Trial of the Planes - We Deserve Refund

gogol666
gogol666 Posts: 316 Mover and Shaker
edited March 2018 in MtGPQ General Discussion
Dear forum users,

You might have bought the TotP entrance on Monday and Tuesday for 60 crystals and, once you entered, you noticed that instead of the 3 charges per node reported in the event description, you only got 2 charges per node.
I filed a ticket for each of the occurrences to ask for a refund/compensation. My argument is: I have been sold something different from what I bought and I deserve a compensation.

Every time, I answered back that I was complaining about a bug, but I was complaining about a product bought that didn't conform to it's description and I wanted a refund for that.
I know I'm insisting on something worth almost nothing, but it has become a matter of principles: If you sell something different from its description you owe your customers a refund.
Thus this post is to let the forum aware about the company policy about owed refunds. 
I would appreciate a public answer from @Brigby @Oktagon_Daiane here.
Thanks for listening

//Removed References to Support Discussion and Edited Title -Brigby
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Comments

  • Phillmoore
    Phillmoore Posts: 207 Tile Toppler
    Agreed.  I also was sold something different to the description and would like a refund.  Not because it was expensive. But because of the basic principle.  

    If I had bought this in a shop I would be owed a refund under the trades description act.  I see no difference here.  And the law dictates I am entitled to that refund. Even if you provide a different solution which I have the choice to accept or decline it doesn’t alter my basic rights to a refund

    i also would be interested in a response to this query and obviously a refund! 
  • khurram
    khurram Posts: 1,090 Chairperson of the Boards
    Are you guys playing the free TotPs? Those are free as a compensation. Thats pretty reasonable of them (considering the history of such issues in the game). If you entered the first one for 60 crystals and lost due to the charges you should be able to get your crystals worth by now. But that seems like an unacceptable solution.

    As a matter of principles you should absolutely definitely boycott it by not entering or playing it at all and wait for your refund of 60 crystals instead. I am sure they'll come through eventually.
  • James13
    James13 Posts: 665 Critical Contributor
    It is worth noting that this is consistent with the ORIGINAL implementation of the ToTP event.  It ran exactly like this where you had 2 charges per node, 60 crystal buy in, and needed to win every match you could to reach final progression.

    At some point later it was changed to 3 and was that way for a longer period of time.
  • gogol666
    gogol666 Posts: 316 Mover and Shaker
    I understand all your positions and I already said it is not about mana crystals. The rant is about describing a purchase as x and giving y where y is smaller than x. Even though the future purchases are fixed for everyone, the players that bought x still got y, instead.
    Thus, even though the compensation is large it is meant to correct the general problem not to refund those who bought the product described erroneously.
    On a similar topic other people bought mythics for real money and got bugged cards and 40 purple as rewards.
    As per the definition of fraud: "wrongful deception intended to result in financial gain"
    I don't find this offensive or incorrect, and I'm sorry if anyone got offended by my post.
  • Froggy
    Froggy Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
    I don’t think anyone is offended. I just don’t think it is smart to put ticket and customer support related matters in a thread - seeing that it is completely against forum rules. I feel your pain and/or frustration. Believe me - I think we’ve all been there. It’s just not the right place to put that. 
  • hawkyh1
    hawkyh1 Posts: 780 Critical Contributor
    edited March 2018
    the reality is probably closer to someone forgot to make
    changes to the event description to reflect the fact that it
    only contains 2 charges per node now. it's a bit strong to
    say intention to deceive for financial gain. it's not like
    players would not notice? I'm thinking asking for your
    own personal account to be refunded should be kept
    between you and support. I can see how some would
    accept that the free totp events would be acceptable
    compensation. on principle they are given the free totp's
    because they are in the right. they can also accept that
    mistakes are made.

    HH
  • gogol666
    gogol666 Posts: 316 Mover and Shaker
    Players cannot notice before buying as they cannot notice huatli is still bugged before buying her. In any case I know I can insist as much as I want but if the policy is no refund I'm just wasting my time. And yet I feel we should deserve a more transparent behavior, after all we should be kept happy and busy shouldn't we?
  • Corn_Noodles
    Corn_Noodles Posts: 477 Mover and Shaker
    Take up your issues with Apple and Google and get refunds where appropriate.
  • NinjaE
    NinjaE Posts: 213 Tile Toppler
    Fraud is a really strong word to use, and if you feel it is really appropriate, you should be spending your time elsewhere - I would, if I thought that were the case. As it is, I feel it was probably just yet another in a long string of recent errors, and by that, I mean not deliberate.
  • Bil
    Bil Posts: 831 Critical Contributor
    edited March 2018
    James13 said:
    It is worth noting that this is consistent with the ORIGINAL implementation of the ToTP event.  It ran exactly like this where you had 2 charges per node, 60 crystal buy in, and needed to win every match you could to reach final progression.

    At some point later it was changed to 3 and was that way for a longer period of time.
    There is still a diference... Even if you're absolutely right about the charges ... 
         First of all, when, totp was released with 2 charges per node there was no booster crafting and very less gamebreaking cards like omni/huf/red hour and so on ... you would (almost) never have faced decks as brutal as the ones you might face now.
         Second point ... There were the times when greg was still dumb as hell ... The new greg under steroids and node bonuses is way harder to deal with.
         I honestly think a 2 charges per node totp now is way more problematic than before (and even before, they added the 3rd charge because enrage and legendary were already quite a mess to deal with)
         I just tried totp with a solid imminent doom deck and ... Well ... The legendary node is a bit ridiculous honestly ... 
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm not sure I understand what the issue is here.  Are you against the added challenge of the reduced battles, or are you asking for a refund because you would not have entered the event knowing it was more difficult?

    I've always believed that the final progression reward in Trials should be for a perfect score anyway, so I don't think the fact that they changed it is really that big of an issue. 

    Events do not exist to give you free stuff, they exist to give you a reason to play (and reward you for playing).  The Trials event was created to be an extra challenge and for players to convert their crystals into Jewels.  Not to give free currency and cards to players.

    If your issue is about the incorrect description, my only question is did you pay to join a second time and then ask for compensation again?  I've heard of some people doing that, and that is just wrong.  Otherwise I don't disagree that you should get your 30 crystals back (if you didn't complete progression of course), but I don't see why you had to put this here
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2018
    This seems extreme.  I understand the frustration and *justified* desire for ranting about it (there maybe another thread ideal for this) but accusations of Fraud are excessive unless you actually plan to take D3 to court over this (in which you would only have grounds for this if you actually spent real money directly on the event, aka direct crystal purchase with cash immediately prior to starting this event).  This would also (in my opinion) be excessive, and from the moderate amount legal knowledge I do have, I would not gamble on your winning odds if you did take this to court.
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    Kinesia said:
    As said by gogol and philmore, this is actually against the trade practises act and is _illegal_ in various companies they operate in. They are dealing with it now, but we are not out of line for pushing the company to actually comply with the law. And if they try to censure us for doing so that is actually illegal too. 

    This has nothing to do with crystals. This is about us wanting the game to be around longterm and to do that the company has to actually understand and adjust to the worldwide environment it is in, it needs to be nicer to both customers and staff and actually think about long term consequences of short term decisions.

    We want the company to get better overall. We (I at least) don't care about this one specific problem, it's just that in this case the lines are very very clear legally and we can draw them in a way we can't at other times. To me this is totally about fixing things for the future though, it's not about this 1 event in any way.

    that's fair I guess.  I'm on board with supporting positive change :)
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    And it's very very possible that we know local laws they aren't aware of but they are still meant to comply with.
  • gogol666
    gogol666 Posts: 316 Mover and Shaker
    edited March 2018
    Hi everybody,

    thanks for your thoughts, which I respect in all their form. The only thing I still like to have is an answer from d3 or oktagon to this question:
    If we buy something and what we got does not conform to the description of what we bought, are we entitled for a refund?

    Thanks for your kind answer
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    Kinesia said:
    As said by gogol and philmore, this is actually against the trade practises act and is _illegal_ in various companies they operate in. They are dealing with it now, but we are not out of line for pushing the company to actually comply with the law. And if they try to censure us for doing so that is actually illegal too. 

    This has nothing to do with crystals. This is about us wanting the game to be around longterm and to do that the company has to actually understand and adjust to the worldwide environment it is in, it needs to be nicer to both customers and staff and actually think about long term consequences of short term decisions.

    We want the company to get better overall. We (I at least) don't care about this one specific problem, it's just that in this case the lines are very very clear legally and we can draw them in a way we can't at other times. To me this is totally about fixing things for the future though, it's not about this 1 event in any way.


    it is illegal if there was a financial transaction. Since this game is basically F2P and the crystals in questions are given to you and technically have no monetary value. There really is no law broken unless you can prove beyond a doubt that the crystals you used for the event were paid for.
  • Bil
    Bil Posts: 831 Critical Contributor
    edited March 2018
       I really understand the point of view of the players who felt tricked by the 2 charges per node, but this thread might look out of proportions in some ways. 
      Lets not forget that a commercial gesture has been done to compensate the loss (totp was free for the rest of the week so players could save the crystals they couldnt get as the final reward in the first place).
       Besides, asking for a refund after opening the HOD pack, receiving some purples and gain access to free totps might be a bit exagerated.
     
       Some might argue that every player could enter for free ... so thats no compensation.
        A lot of players once lost their chance to compete in one of the most rewarding events of all times because of a bug (christmas enhanced HOD) while others could get the 1st rank rewards without any effort as the hard node was frozen.        The max loss for unfortunates players reached 450 purples, 300 crystals plus some boosters as they couldnt even get the progression reward.
         As a compensation, each player received 100 crystals ... Even the ones that took advantage of the bug. I don't see any diference here.

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