder on a stack of 10 thopters only counts as one creature for those objectives.  To do things based on reinforcements, a whole group of cards had very specific wording that indicate the effect is based on reinforcement count (see: Plague Wind). 

I'm just trying to get clarity one way or the other on how this effect should work - based on creature count, or based on reinforcement count.  I don't own Angrath so I don't really care other than to make things clear.

thesmallesthuman

Yes, lvl 4 is the same, only difference is it now includes spells, discarded or cast. It’s awesome, he’s always been that way, and makes perfect sense to me. It’s not “when card is destroyed,” it’s “when card hits the GY.” A reinforced non-token creature will send all copies to the GY separately - for instance, if you kill a 1x stacked darigaaz, left to his own devices he will come back in two turns, and the other copy will come back the turn after. 

Only time I’m happy to see Josu is when I’m playing Angrath. Yes that last ability is a true dope show, but so are (and should be) most other walkers’ ults. 

It all adds up. Let the sexy beast do his thang.

TheDude1

I'm not sure how the Darigaaz example works in practice.  I ran a test, and both token and non-token reinforced cards are shown as destroyed once when playing spells like Murder.   If you check the battle logs, it only shows one creature was destroyed regardless of number of reinforcements.  If you bounce a reinforced creature back to hand, only one copy goes back, and when recast it's just the one creature, not reinforced.  And like I said, the secondary objectives would only count destroying a stacked creature as one creature.

So why does Angrath's definition of "creature" function differently?  If it's meant to count reinforcements, why not say "reinforcements" like every other card that deals with reinforcement effects?

thesmallesthuman

Right...so I guess what I’m saying is there’s a difference between a creature and a card. In pq, darigaaz will always be one creature on the board no matter how many stacks. However, if you played 2 dari’s, there’s two cards out, making up one bigger creature. Denoted by the 1x in corner. Same with a stack of 20 zombies, it’s 20 stacks, but 1 creature so it’ll only count as one kill for objectives and in the battle log. However each card finds their way separately to the GY before they’re (in a token’s case) exiled. 

Honestly, you make a good point regarding bounce. I’ve wondered that myself, that one makes less sense to me.

If I’d played paper magic more recently, the discrepancies in all the rules and cards would be driving me up the wall. As it is, I’ve just been plodding along and figuring out how each interaction works in this game specifically. It’s not perfect, and there’s plenty of quirks and bugs, but Angrath was one of my first loves in this game and his stuff makes sense to me...I guess cuz I was playing a lot with him while I was still learning the game and its intricacies.

Anyone obviously feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but this is how I’ve come to understand it all.

Tombstone

Hi everyone, the current interactions with Angrath's Fiery Demise, Tokens, and Reinforcements has been confirmed to be the intended behavior. 

TheDude1

Thank you for confirming Tombstone!