Patch Notes - 5/9 -- Daken changes

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

MikeyMan wrote:

D3 and IceX getting back to my good graces.

****, my evil twin is getting all the credit again...

Or are you the evil twin? Tell us something only the real IceIX would know! Skrull invasion!!!

Unknown

Wouldnt' IceIX's evil twin be IceXI?

Unknown

pandaberry6 wrote:

IceIX wrote:

MikeyMan wrote:

D3 and IceX getting back to my good graces.

****, my evil twin is getting all the credit again...

Or are you the evil twin? Tell us something only the real IceIX would know! Skrull invasion!!!

Twist, IceIX doesn't have an evil twin brother but suffers from Multiple Personality Disorder.

HairyDave

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I guess this also means that A. Wolvie is almost strictly better than 2* Daken now, so that's a thing.

You'll probably still get a lot out of him paired with someone like Ares - two green matches, four strike tiles and an Onslaught sounds pretty good to me.

Nonce Equitaur 2

It's a nerf. Let's go to the surveys. Where did I put those? Oh yeah.

Poll: Next Villains to add to the game
Poll: Next Heroes to add to the game
Poll: What character is the most fun to play?
Poll: What character is the most fun to play? (original)
Poll: Which Opponents are the least fun to fight?

In that last poll, Daken is the runaway favorite for being the least fun opponent. So he had it coming. However, as mentioned at the Daken (Dark Avengers Wolverine) page,

Fluffyudders wrote:

To counteract this nerf, they really need to introduce the third skill for THIS Daken. It simply makes no sense for Lazy Daken to have a third skill all worked out while the original Daken is left capped at level 69.

That way, he can join upper echelon of the 2* characters. In the event, some of the many opponent Dakens should get this ability now, just so we can see what he's like.

Now lets compare the Healing and Heat powers. Here's the 3* version, as it is known.

Healing & Heat - Black Passive
(PASSIVE) Daken’s healing factor allows him to recover 3% of his health every turn. If there are fewer than 9 Blue tiles, the terrible drug “Heat” kicks in, and he loses 3% of his health instead.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Heals 5% per turn. Level 3: 7 Blue tiles to avoid “Heat”. Level 4: Heals 7% per turn. Level 5: 6 Blue tiles to avoid “Heat”.

Max Level: Heals ???HP/"Heat" ??? damage

Here's the 2* version.

Healing & Heat - Black Passive
(PASSIVE) Daken’s healing factor allows him to recover 3% of his health every turn. If there are fewer than 8 Yellow tiles, the terrible drug “Heat” kicks in, and he loses 3% of his health instead.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Heals 4% per turn. Level 3: 7 Yellow tiles to avoid “Heat”. Level 4: Heals 5% per turn. Level 5: 6 Yellow tiles to avoid “Heat”.

Max Level: Heals 146HP/"Heat" 88 damage

Notice the difference? The 3* version relies on Blue tiles, while the 2* version relies on Yellow tiles. The 3* has a Blue power which converts blue tiles to green.

The 2* version should maybe convert yellow tiles to green, if he gets a third cover.

Unknown

This..sounds like what dakan should have been all along imo. The last lvl is still damage up, but it also splits it into 2 tiles who h given that falcon doesn't do a % up anymore, has very little downside going from 4-5. ...but enough of one that ppl might co consider going with a non 5 in purple build. Still best to have this @5 though of course due to his blue. Speaking if which...did ice put anywhere how that lvls up? It does a 1:2 ratio of tiles to damage to self @lvl1. Assuming 8 tiles, that still a massive damage move for only 5 blue (and converts blue to green on the board too). I assume the damage goes up as do # tiles able to be activated..otherwise its not weaker than a headbutt.

Unknown

Sorry to be a little off topic but I figured this would be the best place to find Ice. Ice, can you mosey on over to this topic? or comment here about it? http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7098 Basically why in the WORLD would you guys start to bracket people based on some sort of algorithm that makes certain brackets completely ridiculous and have others that are super easy? Keeping it time based makes it so much more fair. Please, PLEASE change it back before it gets too out of hand.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I guess this also means that A. Wolvie is almost strictly better than 2* Daken now, so that's a thing.

Yeah, finally balance restored. This change should be issued along with thorverine nerfs.

over_clocked

Konman wrote:

This is a terrible change for players that like and use Daken, but a great change for players who **** about high level PVE Daken battles.

After all the promised nerfs that have never materialized all of the character changes players have been requesting, I gotta say I am surprised by this one.

I'm surprised too, although high level PvE Daken did call for this. But players that like and use Daken aren't supposed to use him for long before they move on to better strike tile generators such as aWolvie, Punisher and Patch (Psylocke too maybe). I did run Daken for the longest time alongside oBW, but his lack of a 3rd ability, reduced health, no AP outlets make him obsolete rather than some strike tile nerfage. His strikes are free after all, you can easily have as many as 10 at a given time on the board.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I guess this also means that A. Wolvie is almost strictly better than 2* Daken now, so that's a thing.

I disagree. I still prefer Daken with Ares and OBW. Even if his strike tiles are less powerful now, they appear as you match green. For Wolvie you need 6 green first and then 3 red to generate 2 strike tiles. Also, there is the problem of using that green because Ares' green is much better imo. His health is low but he heals back almost all of the tile match damage he took if you are usually playing against 2* opponents like me. For big damage abilities you can either hide him behind Ares or just let him take it and gradually heal afterwards. There is also OBW healing. If he gets his third ability too, he will be even better.

over_clocked

KevinMark wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I guess this also means that A. Wolvie is almost strictly better than 2* Daken now, so that's a thing.

I disagree. I still prefer Daken with Ares and OBW. Even if his strike tiles are less powerful now, they appear as you match green. For Wolvie you need 6 green first and then 3 red to generate 2 strike tiles. Also, there is the problem of using that green because Ares' green is much better imo. His health is low but he heals back almost all of the tile match damage he took if you are usually playing against 2* opponents like me. For big damage abilities you can either hide him behind Ares or just let him take it and gradually heal afterwards. There is also OBW healing. If he gets his third ability too, he will be even better.

On his own, Daken is weaker, he has no ability damage, his health is reduced, he can even harm himself by matching yellow. Leave a healthy Daken against a nearly dead Wolverine and eventually Wolverine will Slash, while Daken sits at 30 AP of every colour.

Unknown

locked wrote:

On his own, Daken is weaker, he has no ability damage, his health is reduced, he can even harm himself by matching yellow. Leave a healthy Daken against a nearly dead Wolverine and eventually Wolverine will Slash, while Daken sits at 30 AP of every colour.

Do you leave Daken to last when you fight him?

Unknown

KevinMark wrote:

locked wrote:

On his own, Daken is weaker, he has no ability damage, his health is reduced, he can even harm himself by matching yellow. Leave a healthy Daken against a nearly dead Wolverine and eventually Wolverine will Slash, while Daken sits at 30 AP of every colour.

Do you leave Daken to last when you fight him?

I do. He's too weak to pose any challenge on his own, but his regen makes tile damage wasteful against him at the beginning of a match. I do not even bother one-shotting him because there are always scarier targets on the team. It is just so nice to casually heal or collect AP while he tries to scratch me with those little baby claws.

Unknown

KevinMark wrote:

Do you leave Daken to last when you fight him?

Almost every time. Unless there's a random power that 1-shots him and not urgent elsewhere.

Unknown

In 3* range I probably would do too but I focus on OBW first and when I get two damage abilities ready I use them both on Daken to down him in one go, so that I don't have to keep dealing with his strike tiles, healing and extra damage. I don't remember I leave him to last often. My best 3* right now is a level 64 Punisher which is not usable yet.

over_clocked

KevinMark wrote:

In 3* range I probably would do too but I focus on OBW first and when I get two damage abilities ready I use them both on Daken to down him in one go, so that I don't have to keep dealing with his strike tiles, healing and extra damage. I don't remember I leave him to last often. My best 3* right now is a level 64 Punisher which is not usable yet.

Sure, oBW should take priority over Daken, but Daken is rarely a bad choice to leave for last even for 2*s.

Unknown

So is this something to expect in the future? That whenever a higher version of a character gets released, that the lower rarity version will get nerfed?

This nerf just seems too coincidental with the Gold star release, and I can't believe the reasoning given here considering that a 3* version is going to be released, which can just as easily supplant the 2* version anywhere that Daken would be.

I'm actually very disappointed at this change, because using the same logic, you should also nerf the strength of Bullseye's tiles too. Even more so considering that you really can't destroy his shield tiles by matching them away, unlike Daken strength tiles that disappear and stay destroyed when you match them.

Personally, I always saved Daken for last because he never gave me any trouble. No activatable ability meant no surprises. IMO, this change was not needed and unwarranted.

over_clocked

PvE Daken scaled too well (2*s scale better than 3*s) and caused a lot of player complaints. More than that, devs probably realized that a scaled 2* Daken would be more powerful than a normal 3* Daken, and this is a nonbo. What would you rather choose: an extremely annoying PvP/outright dangerous PvE opponent (2* Daken) and an even more dangerous 3* variant (lazy versions are more powerful than their 2* counterparts), or a nerfed 2* Daken and a powerful, but not too powerful 3* Daken?

Unknown

If you're talking about PvP, characters who max at level 69 are just inherently not competitive with characters that max at 85. The fact that Daken 2* is somewhat competitive suggests he's probably too strong. The way to fix this would be to allow Daken 2* to reach level 85.

In PvE, Daken at level 395 can beat most combination of level 395 teams by himself prior to this nerf. Now he's likely still above average at high levels (regen alone makes him a huge pain when at high levels) but no longer a 'run for your lives' kind of character.

Unknown

locked wrote:

PvE Daken scaled too well (2*s scale better than 3*s) and caused a lot of player complaints. More than that, devs probably realized that a scaled 2* Daken would be more powerful than a normal 3* Daken, and this is a nonbo. What would you rather choose: an extremely annoying PvP/outright dangerous PvE opponent (2* Daken) and an even more dangerous 3* variant (lazy versions are more powerful than their 2* counterparts), or a nerfed 2* Daken and a powerful, but not too powerful 3* Daken?

I would choose to keep Daken in his original form. As I said, I never personally had a problem with him, and making the 3* variant more dangerous is rather appropriate, considering that that power actually gives weight and meaning to it being rated 3 star in addition to it still being online with the large burst of power given to gold stars already.

I still disagree with this change because unless they plan on actually giving 2* daken his third ability along with the release of the 3* varient, they essentially neutered a viable 2* character to use. Considering the fact that most players are stuck, whether by force or choice, with the thor/wolvie/obw at that rarity level, this change just made him even less of a prospect to be utilized.

On top of the aforementioned reasoning in my previous post, if this was really such a problem, then how come it was never changed prior to this? There was plenty of times that people had a scaled daken, or even max scaled daken, so why time it now?

I can only assume it's to push people to purchasing the theme pack to have the same level of competitiveness that they experienced with utilizing 2*, which is a horribly thinly disguised way of increasing cashflow.