I Can’t Believe I Saw.... (The Gambit PvP Edition)

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  • ZeiramMR
    ZeiramMR Posts: 1,357 Chairperson of the Boards
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    ZeroKarma said:

    But I actually saw a few Phoenix teams in the wild!!! It’s been a very long time. Remember when she and OML were everywhere?
    I've been seeing her and OML outside of this event, but I suspect that is because I only have one 5* champed.
  • JHawkInc
    JHawkInc Posts: 2,603 Chairperson of the Boards
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    aesthetocyst said:
    JHawkInc said:
    ... didn't have to sift through Gambit teams to see them.

    That's precisely the point. This event was not a choice between 1) having to skip dozens of times to find something other than a 5bit team, and then skip more, more, more to find a team sans 5bit worth points, or 2) just grinding out the event by paying the same match vs. 5bit, over and over and over.


    That's not what the topic is about, though. The question at hand is "What teams did everyone play and see when 5* Gambit wasn’t an option?" My answer is "The same teams I see when Gambit is around (minus the teams with Gambit, obviously.)"

    The original post expressed excitement at seeing Phoenix. I don't share that, because I see Phoenix anyways in PVP. Certainly not with the frequency of Gambit, but that's not what the topic is about. The original post was about seeing teams and characters show up that don't exist in the 5* Gambit meta, and regardless of the frequencies, it is not my experience that certain things just don't exist because of Gambit. I apologize that my personal experience does not match public perception. There is nothing I can do about that. Point values of teams and how often you have to skip to find good matches and who you skip and who you pick to fight all have no bearing on the fact that I saw the same characters in 3* Gambit's PVP as I have in every other event this season.

    OJSP said:
    JHawkInc said:
    I wasn't being dismissive of someone else's experience, I was defending mine. 
    Well, your first statement that I quoted sounded dismissive. Zerokarma was trying to explain it without mentioning the levels of your characters. I don’t think he was trying to say you were ignorant about it. Anyway, I’ve said what I wanted to say, which was about the levels of the characters and MMR.

    If anyone was playing in s2 last event, they would find me using Banner when climbing between 800-900.
    The level thing is definitely worth mentioning (I meant to comment on it in my last post, apparently edited that bit out, oops). Over 100 levels of "5* Champ PVP", there's plenty of space to have multiple different "mini-metas" based on what players have what characters. Wouldn't be surprised if you get similar divisions based on how many points are in a slice (are the highest people barely over 1k or are they all 4k plus?) or your personal score (going up to 575 or 900 or 1200 or pushing higher for the season score).

    Even so, that's a mark in my favor, providing a reason why my experience might be different, which is the opposite of assuming I needed an explanation of the topic at hand. I agree that my initial comment was terse and of a negative tone, but it wasn't because I was being dismissive, it was because I don't take kindly to being patronized. (and these forums can be particularly bad about that sometimes, which I'm probably not immune to either)
  • CharlieCroker
    CharlieCroker Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
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    I'd be interested to know what shard you play in and to what score.

    I've played in S1, S2 & S3 recently and apart from scores in S2 generally being much lower, my experience has been the same everywhere.  Up to around 400-600 I can find non Gambit queues, although rarely for more than 50 pts.  After that the only chance of my finding a non-Gambit team is someone hopping (clearing grills) with Panthos.  Apart from that it's wall to wall of Gambolt, Thorbit and Thanbit. 

    For disclosure, my average t3 is around 465 and I always play to 900 and more often than not 1200+.
  • bigsmooth
    bigsmooth Posts: 375 Mover and Shaker
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    Overall, there was certainly more variety than the typical PVP; I only played to 900, but I on my climb think I saw every 5* except Steve, Ock, Ghost Rider, and Banner. I definitely saw more 4* than I normally would, as well. I saw a bit more Thanos than usual, since lower level 3* Gambits are good Court Death fodder. 

    Once I got above 600 or so most teams were comprised of some combination of Thor, Bolt, Thanos, and Daredevil, as you would expect.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,927 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2018
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    Uthgarprime said:
    Lol all I saw was DD and Thor, they need to be nerfed now cause they are OP woithout a Gambit counter. See how this works. When Gambit gets nerfed everyone will complain about someone else.
    Chrono_Tata said:
    Yeah, 80% of the teams I fought were Thor. He's nowhere near as annoying to fight as Gambit though.

    I was also using Thor so I can't complain. :p
    Tony Foot said:
    Thor fest for me, as someone without a Thor and without gambit to consistently take him down with a full red I struggled and burnt through health packs. I hit 575 and quit.
    rixmith said:
    I started with Thor/Grocket then went Thor/DD the rest of the way. Loved not needing to use health packs after every fight. Loved using someone other than Gambit without becoming a punching bag for everyone else. 

    Once I got past about 600 points I mostly saw other Thor/DD teams, which gave a good indicator of where the meta would go if Gambit gets nerfed too hard someday.

    Doc L said:
    I thoroughly enjoyed the event, as a non-5* Gambit user (mine is only 11/13, sad). I used 5* Daredevil (462) and 5* Thor (450) (yeah, I'm one of those people). Whilst the variety of team may not have changed (i.e. the sheer number of Thor/Daredevil teams in general replaced the Gambit equivalents), the fact that I can beat another Thor/Daredevil team without breaking my health packs every match made it more fun.

    I said this in another thread, but I expect that once Gambit plus whatever friend is nerfed, it's just going to get replaced with Thor plus whatever friend (likely DD) next.  Just like Gambit now, if you don't have him, you play your other two best characters  While initially, you'll have variety, there will always be a best character/fastest team/etc.  Once people figure it out (sounds like it took half of an event) then the meta will shift there and the prevalence will only grow with each event.

  • Doc L
    Doc L Posts: 279 Mover and Shaker
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    I thoroughly enjoyed the event, as a non-5* Gambit user (mine is only 11/13, sad). I used 5* Daredevil (462) and 5* Thor (450) (yeah, I'm one of those people). Whilst the variety of team may not have changed (i.e. the sheer number of Thor/Daredevil teams in general replaced the Gambit equivalents), the fact that I can beat another Thor/Daredevil team without breaking my health packs every match made it more fun. I did use Thanos, Spiderman (Peter Parker) and America Chavez as well in that mix, upto 1200. 

    The thing about this meta is it would be beatable, even if you don't have the best thing going. With Panthos, for example, I was running Hawkeye/Thanos (again, my 4-1-5 Panther is not quite useable), and although taking hits, I was able to score well, and never felt completely hindered by my lack of a champion level Panther. 

    To me, that's the takeaway from this event. Not necessarily that variation increased, but more that variation wasn't a handicap, like it is when 5* Gambit is in play (my experience only).
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,927 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Doc L said:
    I thoroughly enjoyed the event, as a non-5* Gambit user (mine is only 11/13, sad). I used 5* Daredevil (462) and 5* Thor (450) (yeah, I'm one of those people). Whilst the variety of team may not have changed (i.e. the sheer number of Thor/Daredevil teams in general replaced the Gambit equivalents), the fact that I can beat another Thor/Daredevil team without breaking my health packs every match made it more fun. I did use Thanos, Spiderman (Peter Parker) and America Chavez as well in that mix, upto 1200. 

    The thing about this meta is it would be beatable, even if you don't have the best thing going. With Panthos, for example, I was running Hawkeye/Thanos (again, my 4-1-5 Panther is not quite useable), and although taking hits, I was able to score well, and never felt completely hindered by my lack of a champion level Panther. 

    To me, that's the takeaway from this event. Not necessarily that variation increased, but more that variation wasn't a handicap, like it is when 5* Gambit is in play (my experience only).
    Doc... [Chris Jericho] you just made the list!! [/Chris Jericho]... of people who saw the meta shift from Gambit to Thor.

    I absolutely agree that it's easier to deal with but disagree with the the fact that more variety would come with a Gambit nerf which is the point I was making in the other thread.  People will still use their two best which has been the case sense the dawn of MPQ lol.

    Grocket is the equivalent in 4* land.  You can beat him... but it'll cost you some packs.  Good thing we have 4* boosts!
  • mohio
    mohio Posts: 1,690 Chairperson of the Boards
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    The problem with the 5* "meta" though, is that because of the scarcity in supply, it's often determined more by who players have available than who is actually the best duo/trio. Sure there are handfuls of players that have all or most all of the 5* champed and available for use. But many people have hoarded and pulled and skipped some characters while focusing on getting others fatter. Alternatively, I think there has been a significant increase in the 5* player pool around the time that Gambit has been in latest tokens, and those players are likely to be limited to some subset of PP, DD, Gambit, and Thor. Whether Thor/DD is actually the next best team is beside the point if those are the only 5s people have to chose from. If somehow Widow or Super Steve become part of the best duo you're not likely to just see them everywhere the way you see Gambit now, cause far fewer people have them covered in the first place. 

    Not to belabor the point too much, but we saw this with OML/Phx for the first entire year+ of the 5* game. Even when there were better duos out there, they were in much shorter supply so 5* players continued to use trusty old OML/PHX despite not being "the best" team available. 
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,757 Chairperson of the Boards
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    mohio said:
    The problem with the 5* "meta" though, is that because of the scarcity in supply, it's often determined more by who players have available than who is actually the best duo/trio. Sure there are handfuls of players that have all or most all of the 5* champed and available for use. But many people have hoarded and pulled and skipped some characters while focusing on getting others fatter. Alternatively, I think there has been a significant increase in the 5* player pool around the time that Gambit has been in latest tokens, and those players are likely to be limited to some subset of PP, DD, Gambit, and Thor. Whether Thor/DD is actually the next best team is beside the point if those are the only 5s people have to chose from. If somehow Widow or Super Steve become part of the best duo you're not likely to just see them everywhere the way you see Gambit now, cause far fewer people have them covered in the first place. 

    Not to belabor the point too much, but we saw this with OML/Phx for the first entire year+ of the 5* game. Even when there were better duos out there, they were in much shorter supply so 5* players continued to use trusty old OML/PHX despite not being "the best" team available. 
    Very interesting point with when people’s pulled their tokens and what they were able to cover as it was something I did not honk about myself.  I will add that I do feel more people used DD and Thor to save on health packs and speed more so than using other 5*. By bringing less than 1/2 health DD and less than 1/2 health Thor you just match DD colors and you can chew through enemyies fairly fast.  Also since DD is a true heal you can save a lot on Health packs and his strike tiles are really good.  This is why I think DD, Thor was used more than Panthos teams or OML Phoenix teams.  Having 14 5* championed health packs was the main reason I went with DD, Thor over other teams for a major portion of my climb.  I did run GR as well as tried out some other combos for fun as well.
  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,535 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I played CoulHawk initially, then switched to DD/Thor to minimize retaliations.  It was definitely more fun than I usually have in PVP.  I wish I had thought of IF/DD - that sounds like fun, I'll have to try it in PVE.

    Let's not have the Gambit debate on this thread - revive the old one for that, but I'm with everyone else that says that he breaks the game.

  • LifeofAgony
    LifeofAgony Posts: 690 Critical Contributor
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    Bring on 5Thor as a meta, or DD, or whomever.  The issues with 5 gambit has never been that he’s the meta.  The problem is he’s game breaking bad for the game and without using gambit to counter him, it’s an unenviable place to be.  Thor can be meta and has an absolute laundry list of teams that can compete with and beat it.  This is not the case with stupidly borked Gambit.
  • Jarvind
    Jarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I saw a lot of Thor-plus-whoever, followed closely by Hawkeye/Coulson. But yeah, it was nice to see some OMLs, Goblins and Phoenixes poking their heads out for a change.
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    edited April 2018
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    PvP? With 5*s it is a suicide... you will die due to depression and stress :D 
    Seriously, today i LOST PvP (i had like 200 points before this match) against maxed Thanos... i had two maxed 5*s (OML and Phoenix) and he killed me with his green (20k team damage) + passive (almost 20k team damage).
    5*s should not be alowed in PvP - they are either useless or overpowered. Even individually it is very difficult to make them both ballanced and unique. And for synergies with other 5*s it is even worse.

    Anyway, i am meeting only Thanos, Gambit, Daredevil and Thor. Sometimes also Surfer, OML, Phoenix or Goblin (weird, i dont remember seeing single Bruce Banner or Black Spider Man) but these i can defend. 

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