PvE on a Schedule - What’s the fix?

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Comments

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    animaniactoo said:
    TetsujinOni said:
    animaniactoo said:

    Sub opens: Have 8 hours to complete the first 2 clears for full points. At the end of that 8 hours, have another 8 hours to complete the next 2 clears for full points. After that 4th clear, points refresh as usual until the end of the sub, with only 1 or 2 additional clears possible.

    My thinking around this is in terms of breaking up the play and the repetitiveness and not having to be glued to it for a large block of time every day in order to be somewhat competitive, which I believe is the other biggest roadblock that keeps people from engaging in the PVE mode.
    That requires three engagements during the day rather than one, for ~ 20 matches per engagement. They moved *away* from that windowing...

    Also, your  posited mode optimizes like this:
    Sub opens: Do nothing
    Sub open +8Hours-2-clear-time: 2 clears from "sub open" window
    Sub open + 8hours: race through 2 clears to start refresh timing
    Sub end: End grind (which would be a 1 or 2 grind in your model?).

    So, your proposal seems to only move the "clear" 4-clear time forward by approximately 8 hours. Did I misunderstand something in your proposal?
    Sub Opens - do 2 clears sometime in the next 8 hours. (for full points)
    Sub Opens +8 hrs: Clear 2x as soon as possible after the initial 8 hrs has passed. (for full points)
    Sub End: End Grind.

    I might be mistaken, but I think on average, people have a lot more time for 3 ~30 minute blocks of time on a schedule, than they do for a single 1.5-2 hour block.

    From my experience, in order to get worthwhile rewards to progress your roster, after the first month or so, you don't move outside of that 1.5-2 hour block until you make it to high 4* or 5* land where you can minimize your clears down to ~30 min on each side of the sub end/open - and even then you're still putting in a single 1 hour solid block of time. More manageable, but I don't think sustainable from a real world vantage point and therefore I do not think should be the optimal possibility from a PD standpoint. It's a testament to the game's appeal that so many of us have been willing to pour our time and energy into it in this way. From a PD standpoint, I would be pulling on that appeal to make the game more accessible to a wider audience and trying to be realistic about how much time the average person has to play at a single point of the day every single day (or most days).
    So the clears that matter would be 8 hours after the sub start, which would force me to clear at 2am if I play s2, the only slice that works for end grinding.

    Nope, not going to trade that for the current system.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    animaniactoo said:
    ZeroKarma said:
    I wanted to create a separate thread to discuss this topic since it is derailing the related but separate discussion on tapping fixes.

    There have been several suggestions. Let’s keep them here so they don’t get lost.

    My biggest concerns are:

    1. That the introduction of too many more time slices will dilute and fracture the player base and leave dead slices with little to no participation.

     2. That D3 will restrict rewards to ensure that they aren’t opening the vault.

    3. That the fix to eliminate time slices will take a long time and a decent amount of man hours to make happen and

    4. That there is no monetary incentive for D3 to do so since they have to justify said resources.

    Thoughts?
    Line by line here...

    1) The player base is already diluted and fractured by living in different time zones. Both globally, and within the US where the playerbase is the largest. One of the biggest things pushing me out of playing (before I was forced to stop) was the fact that I don't have a time slice that actually works for me - certainly not once work moved out of famine mode back into feast mode (and this is true of other professions as well, teachers, etc.) Neither does most of the rest of the East Coast who works or does anything regularly on a fairly 9-5 schedule. 

    Given that I believe that a lot of the player base would shift into an additional slice, but there would be more than enough to cover the rest. I also think it would gain more players who would be willing to play the PVE side, but currently don't because they don't like working against the disadvantage. So basically, I think this is a negative nelly concern which is actually creating more fracturing and diluting than if they instituted a more even distribution.

    2) I agree that this is possible, but I hope that they would be willing to test it before enacting it.

    3) Potentially.

    4) More players and happier players are more sources of income. If they're going to step over the dollar to pick up the dime, that's a shortsighted view on their side of what the monetary incentive would be to create that fix *if* it were deemed to be the most player-friendly and workable.

    ----------------------------------------

    Personally, I would like to see 6 slices, with a 4 hour distribution spread between them. This should be a very very simple thing to do unless there is something significantly wrong with the code that underpins the entire game. I believe that would give most players something that worked well for them at some point along the day.

    I would also like to see a difference in how the refreshes are handled. My push would be:

    Sub opens: Have 8 hours to complete the first 2 clears for full points. At the end of that 8 hours, have another 8 hours to complete the next 2 clears for full points. After that 4th clear, points refresh as usual until the end of the sub, with only 1 or 2 additional clears possible.

    My thinking around this is in terms of breaking up the play and the repetitiveness and not having to be glued to it for a large block of time every day in order to be somewhat competitive, which I believe is the other biggest roadblock that keeps people from engaging in the PVE mode.
    TetsujinOni that every 8 hours was the old way and people didn't like it.  It was mostly before my time, but my impression is the move to the new system is what caused the time slice problem (or at least made it much worse).  So i would think either fix the time slice problem to where the majority/all players have a reasonable window to spend 1-2 hours grinding concurrently or spread the clears back out.  I don't think both makes sense, though I do see your point. 

    Ideally if points didn't recharge it wouldn't matter when people did them.  That would be the ideal so people could choose, but the only ways I can think to do that is A. Get rid of placement.  B.  Totally new way of determining placement.
  • TetsujinOni
    TetsujinOni Posts: 181 Tile Toppler
    broll said:
    animaniactoo said:
    ZeroKarma said:
    I wanted to create a separate thread to discuss this topic since it is derailing the related but separate discussion on tapping fixes.

    There have been several suggestions. Let’s keep them here so they don’t get lost.

    My biggest concerns are:

    1. That the introduction of too many more time slices will dilute and fracture the player base and leave dead slices with little to no participation.

     2. That D3 will restrict rewards to ensure that they aren’t opening the vault.

    3. That the fix to eliminate time slices will take a long time and a decent amount of man hours to make happen and

    4. That there is no monetary incentive for D3 to do so since they have to justify said resources.

    Thoughts?
    Line by line here...

    1) The player base is already diluted and fractured by living in different time zones. Both globally, and within the US where the playerbase is the largest. One of the biggest things pushing me out of playing (before I was forced to stop) was the fact that I don't have a time slice that actually works for me - certainly not once work moved out of famine mode back into feast mode (and this is true of other professions as well, teachers, etc.) Neither does most of the rest of the East Coast who works or does anything regularly on a fairly 9-5 schedule. 

    Given that I believe that a lot of the player base would shift into an additional slice, but there would be more than enough to cover the rest. I also think it would gain more players who would be willing to play the PVE side, but currently don't because they don't like working against the disadvantage. So basically, I think this is a negative nelly concern which is actually creating more fracturing and diluting than if they instituted a more even distribution.

    2) I agree that this is possible, but I hope that they would be willing to test it before enacting it.

    3) Potentially.

    4) More players and happier players are more sources of income. If they're going to step over the dollar to pick up the dime, that's a shortsighted view on their side of what the monetary incentive would be to create that fix *if* it were deemed to be the most player-friendly and workable.

    ----------------------------------------

    Personally, I would like to see 6 slices, with a 4 hour distribution spread between them. This should be a very very simple thing to do unless there is something significantly wrong with the code that underpins the entire game. I believe that would give most players something that worked well for them at some point along the day.

    I would also like to see a difference in how the refreshes are handled. My push would be:

    Sub opens: Have 8 hours to complete the first 2 clears for full points. At the end of that 8 hours, have another 8 hours to complete the next 2 clears for full points. After that 4th clear, points refresh as usual until the end of the sub, with only 1 or 2 additional clears possible.

    My thinking around this is in terms of breaking up the play and the repetitiveness and not having to be glued to it for a large block of time every day in order to be somewhat competitive, which I believe is the other biggest roadblock that keeps people from engaging in the PVE mode.
    TetsujinOni that every 8 hours was the old way and people didn't like it.  It was mostly before my time, but my impression is the move to the new system is what caused the time slice problem (or at least made it much worse).  So i would think either fix the time slice problem to where the majority/all players have a reasonable window to spend 1-2 hours grinding concurrently or spread the clears back out.  I don't think both makes sense, though I do see your point. 

    Ideally if points didn't recharge it wouldn't matter when people did them.  That would be the ideal so people could choose, but the only ways I can think to do that is A. Get rid of placement.  B.  Totally new way of determining placement.
    Think you're only responding to @animaniactoo above...

    My analysis and @Bowgentle 's are in alignment that the Animaniactoo proposal creates a play pattern of play, wait almost 8 hours, play, wait almost 16 hours, instead of play, wait almost 24, play. 

    This does not seem to be an improvement.
  • ZeroKarma
    ZeroKarma Posts: 513 Critical Contributor
    edited March 2018
    broll said:
    ZeroKarma said:


    4) More players and happier players are more sources of income. If they're going to step over the dollar to pick up the dime, that's a shortsighted view on their side of what the monetary incentive would be to create that fix *if* it were deemed to be the most player-friendly and workable.
    So, I don’t want to outright challenge this, but a similar premise was floated with regards to win-based PVP. 

    Given that was targeted as a QoL improvement for the masses, it should have resulted in happier people spending more money. But instead it spooked the devs so much that they reverted to the old system and haven’t even discussed it since.

    What would be different here? 
    The devs haven't posted their rational for pulling win based, so you can't conclusively say this.  It could have been high spending players boycotting which could translate here, it could have also been far less HP spent/IRL purchases on HP spending which would not have an impact here.
    I think that those metrics must have had a significant impact. It would be very reasonable to make that assumption.

    Now, while a new interface for PvE may not scare people away, if it allows for more relaxed play that doesn’t require the use of boosts and health packs, and this relaxed play results in fewer rewards which would certainly turn off members of the player base then you would have a problem with engagement and with finances.

    But this is not done in a vacuum either. If it requires resources it must drive revenue and engagement. I have not seen where there will be more money flowing into the game. With regards to engagement, we would also have to assume that there is a significant portion of the playerbase that doesn’t play PvE because of time slices. Unfortunately, we don’t have access to those numbers so we can only theorize.

  • animaniactoo
    animaniactoo Posts: 486 Mover and Shaker
    Bowgentle said:
    animaniactoo said:
    TetsujinOni said:
    animaniactoo said:

    Sub opens: Have 8 hours to complete the first 2 clears for full points. At the end of that 8 hours, have another 8 hours to complete the next 2 clears for full points. After that 4th clear, points refresh as usual until the end of the sub, with only 1 or 2 additional clears possible.

    My thinking around this is in terms of breaking up the play and the repetitiveness and not having to be glued to it for a large block of time every day in order to be somewhat competitive, which I believe is the other biggest roadblock that keeps people from engaging in the PVE mode.
    That requires three engagements during the day rather than one, for ~ 20 matches per engagement. They moved *away* from that windowing...

    Also, your  posited mode optimizes like this:
    Sub opens: Do nothing
    Sub open +8Hours-2-clear-time: 2 clears from "sub open" window
    Sub open + 8hours: race through 2 clears to start refresh timing
    Sub end: End grind (which would be a 1 or 2 grind in your model?).

    So, your proposal seems to only move the "clear" 4-clear time forward by approximately 8 hours. Did I misunderstand something in your proposal?
    Sub Opens - do 2 clears sometime in the next 8 hours. (for full points)
    Sub Opens +8 hrs: Clear 2x as soon as possible after the initial 8 hrs has passed. (for full points)
    Sub End: End Grind.

    I might be mistaken, but I think on average, people have a lot more time for 3 ~30 minute blocks of time on a schedule, than they do for a single 1.5-2 hour block.

    From my experience, in order to get worthwhile rewards to progress your roster, after the first month or so, you don't move outside of that 1.5-2 hour block until you make it to high 4* or 5* land where you can minimize your clears down to ~30 min on each side of the sub end/open - and even then you're still putting in a single 1 hour solid block of time. More manageable, but I don't think sustainable from a real world vantage point and therefore I do not think should be the optimal possibility from a PD standpoint. It's a testament to the game's appeal that so many of us have been willing to pour our time and energy into it in this way. From a PD standpoint, I would be pulling on that appeal to make the game more accessible to a wider audience and trying to be realistic about how much time the average person has to play at a single point of the day every single day (or most days).
    So the clears that matter would be 8 hours after the sub start, which would force me to clear at 2am if I play s2, the only slice that works for end grinding.

    Nope, not going to trade that for the current system.
    Yes, I only favor this in combination with adding an additional slice with an even distribution across the slices, which would give people better access to slice times that work for them. I would not favor it at all under the current distribution as there is no slice time in which I could make this work optimally, any more than I can make any slice time optimally work now, and it would only make it worse.
  • animaniactoo
    animaniactoo Posts: 486 Mover and Shaker
    edited March 2018

    broll said:
    animaniactoo said:
    ZeroKarma said:
    I wanted to create a separate thread to discuss this topic since it is derailing the related but separate discussion on tapping fixes.

    There have been several suggestions. Let’s keep them here so they don’t get lost.

    My biggest concerns are:

    1. That the introduction of too many more time slices will dilute and fracture the player base and leave dead slices with little to no participation.

     2. That D3 will restrict rewards to ensure that they aren’t opening the vault.

    3. That the fix to eliminate time slices will take a long time and a decent amount of man hours to make happen and

    4. That there is no monetary incentive for D3 to do so since they have to justify said resources.

    Thoughts?
    Line by line here...

    1) The player base is already diluted and fractured by living in different time zones. Both globally, and within the US where the playerbase is the largest. One of the biggest things pushing me out of playing (before I was forced to stop) was the fact that I don't have a time slice that actually works for me - certainly not once work moved out of famine mode back into feast mode (and this is true of other professions as well, teachers, etc.) Neither does most of the rest of the East Coast who works or does anything regularly on a fairly 9-5 schedule. 

    Given that I believe that a lot of the player base would shift into an additional slice, but there would be more than enough to cover the rest. I also think it would gain more players who would be willing to play the PVE side, but currently don't because they don't like working against the disadvantage. So basically, I think this is a negative nelly concern which is actually creating more fracturing and diluting than if they instituted a more even distribution.

    2) I agree that this is possible, but I hope that they would be willing to test it before enacting it.

    3) Potentially.

    4) More players and happier players are more sources of income. If they're going to step over the dollar to pick up the dime, that's a shortsighted view on their side of what the monetary incentive would be to create that fix *if* it were deemed to be the most player-friendly and workable.

    ----------------------------------------

    Personally, I would like to see 6 slices, with a 4 hour distribution spread between them. This should be a very very simple thing to do unless there is something significantly wrong with the code that underpins the entire game. I believe that would give most players something that worked well for them at some point along the day.

    I would also like to see a difference in how the refreshes are handled. My push would be:

    Sub opens: Have 8 hours to complete the first 2 clears for full points. At the end of that 8 hours, have another 8 hours to complete the next 2 clears for full points. After that 4th clear, points refresh as usual until the end of the sub, with only 1 or 2 additional clears possible.

    My thinking around this is in terms of breaking up the play and the repetitiveness and not having to be glued to it for a large block of time every day in order to be somewhat competitive, which I believe is the other biggest roadblock that keeps people from engaging in the PVE mode.
    TetsujinOni that every 8 hours was the old way and people didn't like it.  It was mostly before my time, but my impression is the move to the new system is what caused the time slice problem (or at least made it much worse).  So i would think either fix the time slice problem to where the majority/all players have a reasonable window to spend 1-2 hours grinding concurrently or spread the clears back out.  I don't think both makes sense, though I do see your point. 

    Ideally if points didn't recharge it wouldn't matter when people did them.  That would be the ideal so people could choose, but the only ways I can think to do that is A. Get rid of placement.  B.  Totally new way of determining placement.
    I may be missing the history of the game, but I think the every 8 hours was that points refreshed during those 8 hours, so you were much more tied to the clock for trying to optimize your points within each hour bracket.

    However, I also think that in general 2 hours a day grinding concurrently (for optimal play) is not a realistic goal for player engagement on a daily (or near daily) basis, and that needs a solution over and above a more workable time slice.
  • Jrlrma
    Jrlrma Posts: 65 Match Maker
    Just dump the slices and solo placement altogether, if an event is x days, you have x days from the start to finish the event. take the rewards from solo placement, put them in an alliance progression system like for bosses and everybody wins imo. This doesnt take money out of the devs pockets and makes alot of people happy which will in turn put money in the devs pockets. 

  • Jrlrma
    Jrlrma Posts: 65 Match Maker
    edited March 2018
    Looks like @Dormammu beat me to the idea lol
  • Jrlrma
    Jrlrma Posts: 65 Match Maker
    ZeroKarma said:
    Dormammu said:
    I'd like to see individual placement removed. Take those rewards and shift them to alliance progression rewards, similar to what we have in boss events.
    I think this is interesting as an addition rather than a replacement. Maybe having alliances splitting up to unlock different paths of a story line.

     Changing PvE rewards more to the alliance side will cause some major upheaval across the game and will put a ton of pressure from commanders to Merc out or kick low performers with higher frequency.
    Im fairly new to the game and the community, but doesnt that already happen now? This forum and mpq reddit have daily posts about openings for alliances some competitive, others more casual, etc. especially before boss events. 


  • rixmith
    rixmith Posts: 707 Critical Contributor
    For me, the overall amount of time I spend in PVE is about right. I just would like more flexibility so that it doesn't have to be all at once. My proposal is that we think of regular PVE a bit more like Boss battles:

    At the start of a sub put up all nodes

    They can be cleared 3 times each

    After 12 hours refresh the nodes so they can be cleared 3 times in the next 12 hours

    Each node has its base number of points and some bonus points (maybe 10% of the base) which can be earned based on the number of turns it takes to finish that node (fewer is better);

    Having the tiebreaker be based on number of turns favors stronger rosters over weaker, which I think is better than favoring someone because they timed their final clear a little better.

    With this someone could play just as they do today by doing 3 clears at the start of the sub and 3 clears at the end of the sub. Or they could spread the play out anywhere in the 12 hour window.


  • TetsujinOni
    TetsujinOni Posts: 181 Tile Toppler
    Jrlrma said:
    This doesnt take money out of the devs pockets and makes alot of people happy which will in turn put money in the devs pockets. 

    Here it is again.

    Happy people buy things at a much lower conversion rate than just-slightly-unhappy-but-can-see-how-the-lootbox-could-address-their-unhappy.


  • ZeroKarma
    ZeroKarma Posts: 513 Critical Contributor
    Jrlrma said:
    Just dump the slices and solo placement altogether, if an event is x days, you have x days from the start to finish the event. take the rewards from solo placement, put them in an alliance progression system like for bosses and everybody wins imo. This doesnt take money out of the devs pockets and makes alot of people happy which will in turn put money in the devs pockets. 

    The recommendation that you have here would generate no revenue because you wouldn’t buy boosts or health packs at all. I realize that most people don’t do that, but the top end certainly does. I’ve reduced some of my consumption by rostering additional 2*, but I spent on roster slots instead.

    Contest of Champions does something similar to what you suggest but every match costs “energy” and that means if you want to keep playing you have to buy “energy”. It’s an interesting model and you can completely skip that and play for free, but if you want to get the best rewards you have to pay for them. I would expect D3 to implement some system similar to monetize the change, especially with such a precedent. 
  • Jrlrma
    Jrlrma Posts: 65 Match Maker
    TetsujinOni said:
    Jrlrma said:
    This doesnt take money out of the devs pockets and makes alot of people happy which will in turn put money in the devs pockets. 

    Here it is again.

    Happy people buy things at a much lower conversion rate than just-slightly-unhappy-but-can-see-how-the-lootbox-could-address-their-unhappy.


    I imagine the left-the-game-because-it-demanded-complete-lifestyle-changes-to-play-somewhat-efficiently group spends less than both. 
  • ZeroKarma
    ZeroKarma Posts: 513 Critical Contributor
    Jrlrma said:
    ZeroKarma said:
    Dormammu said:
    I'd like to see individual placement removed. Take those rewards and shift them to alliance progression rewards, similar to what we have in boss events.
    I think this is interesting as an addition rather than a replacement. Maybe having alliances splitting up to unlock different paths of a story line.

     Changing PvE rewards more to the alliance side will cause some major upheaval across the game and will put a ton of pressure from commanders to Merc out or kick low performers with higher frequency.
    Im fairly new to the game and the community, but doesnt that already happen now? This forum and mpq reddit have daily posts about openings for alliances some competitive, others more casual, etc. especially before boss events. 


    There is mercing and there are regular Merc alliances formed to take in the best players. Sometimes people take a break and want to hop out of the alliance for an event. Maybe your alliance doesn’t do PVE and you want some rewards.

    in this new format most alliances would have to shift to be PvE alliances depending on the reward structure.

    Boss events are spaced apart and it is normally not hard to get people up for an occasional event. But requiring PvE participation every single day is not the standard for all alliances and so there would be a big shift
  • Jrlrma
    Jrlrma Posts: 65 Match Maker
    ZeroKarma said:
    Jrlrma said:
    ZeroKarma said:
    Dormammu said:
    I'd like to see individual placement removed. Take those rewards and shift them to alliance progression rewards, similar to what we have in boss events.
    I think this is interesting as an addition rather than a replacement. Maybe having alliances splitting up to unlock different paths of a story line.

     Changing PvE rewards more to the alliance side will cause some major upheaval across the game and will put a ton of pressure from commanders to Merc out or kick low performers with higher frequency.
    Im fairly new to the game and the community, but doesnt that already happen now? This forum and mpq reddit have daily posts about openings for alliances some competitive, others more casual, etc. especially before boss events. 


    There is mercing and there are regular Merc alliances formed to take in the best players. Sometimes people take a break and want to hop out of the alliance for an event. Maybe your alliance doesn’t do PVE and you want some rewards.

    in this new format most alliances would have to shift to be PvE alliances depending on the reward structure.

    Boss events are spaced apart and it is normally not hard to get people up for an occasional event. But requiring PvE participation every single day is not the standard for all alliances and so there would be a big shift
    If they changed it so slices were gone it wouldnt require daily play. Youd have x days to finish the event from the start. I get that it would be a dshift but imo its one for the better since you wouldnt feel like a slave to the slice time.  Some people who had a day off or during the weekend may knock out the event in a day, some may play an hour here or there as their life allows. The serious folks are gonna find each other some way somehow, and the serious alliances already play everyday to begin with
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    Jrlrma said:
    ZeroKarma said:
    Jrlrma said:
    ZeroKarma said:
    Dormammu said:
    I'd like to see individual placement removed. Take those rewards and shift them to alliance progression rewards, similar to what we have in boss events.
    I think this is interesting as an addition rather than a replacement. Maybe having alliances splitting up to unlock different paths of a story line.

     Changing PvE rewards more to the alliance side will cause some major upheaval across the game and will put a ton of pressure from commanders to Merc out or kick low performers with higher frequency.
    Im fairly new to the game and the community, but doesnt that already happen now? This forum and mpq reddit have daily posts about openings for alliances some competitive, others more casual, etc. especially before boss events. 


    There is mercing and there are regular Merc alliances formed to take in the best players. Sometimes people take a break and want to hop out of the alliance for an event. Maybe your alliance doesn’t do PVE and you want some rewards.

    in this new format most alliances would have to shift to be PvE alliances depending on the reward structure.

    Boss events are spaced apart and it is normally not hard to get people up for an occasional event. But requiring PvE participation every single day is not the standard for all alliances and so there would be a big shift
    If they changed it so slices were gone it wouldnt require daily play. Youd have x days to finish the event from the start. I get that it would be a dshift but imo its one for the better since you wouldnt feel like a slave to the slice time.  Some people who had a day off or during the weekend may knock out the event in a day, some may play an hour here or there as their life allows. The serious folks are gonna find each other some way somehow, and the serious alliances already play everyday to begin with
    They had no slices before.  Just ask @Bowgentle for a history lesson. Lol. I think he is a day 1 player.  Very few left. 
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    edited March 2018
    TetsujinOni said:
    Jrlrma said:
    This doesnt take money out of the devs pockets and makes alot of people happy which will in turn put money in the devs pockets. 

    Here it is again.

    Happy people buy things at a much lower conversion rate than just-slightly-unhappy-but-can-see-how-the-lootbox-could-address-their-unhappy.


    Here it is again, an assumption  trying to outweigh another assumption. 

    Unless you secretly work for D3 and are spilling the beans on the metrics that the rest of us forum goers aren't privy to, your guess is just as good as any other.  I have heard their were studies that show this, but when were they done?  What was the sample size?  Who paid for the study?  What game or games were used in the study?  Did it have major IP like star wars or marvel, or was it just "mobile games" in general?

    Edit:  Heck, just look at the change to the steam users and them saying they wont spend just because of how it looks now.  People will stop spending for numerous reason, why not do things that encourage rather than discourage? 

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