Ixalan Review

Mburn7

Kyphonis said:

Mavren Fein may be slow but I’ve had no problem grinding with him. Slower speed just means prepare for a grindier match. A bit annoying but workable.

What tier are you in?  In platinum every deck has at least 1 creature removal, with black running a couple and blue having control.  I can never seem to keep a creature out more than a few turns.  Matches become a grind because both players are only chipping away at each other's health for a few turns before the next wipe gets charged, not because there isn't any removal

Kyphonis

I’m in platinum, but if I don’t do a combo/ramp/super aggro strat I prep for the grind. It helps I’ve learned patience by being a heavy blue player for years in paper lol. I actually make control decks in this game quite often so I’m used to slower games or holding back a few cards to burst out in a turn. That’s been fun with Nahiri/AJ1 vamps and the Hazoret’s Fury support.

Aeroplane

Merfolk would benefit greatly from another creature slot on the board as more merfolk the better, however, blue has one of the best cards in River's rebuke.
Pirates seem like a jack of all trades spread out over 3 colors. I like the discard support after trying it with Liliana and other discard cards from other sets. Demonic pact is a nice combo. Hostage Taker will be annoying if you don't have the money for Brass.
Dinosaurs... Enrage is hard to activate(dinosaurs should have higher toughness in this case) , Mythic dinosaurs are under powered except for the tricolor and destroy all creatures dino, and the give double strike dino only really works if you summon him first. I like rampaging ferocidon as its quite unique and it goes well with axis of mortality.
Vampires card pool increased even more with the life link/reinforce theme but nothing groundbreaking.
As above not enough explore cards.
Countdown supports are depressing.
I like the events with the supports but those objectives....
Favorite card is dowsing dagger as its like Masterpiece Chrome mox with a present plant dude. Steal it back, have only flyers , destroy cards. With turn to frog, Imprisoned in the moon, and plant dude fills up the AI summoning slots and you just attack with flyers.

ElfNeedsFood

I think the Vampires and Mavren especially could be fixed if the reinforced mechanic counted the base Vampire as well.  It seems some cards do count the base and others count only additional to the base. 

DumasAG

Seems like a support with an effect similar to, "If a reinforced creature you control would be destroyed, instead remove one reinforcement," existed, Vampires might receive an interesting sticky power boost that also helps their synergy. Would be a bit like undergrowth champion.

babar3355

wereotter said

The easiest way to play Mavren Fein is to also play a common card, Legion Conquistador, and then an uncommon, Queen's Commission. Once you can start casting Legion Conquistadors every turn or every other turn, you can build up a nice army of life linking vampire tokens. The problem really only comes from not drawing Mavren, or if he gets removed before you can get your combo online.

I think the lack of creature slots more than anything is hurting vampires. They were kind of the swarm mechanic tribe from Ixalan, and cards that care about how many times they've been reinforced was a good attempt at making that matter, but does fall a little flat once you consider how much work it is to actually accomplish it. Especially when some cards need you to reinforce the creature two or three times before it has an effect. It's simply too easy to remove the creature before they get that far.

That's exactly what I did.. and it is really weak.

And yes, its possible to win.  But a deck that "can" win is not necessarily strong. It's slow, clunky, and susceptible to losing because it has some serious holes caused by too many cards required to get set up.

wereotter

babar3355 said:

wereotter said

The easiest way to play Mavren Fein is to also play a common card, Legion Conquistador, and then an uncommon, Queen's Commission. Once you can start casting Legion Conquistadors every turn or every other turn, you can build up a nice army of life linking vampire tokens. The problem really only comes from not drawing Mavren, or if he gets removed before you can get your combo online.

I think the lack of creature slots more than anything is hurting vampires. They were kind of the swarm mechanic tribe from Ixalan, and cards that care about how many times they've been reinforced was a good attempt at making that matter, but does fall a little flat once you consider how much work it is to actually accomplish it. Especially when some cards need you to reinforce the creature two or three times before it has an effect. It's simply too easy to remove the creature before they get that far.

That's exactly what I did.. and it is really weak.

And yes, its possible to win.  But a deck that "can" win is not necessarily strong. It's slow, clunky, and susceptible to losing because it has some serious holes caused by too many cards required to get set up.

That's how combo decks do.

Vampires are definitely combo heavy and need you to reach critical mass before it becomes powerful. Not for everyone, but I still welcome the addition of strategies that are just for Timmys or Spikes.

gogol666

wereotter said:

babar3355 said:

wereotter said

The easiest way to play Mavren Fein is to also play a common card, Legion Conquistador, and then an uncommon, Queen's Commission. Once you can start casting Legion Conquistadors every turn or every other turn, you can build up a nice army of life linking vampire tokens. The problem really only comes from not drawing Mavren, or if he gets removed before you can get your combo online.

I think the lack of creature slots more than anything is hurting vampires. They were kind of the swarm mechanic tribe from Ixalan, and cards that care about how many times they've been reinforced was a good attempt at making that matter, but does fall a little flat once you consider how much work it is to actually accomplish it. Especially when some cards need you to reinforce the creature two or three times before it has an effect. It's simply too easy to remove the creature before they get that far.

That's exactly what I did.. and it is really weak.

And yes, its possible to win.  But a deck that "can" win is not necessarily strong. It's slow, clunky, and susceptible to losing because it has some serious holes caused by too many cards required to get set up.

That's how combo decks do.

Vampires are definitely combo heavy and need you to reach critical mass before it becomes powerful. Not for everyone, but I still welcome the addition of strategies that are just for Timmys or Spikes.

But combo decks should be able to win the match on one or two turns after they comboed. If you need x turns to assemble your combo and then a other y turns to win, the deck is just bad. If, on top of that, the result of your combo can be nullified by a sweeper or a couple of removals the deck is plain unusable aside from tg fun rides.

Bil

    Hard to reach critical mass with vampires with so much removal in the game anyway .... 
    The conquistador is supposed to be the engine to reinforce but it's a trap overall. If you manage to play 3 or 4 reinforcment and it gets killed .... You know you won't see any for a lot of turns as the next one is far away in your library.
    You can't even rely on lifelink as both mavren and conquistador ain't got it ... And a 1/1 lifelink token (or even 4 or 5 if you get lucky )will hardly make any difference... 
    The price for this build-up is incredibly heavy too as your 3 slots are filled with infamously weak creatures.
    I'm pretty confident when i claim that a single glory bound initiate played for 8 mana has more power and lifelink potential than a 3 creatures board with mavren/conquistador and the few tokens you get out of them.
   

wereotter

Bil said:

    Hard to reach critical mass with vampires with so much removal in the game anyway .... 
    The conquistador is supposed to be the engine to reinforce but it's a trap overall. If you manage to play 3 or 4 reinforcment and it gets killed .... You know you won't see any for a lot of turns as the next one is far away in your library.
    You can't even rely on lifelink as both mavren and conquistador ain't got it ... And a 1/1 lifelink token (or even 4 or 5 if you get lucky )will hardly make any difference... 
    The price for this build-up is incredibly heavy too as your 3 slots are filled with infamously weak creatures.
    I'm pretty confident when i claim that a single glory bound initiate played for 8 mana has more power and lifelink potential than a 3 creatures board with mavren/conquistador and the few tokens you get out of them.
   

If you're playing the Conquistador, you should never not have one in your hand unless you throw it away or your opponent forces you to discard it. Every time you play one, it immediately replaces itself in your hand.

However Mavren is arguably too slow, and possibly could give you a token every time a non-token vampire attacks, and then give you another every time that creature is reinforced rather than not doing anything until they are. There's a similar problem with Vicious Conquistador needing to be reinforced twice before you can turn on his benefit, which I've never seen happen at all, partially because of all the removal, and partially because you can't find more of him to reinforce, so you have to rely on drawing three of them before you can reinforce it twice. Bishop of Rebirth can help in theory, but vigilance on a small body makes that card hard to use, and there's only one spell in the game that can just reinforce a creature. They needed to be more to make them work.

Bil

     You've got a point about conquistador ... I was remembering a game in which it happened to me but it might be because the hand one had been discarded before i could play it (Tutored cards generally being the last ones in your hand).
     My overall point of view remains that it is quite a setup for a fragile board with low power, low lifelink and no defense. 
    I agree on the fact that if the mavrens ability did create a token on a regular attack of a nontoken vamp it could be more reliable but as it is now it looks kinda useless.
    I hope rivals may introduce cards that could make the tribe useful ...

Gideon

I’ll share my recipe.The way sets should work is that most cards should be mediocre but have great synergy. Next put in some playable stand alones. Then splash in some awesome **** cards. Sit back and watch the compliments come in. You’re welcome. 

Mburn7

Gideon said:

I’ll share my recipe.The way sets should work is that most cards should be mediocre but have great synergy. Next put in some playable stand alones. Then splash in some awesome tinykitty cards. Sit back and watch the compliments come in. You’re welcome. 

I think the first ingredient is pretty much met by this set, although there should be a bit better synergy in vampire and merfolk (dinos and pirates are fine).  The third one is the hardest to pull off (eg.  Baral vs Deepala), and Oktagon probably did fall a little short on that.

fight4thedream

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FindingHeart8

..I'm getting a sudden marvelous feeling to this thread...

However on topic: Merfolk and Vampire do need a lot more synergy.  I'm having trouble even using them in legacy because Innistrad's vampires are...well...just so much better.

Gunmix25

wereotter said:

If you're playing the Conquistador, you should never not have one in your hand unless you throw it away or your opponent forces you to discard it. Every time you play one, it immediately replaces itself in your hand.

This effect occurs even when brought into play via Reason(to believe). Green ramp with Ajani 2 has proven to be interesting when you have an To Believe aftermath activation gem on the board. Conquistador is easily one of my favorite cheap white cards at the moment.