A Productive Discussion about Prize Restructuring....

bk1234
bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
in MtGPQ General Discussion
It's time to have a dedicated discussing about coalition prize changes in Ixalan. There have been two major changes which are absolutely detrimental to anyone who isn't playing in a top tier coalition. 

1. The rares have been taken out of RtO -- for top tier players, this isn't a big deal. I have 25 IXN rares already -- I'd like River's Rebuke, but I don't need it -- however for mid-level, newer and casual players -- this isn't ok. They depend on these rewards to be successful. They are a key factor in engagement and retention in this game. I would even go as far to say there should be more opportunities to obtain rares in events -- like a top tier progression score (70% or so) -- which would engage players who maybe don't play as much to play more -- and would also benefit all the thousands of players who are not in top 100 coalitions. 

2. The top 10 exclusive mythic in The Battle of Four Tribes -- There are 200 top 10 players in this game -- two hundred of thousands -- with some occasional pop-ins -- the same 10 teams finish top 10 every week. That means this card will be available to only 200 players -- week after week. Of course, large alliances and A-B teams can sub in players from their lower coalitions to earn the card in successive runs -- but where does that leave all the other players who chose to play with independent teams? The solution to this, again, would be to offer the card to anyone who reaches a certain, much higher than progression score. Or, you know, just not give out exclusive mythics anymore. 

I really like the direction Oktagon is going with so many things, but I just can't stand behind any decisions that cause the rich to get richer -- one of the great things about this game is we have tons of brilliant, top players who, by choice, don't belong to top 10 or even top 100 coalitions -- they score well in events and we know them and see them on the leaderboards all the time -- these players work just as hard as any top 10 player. 

Let's step back and remember that top players are not the future of this game, engaging and retaining new and mid-level players is the key to the continuation. When the model is pointed at end game players, nothing good can come from it. 
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Comments

  • deletedgone
    deletedgone Posts: 166 Tile Toppler
    I’m a beneficiary of the best event rewards this game offers, and agree with both points raised in the first post.
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    bken1234 said:
    It's time to have a dedicated discussing about coalition prize changes in Ixalan. There have been two major changes which are absolutely detrimental to anyone who isn't playing in a top tier coalition. 

    1. The rares have been taken out of RtO -- for top tier players, this isn't a big deal. I have 25 IXN rares already -- I'd like River's Rebuke, but I don't need it -- however for mid-level, newer and casual players -- this isn't ok. They depend on these rewards to be successful. They are a key factor in engagement and retention in this game. I would even go as far to say there should be more opportunities to obtain rares in events -- like a top tier progression score (70% or so) -- which would engage players who maybe don't play as much to play more -- and would also benefit all the thousands of players who are not in top 100 coalitions. 

    2. The top 10 exclusive mythic in The Battle of Four Tribes -- There are 200 top 10 players in this game -- two hundred of thousands -- with some occasional pop-ins -- the same 10 teams finish top 10 every week. That means this card will be available to only 200 players -- week after week. Of course, large alliances and A-B teams can sub in players from their lower coalitions to earn the card in successive runs -- but where does that leave all the other players who chose to play with independent teams? The solution to this, again, would be to offer the card to anyone who reaches a certain, much higher than progression score. Or, you know, just not give out exclusive mythics anymore. 

    I really like the direction Oktagon is going with so many things, but I just can't stand behind any decisions that cause the rich to get richer -- one of the great things about this game is we have tons of brilliant, top players who, by choice, don't belong to top 10 or even top 100 coalitions -- they score well in events and we know them and see them on the leaderboards all the time -- these players work just as hard as any top 10 player. 

    Let's step back and remember that top players are not the future of this game, engaging and retaining new and mid-level players is the key to the continuation. When the model is pointed at end game players, nothing good can come from it. 
    Well said, I really like the progression score idea.
  • Theros
    Theros Posts: 490 Mover and Shaker
    I totally agree with you.
    However there are top players /coalitions who think otherwise. The top 10 team rewards is to them a way to reward them for their efforts and keep them engaged. Their argument is also that competitive rewards is somehow healthy for the community and what not.
    This was a months old outcry that will resurface with new updates. Some had left when mythic were no longer rewarded. All of this gave rise to criticism  like toxic elites and entitlements.

    Another thorny issue which divided us back then was about periodically resetting  global coalition ranking. I used to be a coalition leader and from experience, it's extremely difficult for any team to move up a rank no matter how well teammates play. This is true for any team within top 100 to top 2 trying to move up.

    Went off topic but current ranking is pointless. What is important now is to get your team to rank well in coalition events.
  • DBJones
    DBJones Posts: 803 Critical Contributor
    An important detail: No events give progression rares in bronze or silver tier anyway, only for top scorers. I don't know about gold.

    Also, they called the Immortal Sun a special event reward rather than an exclusive, so it might be different than the exclusive event rewards used to be. Doesn't seem likely to me, but it could certainly be interesting.
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    khurram said:
    I think the more suitable solution would be to remove the mythic prizes once and for all. They did it once. Players rioted. But things did settle after a while.

    But if Oktagon wants to give out mythics, the only way I see that players would not rage as much about other people winning a mythic is if it were an individual prize, instead of a coalition one, in an RTO or HoD style PvP event and only the top 5 ranks got it. That I think people can stomach without screaming injustice.


    I would agree with this only if it were the same for all tiers. IE top 50 in each bracket of each tier got it. And brackets should not be 3000. 
  • Indymon
    Indymon Posts: 35 Just Dropped In
    +1 to the idea of rares or mythics being top progression reward. Make it close to a perfect score required if necessary. But for anyone other than spenders, it can take forever to crack a mythic or accumulate the orbs needed to craft one. It’s a slog. 
  • ElfNeedsFood
    ElfNeedsFood Posts: 944 Critical Contributor
    If the event card is anything like the power of RE, this is a bad thing. If it’s more like Thopter Spy Network or Some Disassembly Required, which are useful in some specific quirky situations but not really too powerful, then I don’t see harm in it, although I’m not in a top 10 coalition so won’t get the card. 
  • khurram
    khurram Posts: 1,090 Chairperson of the Boards
    bken1234 said:
    khurram said:
    I think the more suitable solution would be to remove the mythic prizes once and for all. They did it once. Players rioted. But things did settle after a while.

    But if Oktagon wants to give out mythics, the only way I see that players would not rage as much about other people winning a mythic is if it were an individual prize, instead of a coalition one, in an RTO or HoD style PvP event and only the top 5 ranks got it. That I think people can stomach without screaming injustice.


    I would agree with this only if it were the same for all tiers. IE top 50 in each bracket of each tier got it. And brackets should not be 3000. 
    I disagree. Competition in platinum is very cutthroat for such events. Even a single point can make all the difference. You only have to look at disparity in top scores for lower brackets to know that players don't have to pay that steep a price for mistakes over there. So no, its definitely not the same as platinum and neither should be the prize distribution. Why should someone who played way poorly than a more competitive player get the same reward. I would even suggest top 2 for bronze and silver but absolutely no more than top 5, top 5 in gold and platinum but no more than top 25. (i know, how very toxic)

    You yourself may not care much for placing top but there are players who do and they bust their **** for it. And i believe in working hard for those prizes. I tried but did not win dynavolt, aetherwoks, and planar bridge but I did not sulk around begrudging those who did win like they had done some crime against me. Championing for little guys is one thing but I don't understand this mentality of making it a free for all lately.

    I think it's important to keep competition alive in the game and have appropriate level of incentives and rewards across different tiers, accordingly. 
  • Bullvinne
    Bullvinne Posts: 77 Match Maker
    As a newer player, those HOU progression Rares have helped me get a lot more competitive. I got a few good cycling staples like Drake Haven from those rewards, not from packs. So I definitely say keep the progression rares. 

    As for the free mythic for top 10 players, newer players are already waaaaaaaay behind in card collection that we will likely never catch up to players that have been around for a long time. So another free mythic will likely not make it any harder for newer players. To really help that issue, giving easier access to older cards would be a step in the right direction. Booster crafting helps, but takes forever for a new player to get enough orbs to get a single mythic, it is itself another grind.
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    The pink crystals are the replacements for "elite exclusive cards" and they should be used here.

    Make it a once off buy purple reward that costs a specific amount of purple crystals, the top players can buy it straight away from their winnings, everyone else can work up to it over a number of events.

    The people that fight the most to prove themselves, if the reward to their ego isn't enough don't feed them with prizes as well. Make exclusive _cosmetic_ things for them, not stuff that will help them stay on top of the mountain, if they need help then they don't deserve to stay there and if they don't then they don't, either way, no special things, not ever. Their normal rewards are enough.

    It's the newcomers that need the encouragement. Have a progression reward for it that people can work on over multiple copies of the event. So you can earn it with a middling score 3 or 4 events in a row. That people that struggle but persevere, they are the ones that deserve encouragement and help and high fives.




  • tfg76
    tfg76 Posts: 258 Mover and Shaker
    While I don't disagree with what's said here, I must say I wish they'd just rally around giving out Orbs as prizes. With booster crafting they now has this nice system that can benefit both starting players (who can use the orbs quickly to get rares) and experienced players (who will win some more Orbs, but need to save for those elusive mythics).
  • Bil
    Bil Posts: 831 Critical Contributor
        If there must be a mythic reward, then it makes more sense to give it as an individual reward ...         The top coalition rewards are already significantly better and there's no reason a player ranking top 5 doesnt get the "elite" reward while another one ranking top 25 gets it because he is in a top 10 coalition.
        Besides, from an event to another, there is almost no rotation in top coalition leaderboard while there is more rotation in the top players leaderboard.
        Anyways, for the sake of the game, the disappearing of the rare card reward is definitely more problematic than the "unwise" distribution of a mythic card and this point should at least be taken in account.
  • miss_zoey
    miss_zoey Posts: 17 Just Dropped In
    Well, as a player near the top of the game, there doesn't seem to be any point arguing my case at all. There are a huge number of players in the game, and only a tiny percentage of them will come top, and so If you ask everyone whether the top players should get worthwhile prizes, an enormous number people players will feel free to say 'no' merely because the decision will never affect them... perhaps even for more negative reasons.


    I could say something constructive like this:
    'If card balance wasn't so hugely out of whack, it might not matter so much that the top players get prizes'
    or like this:
    'Shouldn't more of an effort be made to ensure that low level players don't directly compete with high level players? Isn't the whole card mastery system a bit unfit for purpose?'


    But what's the point? Do what you have to do. Plenty of other games with prizes that I can play.
  • khurram
    khurram Posts: 1,090 Chairperson of the Boards
    Kinesia said:

    The people that fight the most to prove themselves, if the reward to their ego isn't enough don't feed them with prizes as well. Make exclusive _cosmetic_ things for them, not stuff that will help them stay on top of the mountain, if they need help then they don't deserve to stay there and if they don't then they don't, either way, no special things, not ever. Their normal rewards are enough.

    Oh wow, where do you keep getting all that negativity from. I mean-- ego? They don't deserve to stay there? 

    Just to be certain that I am not getting it wrong. You are asking the devs to basically say "screw you" to the most dedicated segment of their player base who have stood by the game through all this time through all the hiccups, simply because you feel like you can't catch up to those players?

    Encourage the newcomers by all means. But people need to stop trying to make players feel guilty about doing better than someone who started playing yesterday.
  • BruceJuicy
    BruceJuicy Posts: 5 Just Dropped In
    Great idea. I would love to see the rewards spread out. 

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