GIVE ME MY GREG BACK

Mburn7

Gotta say, out of all the balancing done with Rivals the changes to Greg are absolutely the worst.

I mean, even at his worst, he was still able to use abilities.  Now he just spams the first one no matter how charged up he is.
And he still kills his own creatures.
And he makes off-color matches now for no discernible reason.

At least he still gets match-5s!

But seriously, the better AI was nice to have.  I don't see the reason for the (as someone else here so eloquently put it) lobotomy.  Just give us back our nice semi-intelligent Greg and get rid of this hit by a semi-truck version.

Please

UweTellkampf

The game is so so so dull again. I can move some gems randomly around and I will outsmart this piece of wood that Greg has become again. Make Greg great again!

bk1234

Brainly Greg was a worthwhile opponent. Lobotomy Greg is just "eh". 

NinjaE

It was a little too ridiculous at times.

UweTellkampf

Between "little too ridiculous at times" and "way too easy always" in gaming, I'd always choose the first option. 

Laeuftbeidir

He takes match 5s against you? If they wouldn't have been able to actually fine-tune IXL and the current coalition event, I'd have said they only know extremes. Slow Greg is lame.

FindingHeart8

I dunno, Ob Nix Greg always seems to go for his ultimate and use his spells as if I was actually fighting a fairly skilled player.  I'd be interested in facing this easy Greg you all speak of.

Mburn7

FindingHeart8 said:

I dunno, Ob Nix Greg always seems to go for his ultimate and use his spells as if I was actually fighting a fairly skilled player.  I'd be interested in facing this easy Greg you all speak of.

I faced a Samut that cascaded out her ult turn 4 and just spammed her first every turn for the rest of the game.  It was nasty, but not consistent with how I know the AI (or a player) would play it.  I've seen other walkers spam their first when the second or third is charged (Bolas, Dovin, Sorin are quick examples) as well, so I know it isn't a localized thing

FindingHeart8

I am noticing the AI making matches that continuously disable my creatures via the special RtO node.  It is more inconvenient than I originally had originally anticipated.

Mburn7

FindingHeart8 said:

I am noticing the AI making matches that continuously disable my creatures via the special RtO node.  It is more inconvenient than I originally had originally anticipated.

Funny, I've been noticing the AI specifically ignoring its own activated gems.  Saw a Bolas make a white match instead of a red with an activate.

Lars

Making Greg smart for just some events and not others seemed like a weird way of implementing different level, why not just make him smart for higher ranked players?

Mburn7

Lars said:

Making Greg smart for just some events and not others seemed like a weird way of implementing different level, why not just make him smart for higher ranked players?

I don't think its such a trivial matter.  Coding different AI for different opponents, whether based on tier or ranking or whatever seems to me like its pretty difficult.  I mean, we can't even agree on how difficult the AI is when its the same for everyone (except for general terms like "better than before but not as good as it was before that").

Trying to scale difficulty would also make the transition from one tier to the next that much more difficult, as players would need to adjust to both their new opponents having better decks and the better AI

Lars

Mburn7 said:

Lars said:

Making Greg smart for just some events and not others seemed like a weird way of implementing different level, why not just make him smart for higher ranked players?

I don't think its such a trivial matter.  Coding different AI for different opponents, whether based on tier or ranking or whatever seems to me like its pretty difficult.  I mean, we can't even agree on how difficult the AI is when its the same for everyone (except for general terms like "better than before but not as good as it was before that").

Well, it's trivial to code; I mean, they've got the old Greg and the new Greg code already; possibly even more varied levels of difficulty, from the way I read the last announcement. They just have to decide who gets to face which level, which is a non trivial decision which depends on feedback from many different users as well as what kind of experience the programmers objectively want to create.

FindingHeart8

Lars said:

Mburn7 said:

Lars said:

Making Greg smart for just some events and not others seemed like a weird way of implementing different level, why not just make him smart for higher ranked players?

I don't think its such a trivial matter.  Coding different AI for different opponents, whether based on tier or ranking or whatever seems to me like its pretty difficult.  I mean, we can't even agree on how difficult the AI is when its the same for everyone (except for general terms like "better than before but not as good as it was before that").

Well, it's trivial to code; I mean, they've got the old Greg and the new Greg code already; possibly even more varied levels of difficulty, from the way I read the last announcement. They just have to decide who gets to face which level, which is a non trivial decision which depends on feedback from many different users as well as what kind of experience the programmers objectively want to create.

maybe with each victory per specific node the AI gets more difficult in future battles with that node. 

wereotter

Honestly, I don't mind the lowered difficulty.

I don't come to the game for a challenge, I come to enjoy myself and to relax, and the higher difficulty wasn't really achieving that. It seems to me he's in a good place between the absolute moron it was prior to Ixalan and the high difficulty he has been in the last few weeks.

I also just an reminded of an issue regarding difficulty that was in play with another game I am involved in wherein the outliers of the game who were the most hardcore kept complaining that the game was too easy, and since they were the loudest voices, the developers took that to imply that they spoke for the community and massively raised the difficulty of the game. Then they took note of how few players were completing content, and started to get backlash against the higher difficulty and tuned things back down, but not until the game had suffered as a result of the higher difficulty for over a year, disengaging many players. The point is, if you're on these forums, chances are, your voice is an outlier. The typical player likely isn't on here, and likely isn't as hardcore into the game as you are, and probably will be turned away if the game is too challenging, and fewer players getting into the game, or sticking with it, is bad for the health of the game overall.

Mainloop25

Completely agree  I don't know what they did to Lili3, but she didn't use ANY of her abilities last time I played her. And there were zombies in her deck too. 

Wolfteeth

I am not sure why there isn't an in between? The mana cascades prior to his change were obnoxious and now the new Greg is just odd.  I just want fair fights and close matches

Lars

wereotter said:

The point is, if you're on these forums, chances are, your voice is an outlier. The typical player likely isn't on here, and likely isn't as hardcore into the game as you are, and probably will be turned away if the game is too challenging, and fewer players getting into the game, or sticking with it, is bad for the health of the game overall.

I'm not sure that's true. Casual players are _more_ likely to be represented on forums, as they are more interested in the social side of the game, which is what forums represent. A forum poster might be better at articulating _why_ they think some aspect of game should be changed than an 'average' player, or simply have more time to engage in the forums to do that, but there's no particular reason why posting on forums automatically makes you less representative of the game's players as a group.

Mburn7

Mainloop25 said:

Completely agree  I don't know what they did to Lili3, but she didn't use ANY of her abilities last time I played her. And there were zombies in her deck too. 

Lil 3 does not use her ability on zombie creatures, only non-zombie.  Usually that means she just saves up for her ult, but since the AI is no longer allowed to use any abilities but the first (apparently) she just fizzles

wereotter

Lars said:

wereotter said:

The point is, if you're on these forums, chances are, your voice is an outlier. The typical player likely isn't on here, and likely isn't as hardcore into the game as you are, and probably will be turned away if the game is too challenging, and fewer players getting into the game, or sticking with it, is bad for the health of the game overall.

I'm not sure that's true. Casual players are _more_ likely to be represented on forums, as they are more interested in the social side of the game, which is what forums represent. A forum poster might be better at articulating _why_ they think some aspect of game should be changed than an 'average' player, or simply have more time to engage in the forums to do that, but there's no particular reason why posting on forums automatically makes you less representative of the game's players as a group.

I’m referring to the casual player as the one who just downloaded the app and plays it. They may not even know a forum exists for the game, let alone chat on it if they do. This is who I had in mind when I mention that kind of player.

I mean consider how many players exist in this game, then think about how many names you see here and with what frequency. The majority of players don’t give feedback on here. 

Lars

wereotter said:

Lars said:

wereotter said:

The point is, if you're on these forums, chances are, your voice is an outlier. The typical player likely isn't on here, and likely isn't as hardcore into the game as you are, and probably will be turned away if the game is too challenging, and fewer players getting into the game, or sticking with it, is bad for the health of the game overall.

I'm not sure that's true. Casual players are _more_ likely to be represented on forums, as they are more interested in the social side of the game, which is what forums represent. A forum poster might be better at articulating _why_ they think some aspect of game should be changed than an 'average' player, or simply have more time to engage in the forums to do that, but there's no particular reason why posting on forums automatically makes you less representative of the game's players as a group.

I’m referring to the casual player as the one who just downloaded the app and plays it. They may not even know a forum exists for the game, let alone chat on it if they do. This is who I had in mind when I mention that kind of player.

I mean consider how many players exist in this game, then think about how many names you see here and with what frequency. The majority of players don’t give feedback on here. 

True; but just because a minority of players post here, it doesn't mean they are 'outliers'. Since they are players, their views are entirely representative of players.