Tishana, Voice of Thunder

Kinesia

Except "Best card in the game" isn't the ever-escalating title of the paid exclusive (though it has seemed to be sometimes).

People spend money for other reasons too, like to buy a cat lord that they'll only actually play seriously _twice_ but they really really wanted it...

Gunmix25

I think @bken1234 is about spot on in her assessment as it soon being one of the best mythics in the game. Here's why...

The stance about how easy it would be to remove said creature applies to all of the biggest Mythics, with the exception of Gaea's Revenge for obvious reasons, is not a valid argument seeing that just about 95% of the creatures in this game suffer that same problem regardless of how expensive or cheap. If feeling like you wasted a ton of mana and time trying to cast a large creature, then why would anyone bother playing Piggy, Skysovereign or Samut? But they do, the risk is part of the game and sometimes it doesn't play out, in other times it does.

Let's look at the high power/toughness Mythic creatures that are available now. For the sake of argument I am choosing creatures that deal 10 damage or greater

Gaea's Revenge, @ 23 mana you get a 16/9 with Haste and Hexproof. Costs 7 more mana than Tishana, needs a fair number of turns without ramp to play. If inserted with green decks can be out almost by round 3 or 4. Cannot be "easily removed" once cast." But there are a fair number of existing supports that can do exactly just that. Regardless, this is one of the strongest cards in its class in the game. Standard and Legacy.

Emrakhul, @ 20 mana you get a 13/13 flyer with trample and every card in your opponent's hand gains a temporary 13 mana cost increase till the beginning of your next turn upon ETB. Costs 4 more mana than Tishana, still needs a fair number of turns without ramp to play.  If inserted with green decks they can be out almost by round 2 or 3. Not to mention it can be "easily removed" once cast." Hands down one of the best creatures in the game for the cost.  Legacy builds only.

Decimator of the Provinces, @ 21 mana you get a 12/12 with the ability to give +4/+4, Haste and Berserk to your other creatures. Costs 5 more mana than Tishana, still needs a fair number of turns without ramp to play. If inserted with green decks can be out almost by round 3 or 4. In terms of damage output upon ETB, this is easily one of the largest and most deadly creatures in the game. Not to mention it can be "easily removed" once cast." Legacy builds only

Samut, @ 24 mana you get a 7/8 with Double Strike (potentially a 14/8)  that that gives haste to all creatures you control and can provide double strike when exerted, increasing the damage dealt overall. Costs 8 more mana than Tishana, needs a fair number of turns without ramp to play. If inserted with green ramp decks can be out almost by round 3 or 4. Not to mention it can be "easily removed" once cast." Standard and Legacy.

Skysovereign, @ 25 mana you get a 12/12 with flight and deals 5 damage to opponent's creature when ETB. costs 9 more mana than tishana, and needs a fair number of turns without ramp, especially if casting creatures, which exponentially raises the cost despite a crew 3.  If inserted with green ramp decks can be out almost  by round 3 or 4. Effective If used with Saheeli, her 3rd loyalty is closely tied to this card. Not to mention it can be "easily removed" once cast." Standard and legacy builds.

Heart of Kiran, @ 25 mana you get a 12/12 with flight and costs 9 more mana than tishana, and needs a fair number of turns without ramp, especially if casting creatures, which exponentially raises the cost despite a crew 4.  If inserted with green ramp decks can be out almost  by round 3 or 4. Effective If used with Saheeli, her 3rd loyalty is closely tied to this card. Not to mention it can be "easily removed" once cast." Vigilance likely ensures an early death regardless. Standard and legacy builds.

Metalwork Colossus, @ 14 mana you get a 12/12 with defend and has the ability to be cast sooner if you are playing out supports earlier on. Can be returned to your hand by auto-sacrificing two supports when it dies. Cost 2 less than Tishana. But with Defender this creature isn't expected to live long. One advantage is that its cheaper cost allows for reinforcing easily.  If inserted with green decks they can be out almost by round 1 or 2. Not to mention it can be "easily removed" once cast. Standard and Legacy.

(rare, Honorable mention) Desolation Twins, @ 21 mana you get a 10/10 creature and another 10/10 creature that doesn't stack. Costs 5 more mana than Tishana, still needs a fair number of turns without ramp to play.  If inserted with green decks they can be out almost by round 3 or 4. Not to mention it can be "easily removed" once cast;" if the opponent has more than one removal in hand. The latter is what makes this creature so good, the need for more removal to shut it down before it deals too much damage. Legacy builds only.

Ulamog, @ 21 mana you get a 10/10 with the ability to convert your opponent's primary colors to void gems. Costs 5 more mana than Tishana, still needs a fair number of turns without ramp to play. If inserted with green decks can be out almost by round 3 or 4. Not to mention it can be "easily removed" once cast." Legacy builds only

Void Winnower, @ 25 mana you get an 11/9 that lets you receive 3 mana for every match your opponent makes. Its unique ability of switching opponent's defenders or vigilance  creatures with one that doesn't or creates one when there aren't any to be had ensures a short life. Costs 9 more mana than tishana, needs a fair number of turns without ramp to play. If inserted with green ramp decks can be out almost by round 3 or 4. Not to mention it can be "easily removed" once cast." Legacy builds only

Gishath, @ 26 mana you get a 10/10 with trample, vigilance, and berserk. When it attacks the first dinosaur other than itself gains full mana in your hand.  costs 10 more mana than tishana, needs a fair number of turns without ramp. If inserted with green ramp decks can be out almost  by round 3 or 4. Not to mention it can be "easily removed" once cast" and with vigilance and berserk it's not expected to live long. Presently only available as a purchased exclusive. Standard and legacy builds.

Kozilek, @ 28 mana you get a 12/12 with menace that draws 6 cards upon ETB and 2 additional abilities. Costs 12 more mana than tishana, needs a fair number of turns without ramp to play. If inserted with green ramp decks can be out almost by round 3 or 4. Not to mention it can be "easily removed" once cast." Legacy builds only

Avatar of Woe, @ 30 mana you get a 12/12 basic creature. Only plus is that it gains 6 mana for each creature death. Not to mention it can be "easily removed" once cast." Legacy builds only. One of the worst of the large creatures due to poor casting speed. You're often likely dead before it is cast.

Tishana, @ 16 mana you can get a minimum of 4/4 if you cast with nothing in hand. If you cast with 4 cards in hand (easily achieved by turn 2) you can get a 13/13 creature due to extra draw. The cost of the this card for the amount of potential power/toughness upon reinforcement (when it gets fixed) plus three card draw is insane. If used in conjunction with Menagerie and followed up with Rishkar's Expertise or any ramp in Green... just 4 Tishanas will give you a potential 52/52 creature after effects finish. If using seasons past with HUF and Reason (to believe) the loop effect will likely provide for a huge Tishana when effects are finished. And yes, she too can be easily removed just like everything else. Lol

While yes, Tishana alone is somewhat mild, but compared to the examples above.  The cost, draw and the intended theme of reinforcement that Ixalan follows... This card is going to be a sleeper hit once players figure out how big this dude can get with the right cards to rapidly reinforce it. 

Peace all -

Gunny

Mainloop25

I agree @Gunmix25, it's gonna be a heavy hitter in Kiora loop decks. People are either are looking at this card in a vacuum and not thinking enough about the potential  or just don't have the cards to take advantage of it. I'll admit though, I didn't really see it at first either.

Matthew

I think what you guys are overlooking is the fact that "loop decks" seem to be on their way out. The two worst offenders for keeping them going (Baral and Rashmi) aren't going to be around in Standard for very much longer. Given the fact that Oktagon seems to be more reserved in the overall power curve of their card design, I doubt we'll see another enabler like those two any time soon, if at all.

Loops will still be possible, sure. But they won't be as absurdly broken (conceptually speaking) in the Standard environment as they are right now.

Gunmix25

Matthew said:

I think what you guys are overlooking is the fact that "loop decks" seem to be on their way out. The two worst offenders for keeping them going (Baral and Rashmi) aren't going to be around in Standard for very much longer. Given the fact that Oktagon seems to be more reserved in the overall power curve of their card design, I doubt we'll see another enabler like those two any time soon, if at all.

Loops will still be possible, sure. But they won't be as absurdly broken (conceptually speaking) in the Standard environment as they are right now.

I'm not entirely sure if this is directed at my post or not. But yes, looping days are numbered. Tishana doesn't need a loop to be good. It does make her insanely big faster but not needed. It's drawing and casting that this card is built around. The lower cost allows for ease of reinforcement and the built in draw encourages a better chance of additional copies being drawn. Seriously, who doesn't love a 13/13 creature that costs less than average turn and a half less of swapping gems for similarly powered creatures. (Not including abilities  here)

Mburn7

Matthew said:

I think what you guys are overlooking is the fact that "loop decks" seem to be on their way out. The two worst offenders for keeping them going (Baral and Rashmi) aren't going to be around in Standard for very much longer. Given the fact that Oktagon seems to be more reserved in the overall power curve of their card design, I doubt we'll see another enabler like those two any time soon, if at all.

I would argue that Tishana is that enabler, although not quite as good.combo her with a couple other draw spells and you can still get a loop going pretty well.  Yes, Baral and Rashimi are better, but loop decks aren't going anywhere any time soon

Mainloop25

I agree that loop decks aren't going anywhere soon either. Baral and Rashmi might be on their way out  but New Perspectives/Deserts/Pull from Tomorrow aren't. 

wereotter

Mainloop25 said:

I agree @Gunmix25, it's gonna be a heavy hitter in Kiora loop decks. People are either are looking at this card in a vacuum and not thinking enough about the potential  or just don't have the cards to take advantage of it. I'll admit though, I didn't really see it at first either.

Sure, that's an obvious place to put her, but also looking outside the box, they provides a large, cheap creature to blue. Blue doesn't have this. Also she gives reliable card draw to green decks. So putting her into Sammut, for example, would be a good method of just refilling your hand.

Mainloop25

Oh sure, that's one I saw too but it seemed even more obvious than the looping potential. If I ever get her, she would easily go into my Samut or AJ2. 

Gunmix25

wereotter said:

Mainloop25 said:

I agree @Gunmix25, it's gonna be a heavy hitter in Kiora loop decks. People are either are looking at this card in a vacuum and not thinking enough about the potential  or just don't have the cards to take advantage of it. I'll admit though, I didn't really see it at first either.

Sure, that's an obvious place to put her, but also looking outside the box, they provides a large, cheap creature to blue. Blue doesn't have this. Also she gives reliable card draw to green decks. So putting her into Sammut, for example, would be a good method of just refilling your hand.

Bingo. Blue doesn't at all. They have powerful creatures reliant on abilities. But not sheer power and toughness. Her being this cheap should be viewed as part of her ability in a sense.The extra draw keeps to U & G theme too. 

Mainloop25 said:

Oh sure, that's one I saw too but it seemed even more obvious than the looping potential. If I ever get her, she would easily go into my Samut or AJ2. 

I got her last night. Despite the bug that needs to be fixed, I was able to easily get her on the board 4 times (1+3 reinforcements) before a loop ended on average with Samut. I did manage to get as high as 7 reinforcements right before an attack... (I already had 2 down from the turn prior) meaning a possible 9x13 = 117/117 post bug fix. Most matches had Tishana at 5 to 6 reinforcements before the match ended. Only because I had to insert creatures to account for the bug in order to win.  A few things I would certainly add to my build is trample or afflict if using other than Samut as a PW. 

Despite how good she could be, the bug issue needs to be resolved so she can be harnessed to her fullest potential 

Gunmix25

With RIX coming out soon I wonder if KLD/AER will go to Legacy? That should limit a fair number of looping builds to legacy.

Gunmix25

Here is a shot of 5 reinforcements via loop using HUF in the turn before this. There were 2 existing copies prior that. If not for the bug,  the match would have ended last round with a 91/87 creature.

***note: getting this to pic to post was a pain in the tinykitty. smh.

wereotter

Gunmix25 said:

With RIX coming out soon I wonder if KLD/AER will go to Legacy? That should limit a fair number of looping builds to legacy.

Depends on if they chose to follow the rotation that paper magic uses. If they do follow that same rotation, then Kaladesh won't rotate out until the set following the core set, at which point both it and the two Amonkhet sets will rotate out together.

Honestly this is information they really should be relaying to us, and despite us asking what the rotation cycle for the game is in more than one Q&A post, they never tell us. I feel like I, as a player, should be able to know if attempting to open packs or craft cards from a certain set is to my disadvantage.

Gunmix25

wereotter said:

Gunmix25 said:

With RIX coming out soon I wonder if KLD/AER will go to Legacy? That should limit a fair number of looping builds to legacy.

Depends on if they chose to follow the rotation that paper magic uses. If they do follow that same rotation, then Kaladesh won't rotate out until the set following the core set, at which point both it and the two Amonkhet sets will rotate out together.

Honestly this is information they really should be relaying to us, and despite us asking what the rotation cycle for the game is in more than one Q&A post, they never tell us. I feel like I, as a player, should be able to know if attempting to open packs or craft cards from a certain set is to my disadvantage.

I was just informed earlier about the first paragraph. When the set due for release in sept for paper, KLD/AER & AMK/HOU will rotate out at the same time. Which actually makes sense when you think about it. By the time they rotate out, Ixalan, Rivals, Dominaria and "Spaghetti" will be the new standard alongside Origins. 5 sets seems plenty imho.

Mburn7

Gunmix25 said:

wereotter said:

Gunmix25 said:

With RIX coming out soon I wonder if KLD/AER will go to Legacy? That should limit a fair number of looping builds to legacy.

Depends on if they chose to follow the rotation that paper magic uses. If they do follow that same rotation, then Kaladesh won't rotate out until the set following the core set, at which point both it and the two Amonkhet sets will rotate out together.

Honestly this is information they really should be relaying to us, and despite us asking what the rotation cycle for the game is in more than one Q&A post, they never tell us. I feel like I, as a player, should be able to know if attempting to open packs or craft cards from a certain set is to my disadvantage.

I was just informed earlier about the first paragraph. When the set due for release in sept for paper, KLD/AER & AMK/HOU will rotate out at the same time. Which actually makes sense when you think about it. By the time they rotate out, Ixalan, Rivals, Dominaria and "Spaghetti" will be the new standard alongside Origins. 5 sets seems plenty imho.

I'm pretty positive they already announced that the Kaladesh block would rotate out when Rivals is released.
@bken1234 was bugging them a lot about this, she'd remember better.

But yeah, I'm pretty sure Rivals is the end of Kaladesh and Aether Revolt.  The reign of Baral and his Boomship will finally be at its end