Some congratulations are in order!

Gotcha617

bken1234 said:

Gotcha617 said:

Machine said:

Fully agree with OP.

@Thuran: Indeed it isn't, except for one thing. You need 20 people with the same scoring power. If you only have a few in a non top 10 coalition, you are automatically shut out from this reward. Utterly bad design.

In fairness a lot of the players in a top ten started in a coalition just as you describe. Myself included. What I did was put a request on the forum and work my way up. Not extremely tough. Not saying the award structures are completely fair. However if anyone doesn’t want to put in the work to move up then it’s more on them oppose to a bad award structure. If you want something work for it...if you don’t to be Jell-o

Actually, @Machine is one of the top 5 scorers out of the 340 players in ThePower9. He puts in the work week after week and leads a top 25 coalition so well there is hardly any turnover. As a leader, he probably puts more work in than 95% of top 10 players.

It’s not cool to make assumptions about people. 

Pretty sure that was just a generally statement. Great assumption by you... A wise old lady once told me it’s not cool to assume

FindingHeart8

Gotcha617 said:

bken1234 said:

Gotcha617 said:

Machine said:

Fully agree with OP.

@Thuran: Indeed it isn't, except for one thing. You need 20 people with the same scoring power. If you only have a few in a non top 10 coalition, you are automatically shut out from this reward. Utterly bad design.

In fairness a lot of the players in a top ten started in a coalition just as you describe. Myself included. What I did was put a request on the forum and work my way up. Not extremely tough. Not saying the award structures are completely fair. However if anyone doesn’t want to put in the work to move up then it’s more on them oppose to a bad award structure. If you want something work for it...if you don’t to be Jell-o

Actually, @Machine is one of the top 5 scorers out of the 340 players in ThePower9. He puts in the work week after week and leads a top 25 coalition so well there is hardly any turnover. As a leader, he probably puts more work in than 95% of top 10 players.

It’s not cool to make assumptions about people. 

Pretty sure that was just a generally statement. Great assumption by you... A wise old lady once told me it’s not cool to assume

how dare you reference me as old.  I'm gorgeous!!!

Phillmoore

This makes me laugh out loud.  I agree that the top 10 teams will win this time and time again. If reward is the same next week will they block other teams from also getting reward by repeating the same challange?  These top team people tho are now talking about the work they put in are mostly the same j hear also complaining that the events are too long or take too much time.  So the desire to win top awards often comes at the cost of having to do too much work!  Nuff said 

Kinesia

FindingHeart8 said:

Gotcha617 said:

bken1234 said:

Gotcha617 said:

Machine said:

Fully agree with OP.

@Thuran: Indeed it isn't, except for one thing. You need 20 people with the same scoring power. If you only have a few in a non top 10 coalition, you are automatically shut out from this reward. Utterly bad design.

In fairness a lot of the players in a top ten started in a coalition just as you describe. Myself included. What I did was put a request on the forum and work my way up. Not extremely tough. Not saying the award structures are completely fair. However if anyone doesn’t want to put in the work to move up then it’s more on them oppose to a bad award structure. If you want something work for it...if you don’t to be Jell-o

Actually, @Machine is one of the top 5 scorers out of the 340 players in ThePower9. He puts in the work week after week and leads a top 25 coalition so well there is hardly any turnover. As a leader, he probably puts more work in than 95% of top 10 players.

It’s not cool to make assumptions about people. 

Pretty sure that was just a generally statement. Great assumption by you... A wise old lady once told me it’s not cool to assume

how dare you reference me as old.  I'm gorgeous!!!

How dare you be agist and imply old people can't be gorgeous!

FindingHeart8

Kinesia said:

FindingHeart8 said:

Gotcha617 said:

bken1234 said:

Gotcha617 said:

Machine said:

Fully agree with OP.

@Thuran: Indeed it isn't, except for one thing. You need 20 people with the same scoring power. If you only have a few in a non top 10 coalition, you are automatically shut out from this reward. Utterly bad design.

In fairness a lot of the players in a top ten started in a coalition just as you describe. Myself included. What I did was put a request on the forum and work my way up. Not extremely tough. Not saying the award structures are completely fair. However if anyone doesn’t want to put in the work to move up then it’s more on them oppose to a bad award structure. If you want something work for it...if you don’t to be Jell-o

Actually, @Machine is one of the top 5 scorers out of the 340 players in ThePower9. He puts in the work week after week and leads a top 25 coalition so well there is hardly any turnover. As a leader, he probably puts more work in than 95% of top 10 players.

It’s not cool to make assumptions about people. 

Pretty sure that was just a generally statement. Great assumption by you... A wise old lady once told me it’s not cool to assume

how dare you reference me as old.  I'm gorgeous!!!

How dare you be agist and imply old people can't be gorgeous!

ooooooo I see what you did there.  Clever clever

Sirchombli

I'm in one of the above coalitions. I didn't start in one of them. In fact , I was pretty terrible for the first 6 or 8 months I played. While I understand that you didn't "mean to" shame the top coalitions, that's exactly what you're doing. Am I supposed to feel bad that I put in work and was able to find a group of people that also put in work? Or am I supposed to feel sorry for you that you don't have a coalition that puts in work? There are plenty of ways to do get into top 10. There are recruitment threads on this very site. Good job furthering the rift . Top notch. 

Gunmix25

Sirchombli said:

I'm in one of the above coalitions. I didn't start in one of them. In fact , I was pretty terrible for the first 6 or 8 months I played. While I understand that you didn't "mean to" shame the top coalitions, that's exactly what you're doing. Am I supposed to feel bad that I put in work and was able to find a group of people that also put in work? Or am I supposed to feel sorry for you that you don't have a coalition that puts in work? There are plenty of ways to do get into top 10. There are recruitment threads on this very site. Good job furthering the rift . Top notch. 

I did nothing of the sort. If you're unable to differentiate the fact that I pointed out a distinct problem that the prize for the top coalitions of an event are already decided before an event begins to the devs from directly insulting coalitions (of which I clearly stated i wasn't and that they they worked hard for their spot,  fair and square and  it's to be commended), that's on you, not me..  Nice try though in trying to flip the issue.

The issue lies with the devs decision to provide an established prize and nothing to do with shaming coalitions.  These top coalitions are merely the receievers of a bad executive decision,  nothing more. I do wish them the best and hope they enjoy the prize.  It looks fun.  

Now.... As for my coalition,  the guys I play with are top notch, committed and work hard to meet the goals.  Who the tiny kitty are you to insult mine when I sincerely congratulated those in the top spot.  They earned it and that is a very cool thing. While we cannot score  as well as we would like to try nor can commit to the hours that the top coalitions require. My coalition and many like mine are no less important or less at working hard trying to score as best as we can. How elitist of you.  So to quote you perfectly..."good job furthering the rift, top notch" .. it suits you nicely.  

khurram

Well, it's a good thing that the Immortal sun isn't an if-i-dont-get-it-i-will-lose-all-joy-for-the-game-and-my-decks-will-suck-and-i-will-lose-any-game-i-try-to-play-without-it kind of card.

But wait.. NO card in the game is. 
I look at powerful cards that I definitely want to get. But there is an element of chance. I don't get all of them. It happens. I'll get them later maybe and even if I don't there are always going to be new cards released to keep me interested and engaged. People are okay with other people getting cards purely on chance but throw a fit at the possibility of other people winning something in the game for the work that they put in. Not being able to win one card does not make you a martyr or something. And I don't get this increasing trend of trying to shame people who are more competitive than yourselves.

Regarding the OP where a screenshot of all time scores has been posted, I think it's misleading. All time scores have nothing to do where that coalition will be placed on the leaderboards for a current event. A coalition is as good as the people currently in it. All it takes is 1 or 2 people not being able to do all of their games and  their team will lose out regardless of them being even no. 1 on the all time leaderboards. Similarly if a coalition which is usually in the 1000th spot can get people who play all their games and not generally lose, they will take a top spot.

By posting a screenshot like that and saying that the rewards are predecided you may as well be complaining that it's precided that the coalitions where all the people are willing to put the most work will get the reward.
What a horrible system indeed.

Coalitions are the social aspect of this game. Which means you have to find people and make a team. If you want the top rewards you better find some people who are as competitive as you are. But if you are not willing to put that kind of work you shouldn't complain about losing out on stuff. 


 Phillmoore said:

This makes me laugh out loud.  I agree that the top 10 teams will win this time and time again. If reward is the same next week will they block other teams from also getting reward by repeating the same challange?  These top team people tho are now talking about the work they put in are mostly the same j hear also complaining that the events are too long or take too much time.  So the desire to win top awards often comes at the cost of having to do too much work!  Nuff said 

Thats like laughing at the people who play MTGPQ for talking about the things they'd like improved in MTGPQ. What do you expect? Feedback from the candy crush community?

Nuff said indeed. Winning top rewards does come at the cost of having to do much work. And the energies of the people who don't want to or dont feel like doing that much work are apparently better spent criticizing those who do.

Bil

  The fact the card appears as a weekly reward for top 10 coalitions causes obviously much frustration because you constantly have the card in front of your nose and it "looks like" you could get it but you can't (without leaving your coalition at least).
     Part of the frustration might also come from the fact that top 10 coalitions already benefit of very nice RIX booster rewards in addition to the regular currencies bonuses while the rewards are very poor for the rest of the coalitions (you can't even get a booster if you're not in the top 50).
   
   The sad thing about all this immortal sun debate is that it probably wouldn't have bothered anyone if it was given as a one-time reward for top 10 coalitions to reward them for their overall effort. 
    It would have made much more sense and i think most excluded players would have seen it as a cool and legitimate reward.

Brakkis

Gunmix25 said:

To these guys/gals

A truly sincere congratulations on winning the Immortal Sun mythic card.

Seriously, I mean it.

**this is not sarcasm directed at these coalitions. It is of no fault of any of these players for their hard work at maintaining their top spot but to point out the poor design of an event that already pre-selected the winners to receive a prize that alienates the hard work of thousands who are not in a position to even compete.***

Premature congratulations were inaccurate.



D3NIED took 9th. 

Gunmix25

Brakkis said:

Gunmix25 said:

To these guys/gals

A truly sincere congratulations on winning the Immortal Sun mythic card.

Seriously, I mean it.

**this is not sarcasm directed at these coalitions. It is of no fault of any of these players for their hard work at maintaining their top spot but to point out the poor design of an event that already pre-selected the winners to receive a prize that alienates the hard work of thousands who are not in a position to even compete.***

Premature congratulations were inaccurate.



D3NIED took 9th. 

 Haha! Nice! Congrats to you and your team mates! 

span_argoman

I don't see a big issue with giving an exclusive Mythic to the top 10 coalitions of each BoFT event. I actually think it is a nice incentive for people to strive to reach top 10. As Khurram said, it's not an if-i-dont-get-it-i-will-lose-all-joy-for-the-game-and-my-decks-will-suck-and-i-will-lose-any-game-i-try-to-play-without-it kind of card so I don't see it unbalancing the meta or whatnot.

I believe what people are fearful of is that the game will return to rewarding guaranteed Mythics from the general pool to the top coalitions for coalition events which in the past created a great imbalance between the top coalitions and the rest of the playerbase. I'm also afraid of that but I think that fear shouldn't preclude the game from ever dishing out a nice reward or two to the top-performing players.

Perhaps, this is a point where official word on the developer's intentions would help clear the air. @Brigby

One exclusive Mythic per set to the top 10 sounds like a reasonable and fair incentive to me. And as Brakkis has shown, there will be still be movement among the top 10 for each event. I think it is not too late to raise our concerns later on if the game does move back into the territory of guaranteed Mythics from the general pool to the top coalitions.

If anyone has any concerns beyond what I stated above, I would love to hear them.

Personally, I think the scaling to a RIX PP/SP for the top 2/10 coalitions and then a RIX 5-card pack for only the top 50 coalitions instead of the top 100 like before poses a greater problem to game equality than the Immortal Sun.

bk1234

span_argoman said:

Personally, I think the scaling to a RIX PP/SP for the top 2/10 coalitions and then a RIX 5-card pack for only the top 50 coalitions instead of the top 100 like before poses a greater problem to game equality than the Immortal Sun.

This is an important and true point. The rewards were good as they were -- now it's a rich get richer scenario. 

Firinmahlazer

I don't think OP or anyone else for that matter is angry at or is scolding top players or top coalitions for being on top. You play hard and secure your spot, good for you. You deserve all the rewards that come with it. However, I don't think those rewards should include a mythic. I think the whole post was a slight at the devs more than anything for choosing to walk back down that path. I agree with @span_argoman and think a one time event per set wouldn't be all that bad given the card will be available to the general public in the future. I definitely wouldn't like it to be a recurring theme every week.

Kinesia

Given the nature of the event I'd really like to see the immortal sun be to 1000 point progression reward.

People can stay in their coalition but work towards it _over time_, they can practise and refine their decks and strategies and they have a reason to keep come back.

Personal progression needs more long term motivation things like this whereas I don't feel like the coalitions need it. Individuals should be able to stay in teams with their friends but _still_ be able to fight towards accomplishments like this.

People in bronze and silver with terrible collections were still able to beat Bolas with PRACTISE and repetition and it felt SOOOO good (regardless of level) to beat him.

Having The Immortal Sun as the progression reward at 1000 would enable everyone to work towards those kinds of feelings in a very real way. (And increasing everyone's personal progression helps their coalition anyone) 

The mental feelings for "anyone can earn this with a lot of time and effort' is very different to how it currently is. The _reality_ isn't hugely different but the feelings are.

Gabrosin

It's definitely possible, even as a new player, to get into a competitive coalition.  I started playing just a few months ago, but was fortunate enough to find the group behind D3NIED.  I started participating regularly in group chat, I worked on learning the game, and I started scoring well enough to earn my way into the A-team... and then we worked hard as a team to (barely) break into the top 10 for this event and walk away with the prize.  And without tossing gobs of cash towards the developers to get an edge.  So for those out there who are looking up at the top of the coalition leaderboard enviously... reach out to these groups and start trying to work your way up, or form your own and keep trying to improve your team.

That said, I think the big problem with the structure isn't that the top ten coalitions earned an exclusive mythic... it's that the next time this event gets run, the same people will still be competing for the top prize (for the cards/crystals).  So instead of 2000 new Immortal Suns being handed out, it might be only a few hundred and a whole lot of orbs.  That's not healthy.

What I suggest is to create random brackets for coalitions the same way the game does for individual players in PVP events.  Throw 50 or 100 random participating coalitions together and give The Immortal Sun to the top 2 or 10 in each of them.  Not only would it let a lot more people enjoy the experience of winning the card, but it will give every coalition a better chance to compete.  You're not going to be trying to chase down GoblinPile and the other top teams every single event.

Mainloop25

For the first time in a long time  my coalition didn't place top ten in a coalition event. Nothing's a given  in the competition space. If you can get a solid group of 20 players together, the prize is up for grabs. 

khurram

Mainloop25 said:

For the first time in a long time  my coalition didn't place top ten in a coalition event. Nothing's a given  in the competition space. If you can get a solid group of 20 players together, the prize is up for grabs. 

Exactly. It all depends on the 20 people currently in a coalition regardless of that coalition's standing on the all time leadrboards.

Rhasget

How much time besides the actual playing time do you spend on the game in the top coalitions?

I'm in a semi-casual one, playing everything, every day but mostly with the same decks. So my time spent is pretty much the time it takes to finish my matches. Some deck building but not much when I find my comfortable selection where I can place top with the right luck or, as most times, somewhere between spot 25-100.

And then some small chat in out discord when something new comes up but not any long discussions.

madwren

Rhasget said:

How much time besides the actual playing time do you spend on the game in the top coalitions?

In Goblinpile, we're pretty talkative and spend a lot of time brainstorming and sharing ideas throughout the day. Heck, I even have a browser tab open at work most of the time to chit-chat with people. As far as playtime, I pretty much do the TG - ToTP - AX routine each day when applicable, but if I'm tuning a specific deck or strategy, I'll keep picking away at it until I'm satisfied.