A Productive Discussion about Prize Restructuring....

2

Comments

  • ILikePancakes
    ILikePancakes Posts: 101 Tile Toppler
    khurram said:
    bken1234 said:uhh
    khurram said:
    I think the more suitable solution would be to remove the mythic prizes once and for all. They did it once. Players rioted. But things did settle after a while.

    But if Oktagon wants to give out mythics, the only way I see that players would not rage as much about other people winning a mythic is if it were an individual prize, instead of a coalition one, in an RTO or HoD style PvP event and only the top 5 ranks got it. That I think people can stomach without screaming injustice.


    I would agree with this only if it were the same for all tiers. IE top 50 in each bracket of each tier got it. And brackets should not be 3000. 
    I disagree. Competition in platinum is very cutthroat for such events. Even a single point can make all the difference. You only have to look at disparity in top scores for lower brackets to know that players don't have to pay that steep a price for mistakes over there. So no, its definitely not the same as platinum and neither should be the prize distribution. Why should someone who played way poorly than a more competitive player get the same reward. I would even suggest top 2 for bronze and silver but absolutely no more than top 5, top 5 in gold and platinum but no more than top 25. (i know, how very toxic)

    You yourself may not care much for placing top but there are players who do and they bust their tinykitty for it. And i believe in working hard for those prizes. I tried but did not win dynavolt, aetherwoks, and planar bridge but I did not sulk around begrudging those who did win like they had done some crime against me. Championing for little guys is one thing but I don't understand this mentality of making it a free for all lately.

    I think it's important to keep competition alive in the game and have appropriate level of incentives and rewards across different tiers, accordingly. 
    Competition is great, but what matters most is the specific cards one has has to play. The better cards one has, the better one does. Sometimes luck bites in the butt, but it's the cards. There really isn't a focus on strategy with events, because if there was, there should be platinum events where the only cards you can play are common and uncommon with the base 5 PWs. Want a challenge? Let's do that instead of playing cards that amount to an instant win for those fortunate enough to have them.
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2018
    khurram said:
    I'd be open to events that restrict the usage of  cards based on rarity. Maybe an uncommon cards only event. Those would be a great addition to the game.
    I'd been advocating for this for ages.  An iron chef style of event in which  random rules were announced 4 hours before it begins for build  restrictions (not objectives mind you) something we've never had before in an event (to my knowledge post nov. 2016)

    I.e. like what you mentioned. Uncommon cards only. 
    Or
    One mythic and/or one rare allotment allowed. 
    Or 
    Tribal requirement: elves, minotaurs, pirates etc.
    Or
    One support limit. 
    Or 
    Uncommon and common only with one mythic unit as a commander. 

  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    [MOD MIC ON] Please remember to keep all comments on topic to the original post. Thanks! [//MOD MIC]
  • DBJones
    DBJones Posts: 803 Critical Contributor
    Those giant brackets are indeed a nightmare, especially when you're required to use a certain Planeswalker you don't have a good setup for yet. I also hope they start adding more ways to get orbs soon. They did say they'd add them as event rewards when crafting was announced, I hope they also switch out some of the daily rune rewards with orbs. Both would be really nice for new players who don't have good ways of getting cards, and a nice little boost for the top players.
  • Sirchombli
    Sirchombli Posts: 322 Mover and Shaker
    I'm in a weird place in this. For all intents and purposes, I'm a top player . I'm in a top 10 coalition . I hold my own and actively contribute to the group's ranking . I'm also mostly f2p . Therefore I fall into the category of the rich , but I rely upon those awards . Ixalan has shown me that I'll be fine without them, but I used to love the first month or two of a new set because I got to explore the new set without dumping my wallet on the table . I'm all for good prizes ,but I do agree that they need to be made more widely available. I agree with B .
  • adman149
    adman149 Posts: 22 Just Dropped In
    I can’t say it any better than @madwren did in this matter. As a former top 10 player, giving these prizes out reignites the divide between the rich and the “not rich”. While I probably fall into the rich category, event mythics are not healthy for the game. With crafting and elite packs (and more access to purples), there is no need to divide the community yet again. Put it in the elite pack and move on. While I could probably find myself a top 10 team to join to get this card, I will not being doing so. Let’s hope oktagon takes these suggestions into account. 
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    khurram said:
    Kinesia said:

    The people that fight the most to prove themselves, if the reward to their ego isn't enough don't feed them with prizes as well. Make exclusive _cosmetic_ things for them, not stuff that will help them stay on top of the mountain, if they need help then they don't deserve to stay there and if they don't then they don't, either way, no special things, not ever. Their normal rewards are enough.

    Oh wow, where do you keep getting all that negativity from. I mean-- ego? They don't deserve to stay there? 

    Just to be certain that I am not getting it wrong. You are asking the devs to basically say "screw you" to the most dedicated segment of their player base who have stood by the game through all this time through all the hiccups, simply because you feel like you can't catch up to those players?

    Encourage the newcomers by all means. But people need to stop trying to make players feel guilty about doing better than someone who started playing yesterday.

    No. I'm saying it's already a slopy mountain, I'm saying they already get better rewards than everyone else.
    They are already king of the hill and everything is already in place for them to stay at the top forever until they get bored or stressed or tired. Other people don't get on the hill by playing better, they get on the hill when the current people fall off.  (And, sure, there are a few around the edges that are honorary hillarians.)


    I am not saying take away anything they already have, just... What is the point in _giving_ (and to be clear, it is just giving) something to reward specific people?

    They "deserve' (though that word is highly loaded) their current rewards, they don't deserve something other people will never be able to get "just because". It won't "encourage competition", it will just induce despair and pointlessness in others.


    Wanting a special reward that noone else has... That's not "collecting", that _is_ ego, that is counting it as special specifically because others can't get it and you are therefore better than them.
  • khurram
    khurram Posts: 1,090 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think the solution here is simply to not put any mythic rewards for coalitions anymore since it's only going to divide players.
  • khurram
    khurram Posts: 1,090 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think the solution here is simply to not put any mythic rewards for coalitions anymore since it's only going to divide players.
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    Kinesia said:
    The pink crystals are the replacements for "elite exclusive cards" and they should be used here.

    Make it a once off buy purple reward that costs a specific amount of purple crystals, the top players can buy it straight away from their winnings, everyone else can work up to it over a number of events.

    The people that fight the most to prove themselves, if the reward to their ego isn't enough don't feed them with prizes as well. Make exclusive _cosmetic_ things for them, not stuff that will help them stay on top of the mountain, if they need help then they don't deserve to stay there and if they don't then they don't, either way, no special things, not ever. Their normal rewards are enough.

    It's the newcomers that need the encouragement. Have a progression reward for it that people can work on over multiple copies of the event. So you can earn it with a middling score 3 or 4 events in a row. That people that struggle but persevere, they are the ones that deserve encouragement and help and high fives.




    don't know why you got flagged for this; you make some very valid points.

    New players need to be a top priority so we can get more of them and grow this game, with the benefit of being a top player being cosmetic perks (and then they can feel like they're being admired by all the new players who entered the game).
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    bken1234 said:
    It's time to have a dedicated discussing about coalition prize changes in Ixalan. There have been two major changes which are absolutely detrimental to anyone who isn't playing in a top tier coalition. 

    1. The rares have been taken out of RtO -- for top tier players, this isn't a big deal. I have 25 IXN rares already -- I'd like River's Rebuke, but I don't need it -- however for mid-level, newer and casual players -- this isn't ok. They depend on these rewards to be successful. They are a key factor in engagement and retention in this game. I would even go as far to say there should be more opportunities to obtain rares in events -- like a top tier progression score (70% or so) -- which would engage players who maybe don't play as much to play more -- and would also benefit all the thousands of players who are not in top 100 coalitions. 

    2. The top 10 exclusive mythic in The Battle of Four Tribes -- There are 200 top 10 players in this game -- two hundred of thousands -- with some occasional pop-ins -- the same 10 teams finish top 10 every week. That means this card will be available to only 200 players -- week after week. Of course, large alliances and A-B teams can sub in players from their lower coalitions to earn the card in successive runs -- but where does that leave all the other players who chose to play with independent teams? The solution to this, again, would be to offer the card to anyone who reaches a certain, much higher than progression score. Or, you know, just not give out exclusive mythics anymore. 

    I really like the direction Oktagon is going with so many things, but I just can't stand behind any decisions that cause the rich to get richer -- one of the great things about this game is we have tons of brilliant, top players who, by choice, don't belong to top 10 or even top 100 coalitions -- they score well in events and we know them and see them on the leaderboards all the time -- these players work just as hard as any top 10 player. 

    Let's step back and remember that top players are not the future of this game, engaging and retaining new and mid-level players is the key to the continuation. When the model is pointed at end game players, nothing good can come from it. 
    yesyesyesyesyesyesyes all the yes :)
  • Jaff
    Jaff Posts: 12 Just Dropped In
    bken1234 said:
    It's time to have a dedicated discussing about coalition prize changes in Ixalan. There have been two major changes which are absolutely detrimental to anyone who isn't playing in a top tier coalition. 

    1. The rares have been taken out of RtO -- for top tier players, this isn't a big deal. I have 25 IXN rares already -- I'd like River's Rebuke, but I don't need it -- however for mid-level, newer and casual players -- this isn't ok. They depend on these rewards to be successful. They are a key factor in engagement and retention in this game. I would even go as far to say there should be more opportunities to obtain rares in events -- like a top tier progression score (70% or so) -- which would engage players who maybe don't play as much to play more -- and would also benefit all the thousands of players who are not in top 100 coalitions. 

    2. The top 10 exclusive mythic in The Battle of Four Tribes -- There are 200 top 10 players in this game -- two hundred of thousands -- with some occasional pop-ins -- the same 10 teams finish top 10 every week. That means this card will be available to only 200 players -- week after week. Of course, large alliances and A-B teams can sub in players from their lower coalitions to earn the card in successive runs -- but where does that leave all the other players who chose to play with independent teams? The solution to this, again, would be to offer the card to anyone who reaches a certain, much higher than progression score. Or, you know, just not give out exclusive mythics anymore. 

    I really like the direction Oktagon is going with so many things, but I just can't stand behind any decisions that cause the rich to get richer -- one of the great things about this game is we have tons of brilliant, top players who, by choice, don't belong to top 10 or even top 100 coalitions -- they score well in events and we know them and see them on the leaderboards all the time -- these players work just as hard as any top 10 player. 

    Let's step back and remember that top players are not the future of this game, engaging and retaining new and mid-level players is the key to the continuation. When the model is pointed at end game players, nothing good can come from it. 
    Hello Bken,

    I totally agree with your post. As you know my start on these game was hard, because the rewards was hard and weak to low level players. You know my happy of beat all 3rd node on RAtC with G1 using 10 uncommon cards.

    I'll be happy if these progression be implemented 
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    I was really hoping that rares would be reinstated into RtO. 

    No such change -- once again the 99% takes the hit. 
  • ambrosio191
    ambrosio191 Posts: 314 Mover and Shaker
    Well in an around about way they reinstated the rare reward for the top 2 coalitions in the form of a Premium Pack for The Battle of Four Tribes, I guess the free mythic wasn't enough.

    The guaranteed rare for the top 100 coalitions was the reason I joined a coalition in the first place.  It was the only way I could expand my collection, without spending thousands of dollars, as a gold player who didnt have access to the rare progression rewards platinum players were getting.  It was the reason I played beyond progression for events.  I'd say there is no reason to play beyond progression anymore except with the new event you have to get 90% of the max score just to hit it, so the entire event is progression at this point.

    I sure hope the 200 people in top 10 coalitions can sustain this game for themselves because at this rate there won't be a reason for others to play.
  • Bil
    Bil Posts: 831 Critical Contributor
        The whole rewards in this event are such a nonsense ... Without even mentioning the awful gap beetween top 10 coalition rewards and the rest of the pack ... The progression rewards for a 1000 points grinding are really disapointing ...
        I think ROTGP would look more exciting even after 6 months ... 
        

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