Booster Crafting - Gears Ground

ifsandbuts

As the Kaladesh block has now rotated out of standard, I was VERY UNHAPPY to see that the cards from the set have been lumped into the LEGACY category for booster crafting.

This makes me so angry because now, instead of having a 1 in 30 chance of pulling Deploy the Gatewatch (or something else I have been hunting and chipping away at,) I have a 1 in 85 chance!

One of the main changes with Oktagon was that we were going to be able to collect the cards! Now I have 50 more tinykitty Yahenni, Undying Partisans to potentially grind through before I get what I want.

Please, do us a solid and separate the sets in the booster crafting section and indicate the ones that are "Legacy" with a blue ribbon or something. That way we can actually hunt cards a LITTLE more efficiently.

I am happy to see all the good work Oktagon has been doing and I am very grateful. Please consider this feedback. Not everyone has most of the cards from these legacy sets.

Thanks for listening.

wereotter

Yahenni was a more solid card than people gave credit to, but I'll agree. I don't love that all legacy cards are lumped together into one crafting pool. Since I didn't really play while Zendikar was a thing, I don't like that I can't just craft the one rare I never pulled from Eldritch Moon without trying to get through all the junk from all the other sets. It would be really nice if it was possible to specify a set to craft from within legacy.

bk1234

I agree with this, I wish I could craft legacy by set. 

I also think that the outgoing sets (AKH and HOU) should be priced between legacy and the most recent since we won't be able to use them as long. 

Pavorus

I feel your pain. I was down to 4 cards in legacy 3 of which I wanted (Olivia, drowner, and nissa's renewal). Now I have 19 cards to craft through. I even crafted 4 mythics the day it changed due to the new set release. 

It would be nice to craft from blocks rather than all of legacy.

Mburn7

As much as I agree that lumped legacy isn't ideal, I really don't think you should be complaining about this.

Its not like this is an unexpected development.  We were not given any reason to think that Kaladesh would remain independently craftable when it rotated out.  That's the price you pay for discounted crafting.  Its harder to target things.

Brakkis

Mburn7 said:

That's the price you pay for discounted crafting.  Its harder to target things.

Why, pray-tell, must there be a "price"? Explain the reasoning behind a conditional.

Firinmahlazer

None of this was hidden or misrepresented. This was to be expected when KLD went to legacy. 

Edit*
You're not supposed to have every card. You're not supposed to be able to pick and choose your mythics. If legacy mythics are just going to be TG toys anyway then you should seriously consider if it's really worthwhile spending orbs on them.

ifsandbuts

Mburn7 said:

That's the price you pay for discounted crafting.  Its harder to target things.

So what I am hearing you say is that the devs should just make this game more frustrating and less fun to play.

How quickly we forget what happened to d3...

Booster crafting was created as a steam release valve (much too late, some would say) only after d3 alienated a large portion of their player base by, you guessed it, <u>making the game more frustrating and less fun to play.</u>

The horrible drop rates, coupled with austerity measures, caused a lot of players to up and leave. Many of us held on, waiting as d3 promised crafting implementation but pushing it back, again and again.

Oktagon took over and released it. It was surprisingly balanced, even aggressive, in the way that it costed standard crafting. Only the most skilled, persistent, or lucky are able to collect a full standard set relatively quickly.

I am an old person who just plays this game for fun. I am not asking for easy/quick access to competitive standard cards.

All I am asking for is to make the thrill of the hunt for new LEGACY rares and mythics fun.

So I can sometimes add something neat to one of Training Grounds decks.

So I can play with some old cards that I have played against and thought looked badass.

So the game can do what it is supposed to do for casual players: be fun and not frustrating

Kinesia

Making Standard fun and less frustrating will always be more important than making legacy less frustrating.
Most casual players are hunting to be able to make event decks, not training grounds ones.

This will be true for _most_ casual players, but I totally understand not all.


Honestly I think it would be better to rethink how to get legacy cards outside of booster crafting.
I FAR preferred it when the "free boosters" were a 3 pack of legacy.

Rewards for standard events should be standard.

Rewards for legacy events... For the feel of them I want them to have the booster from their proper set, but practically that is biased because events aren't run the same amounts and some don't even have the right rewards or aren't available at all.
So my backup idea is... Make a new "collected booster" which is _just_ legacy cards, not standard at all and use that as the reward for most legacy events.

Mburn7

Brakkis said:

Mburn7 said:

That's the price you pay for discounted crafting.  Its harder to target things.

Why, pray-tell, must there be a "price"? Explain the reasoning behind a conditional.

ifsandbuts said:

Mburn7 said:

That's the price you pay for discounted crafting.  Its harder to target things.

So what I am hearing you say is that the devs should just make this game more frustrating and less fun to play.

How quickly we forget what happened to d3...

Look, I love free stuff as much as the next guy.  I would love nothing more than to have every card in the game and enough currency to get every new card as it comes out.

I also understand that this is horrible for the game.  The thrill of the chase (otherwise known as The Grind, after a while) is the entire purpose of playing.  The randomness of what you get is the entire point.  Its the reason Hibernium resisted making crafting for so long. And the reason they were so disliked was because they stopped caring.  Buggy releases, stupidly overpowered cards, poorly designed events, lack of communication, and changes to the few things we did like to make them buggy and bad (see: current pack structure vs the old one)

I hate when people say we need more rewards or guaranteed rares/mythics/new cards.  I started playing this game when you could get 60 crystals a week (not including story mode), and the good card pack cost 600.  Compared to that the 300 crystals I get every week or two feels like cheating as is.

Look, the current system makes it very difficult to get the cards you want, but thats what keeps you coming back to try again.  Otherwise you'd craft the few cards you want and then just stop.

Sorry for the rant (and the criticism), but its the truth.

HypnoticSpecter

Given how support for Legacy events has decreased, I don't see much harm in making those sets easier to collect. Are we really worried about Emrakul's Corruption, Trials, and the few other Legacy events we're still given now and then getting even more unbalanced? It would seem to have a marginal effect on the game as a whole, while still making dedicated, longterm players happy.

Firinmahlazer

HypnoticSpecter said:

Given how support for Legacy events has decreased, I don't see much harm in making those sets easier to collect. Are we really worried about Emrakul's Corruption, Trials, and the few other Legacy events we're still given now and then getting even more unbalanced? It would seem to have a marginal effect on the game as a whole, while still making dedicated, longterm players happy.

Because it's never enough for some people. We're literally getting free cards and it's being asked that they be made easier to obtain? What's the harm in being thankful for what we have?

bk1234

Firinmahlazer said:

HypnoticSpecter said:

Given how support for Legacy events has decreased, I don't see much harm in making those sets easier to collect. Are we really worried about Emrakul's Corruption, Trials, and the few other Legacy events we're still given now and then getting even more unbalanced? It would seem to have a marginal effect on the game as a whole, while still making dedicated, longterm players happy.

Because it's never enough for some people. We're literally getting free cards and it's being asked that they be made easier to obtain? What's the harm in being thankful for what we have?

I think it's more a matter of fun for legacy cards -- If I want to really explore the energy mechanic, I need Kaladesh cards, why should someone have to craft 80 cards they aren't interested in to get to 3 -- going set specific doesn't offer much of a competitive advantage, it does however increase engagement, as it allows people to collect from sets that interest them. 

In paper you can buy boosters from old sets (if you know where to look). 

ifsandbuts

bken1234 said:

I think it's more a matter of fun for legacy cards [...] going set specific doesn't offer much of a competitive advantage, it does however increase engagement, as it allows people to collect from sets that interest them. 

This. All day this.

FindingHeart8

I'm conflicted on this.  While I was also saddened to see my pool of uncollected legacy mythics expand (from 48 to 70-something)...

...which probably means I won't be getting Olivia or Emrakul anytime soon (I was lucky enough to pack Deploy of the Gatewatch 3 times before booster crafting was a thing, yaaay extra runes)...

I am also glad to have a cheaper opportunity to access cards like Boomship, and thankful every legacy deck I face won't be the same overpowered combos over and over again.  While this allows you to -eventually- get all the cards, if you play for a couple decades (that party is kinda cruddy); it is still an improvement from the times that most of us joined pre-booster crafting, where the odds of getting every card was near impossible.

Firinmahlazer

bken1234 said:

Firinmahlazer said:

HypnoticSpecter said:

Given how support for Legacy events has decreased, I don't see much harm in making those sets easier to collect. Are we really worried about Emrakul's Corruption, Trials, and the few other Legacy events we're still given now and then getting even more unbalanced? It would seem to have a marginal effect on the game as a whole, while still making dedicated, longterm players happy.

Because it's never enough for some people. We're literally getting free cards and it's being asked that they be made easier to obtain? What's the harm in being thankful for what we have?

I think it's more a matter of fun for legacy cards -- If I want to really explore the energy mechanic, I need Kaladesh cards, why should someone have to craft 80 cards they aren't interested in to get to 3 -- going set specific doesn't offer much of a competitive advantage, it does however increase engagement, as it allows people to collect from sets that interest them. 

In paper you can buy boosters from old sets (if you know where to look). 

Well it would seem to me that you had 3 months to get all the KLD cards you could afford. I don't think we should be setting the precedent of separating out sets because all of a sudden people saw their legacy numbers go up. Trust me I wanted some KLD and a plethora of other legacy cards too and I now have 91 cards in my mythic pool but I made the decision to focus on Origins and AKH. And if we're going to compare it to paper what would be the point of buying unplayable cards (assuming you're not a casual player)?

madwren

I remember expressing disappointment when we could no longer break it out by set. What's odd is that they seem to be missing the proverbial forest for the trees.

The ability to actually acquire any card you want--as long as you're willing to pay the price--enhances people's willingness to keep playing, experimenting, and creating decks. If people weren't able to acquire virtually any card they wanted, the competitive scene would have died a long time ago.

Feeling like you're stuck in the mud or unable to compete because you perceive resources are being denied to you is discouraging. Having a great idea you're unable to test or implement? Discouraging. Seeing the cool new card your best friend got and knowing you have only a 1/1000 chance of getting it? Discouraging. Not being able to share deck ideas for events because half your team lacks the cards to put decks together? Discouraging.

Discouragement doesn't increase engagement or participation. It does the exact opposite.

DBJones

I would like them to split up legacy. All the protests seem to be about people not having things to chase, but the majority of the players in this game still couldn't get every legacy card they wanted if they could aim by set, but they'd have a much better shot at getting a few of them. Also, new sets coming in will always add more things to chase, the only people who will ever even temporarily run out of things to chase are the top players. Those players taking an occasional break would boost any platinum players who can't quite reach a reward tier. Plus, there's cards worth chasing in all three legacy sets anyways.

wereotter

I would just point out, since some are saying the reduced cost for crafting legacy cards is the reason you can't select a set, that Origins cards were craftable at legacy costs, and not only are those cards always standard legal, which in theory should make then cost more than it would cost to craft Amonkhet cards right now, but you were able to target that set specifically as opposed to just having Origins cards sprinkled throughout all the other standard legal sets. Or just a section of all Amonkhet, Origins, and Ixalan cards marked as "standard" and no ability to target what set you're looking for.

So the argument of cost kind of falls flat when you consider that set. Also as was stated, it's not so much about ease as it is about getting cards that work together. If I want to try to make a deck that deals with ingest, I don't want to have to craft a bunch of madness cards for a chance at playing that mechanic. For me, it's just made the "Legacy" section of crafting a dead zone with options I never select because why would I? The randomness is too great.

Bil

    If I'm not confused origins has been made more accessible to allow most players to build a base collection of cards precisely because it wasn't meant to leave standard.

DaddyO

I see no harm in allowing legacy to be targeted by block. It would be a nice addition without much downside. We should ask nicely because in reality crafting has been very well executed.

I chose to complete Origins and now spend my orbs on legacy and I get on average two meh and one OMG per month. Last week I got Deploy and it was a curb stomping good time - even if it came late to the party.