Vraska unacceptable loyalty ability

Houdin

I honestly think a lot of these posts are missing the point. Yes I was a little Enflame earlier and when that happens I tend to get a little melodramatic. 

However the truth stands
Her third ability should not self destruct.
None of the supports in ixalan should self destruct.

This idea that Oktagon somehow has that this is a good thing needs to be stopped in its tracks now


It is neither health for the game or the meta to make high costed supports that are worthless up against spells. 

We already don't have instant speed responses like in paper.
We already don't have everything treated as a sorcery before it resolves.
We already don't have stack mechanics.
We have already seen cards become way to underpowered in an attempt to pull back from some overpowered sets that are still in standard. Which has made nearly every card in ixalan excepting a literal handful useless in the meta.

If they are going to move forward with designing a game with a lasting presence in the magic community than all of these mistakes need to be brought to their attention and driven home before we see another fiasco when rivals drops.

There is still time for the sub set to make the mechanic usable.... but not much

Just saying

Krishna

whats funny is that one of the most powerful supports, Dowsing Dagger (convert 6 gems to your PW color?!? thats MP level. wait till Koth drops that) doesnt lose a shield every turn.

Grixis197

With big green gem converters you easily get the loyalty you need 

Kinesia

Krishna said:

Kinesia said:

Oktagon need to look at support shields more.
There seem to be things they just don't get yet.

You set shields based on how long you want it to last and the type of deck it's going to be played in. The self-destruct is ONLY for things that completely block the game, but they've put it on NORMAL supports.

it seems like they think supports are only destroyed by support destruction, but that is NOT true, even in normal play a support loses a shield about every 2 turns.

MOST cards need to lose the self-destruct, it's something that needs to be careful added to just a few,

Couldnt agree more about supports. I was admittedly excited to try out the Ixalan supports, but they are almost unusable because they are guaranteed to be destroyed within a couple turns, what to speak of the work it takes to get them to flip in the first place. 

But... I wouldn't use Waterveil in an argument on how to build a balanced card. When that card hits the field, I know im likely force quitting soon.

Heh, valid. But it's more to do with other things than the number of shields... Did it really need to add mana to the next card since you are likely doing that anyway by how you trigger it?


Does anything need 10 shields really? In practise 5 should be enough. 3 should be regular. 1 should be for things that need to die.


Things with self-destruct need totally different rules though and it's _very_ dependant on the use case of the support, you can't generalise from Omni to everything else.

Houdin

Grixis197 said:

With big green gem converters you easily get the loyalty you need 

those big gem converters are from previous sets. using cards from those sets as a reasoning for the mana cost of an ixalan planeswalker seems to make my argument for me that the ability by itself is useless.

Kinesia

Houdin said:

Grixis197 said:

With big green gem converters you easily get the loyalty you need 

those big gem converters are from previous sets. using cards from those sets as a reasoning for the mana cost of an ixalan planeswalker seems to make my argument for me that the ability by itself is useless.

This set isn't in a vacuum and green will _usually_ have gem convertors, if they skip this set they will probably be in next. They will _never_ be absent from standard just like destroy creature in black, etc.

bk1234

Houdin said:

Grixis197 said:

With big green gem converters you easily get the loyalty you need 

those big gem converters are from previous sets. using cards from those sets as a reasoning for the mana cost of an ixalan planeswalker seems to make my argument for me that the ability by itself is useless.

I've only used her around 10 times and almost every time I've cast her third within 3 turns of her second. It creates a lot of mana and loyalty. 

However since using other sets is a concern to you, there are two Origins cards, Nissa's Pilgrimage and Animist's Awakening and TONS of ways to get loyalty with her using just Ixalan cards. 

I've made this short video to guide you in searching for these cards and give you a preview of several that would be an asset in helping you make the most of her abilities. 

https://youtu.be/W_NgZ3m73-4

These are just a couple keywords you can search -- with a little creativity, I'm sure you can find some cards I missed. 

Hope this helps @Houdin

khurram

All of you mtgpq gurus keep missing the point of OP.

Self destruct on every tinykitty support that matters, is a bad idea.
Vraska's third is not broken, to need a self destruct.

Bil

   I dont own her already but if the effect is triggering on each turn (player and opponent), it is pretty agressive. If you play a 4/4 creature it dies at the begining of your next turn... That sounds a bit nasty to me as many creatures are 4/4 or below.
   I'm generally against the self destruct mechanic abuses in ixalan and i agree on the fact that vrakas support shouldnt autodestruct but ONLY IF it did only trigger on the players turn.
    -4/-4 to each creature + 6 damage to player beetween each swap seems actually veeeery broken to me and is kind of a lockdown.
    On the other hand, if it loose 1 shield each time it triggers, it could have a few more shields to make it last a few turns ... 6 would be the least (so it destroys at the beggining of your turn)... 8 would still be alright. 4 turns of creatures "lockdown" is way enough to make it worthy.