Vraska unacceptable loyalty ability

Houdin
Houdin Posts: 182 Tile Toppler
edited February 2018 in MtGPQ General Discussion
So, in was really excited for vraska for a few reasons.

First the colour match up is something we haven't seen before. 

Second her first ability seemed to me to be very relevant after the recent changes to Greg and his now seemingly infallible ability to not only play multiple copies of lock down supports or high cost supports but also having them constantly drop in unmatchable corners.

Third her last ability. A free play cruel reality if you will.

So I bought her after rereading the blog post about her and her abilities to make sure I knew what I was getting.

Well apparently I just got taken.

Her last ability with a very high cost involved has a built in countdown timer.

What you say?

That's right build up all that mana for a support that self destructs. 

Now I will say I only had enough ruins to get her to lvl 47.  So possibly at full pop the support doesn't self destruct.
If that's the case than maybe I can understand as it's a good way to push players to lvl up their planeswalkers .

If it doesn't well then I call tinykitty.

No planeswalkers have self destructing emblems. That's just feel bad awful design.

If that had been made clear I would never have bought her. After reading the blog post about her which doesn't say anything about this and in fact extolls the virtue of her abilities I feel cheated.

I will be requesting a refund of my purchase from d3 or android if this is in fact the case.
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Comments

  • Bullvinne
    Bullvinne Posts: 77 Match Maker
    It could be a bug, I would post about it in there too. Thanks for this post, I have already bought a semi-broken Huatli and fully broken Gishath....now another possibly broken premium item is making me re-think spending money on this game in the future.
  • Froggy
    Froggy Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
    I love her loyalty abilities. Thy are really powerful if used right.

    Note: @Houdin - you may want to edit that last paragraph in your post. Just saying.
  • James13
    James13 Posts: 665 Critical Contributor
    Ajani2 ultimate was also self destructing.  Just saying since you seem to imply it's something new.
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,731 Chairperson of the Boards
    wow, I didn't even know she was out yet.  GUESS WHO IS LATE TO THE PARTY??
  • Gotcha617
    Gotcha617 Posts: 88 Match Maker
    @houdin...I’m a little confused are you complaining that her last ability is too op since it’s a “free cruel reality” or is it too weak since it’s the “only” pw who’s third ability loses shields. 

    Pick one and argue. When you argue every side ppl tend to not take you seriously. 

    Btw the pw is amazing  and all abilities are useful and always relevant.
  • Houdin
    Houdin Posts: 182 Tile Toppler
    Only if they don't understand the point if my post.
    I never made any allusion to her third ability being to op. Planeswalkers third abilities wether in pq or paper are supposed to be op. It's why they have a high cost.

    Having her third ability as a more expensive version of cruel reality that self destructs is completely against the reasoning behind planeswalkers top tier ability. 

    Her first and second abilities are far stronger by comparison because of this and that isn't how planeswalkers are supposed to be built.

    It's just a very poor design flaw in my opinion and as the poster above states it is perhaps because Oktagon does not have a firm understanding of how supports in magic work or even more so how they work in mtgpq. 
  • Abenjes
    Abenjes Posts: 253 Mover and Shaker

    I suspect that getting to her 3rd ability with the green ramp we have available is not going to be too difficult one well timed rishkarsex will get you too it. if it falls on a black gem even better.

    AJ2 ult played correctly completely locks your opponent out of the game and needs to count down,

    While Vraska's won't completely lock your opponent combine it  with either cruel reality and blight caster you have a very potent way to kill creatures and deal direct damage to your opponent.

  • Kami
    Kami Posts: 10 Just Dropped In
    Her first ability is killer, the other 2 are meh at best. 
    In that way she's simular to bolas and I don't hear complaints about him.

    What I do dislike about vraska is that she is supposed to be the pirate plainwalker.. and the only pirates that might be close to playable are all red.
  • Gilesclone
    Gilesclone Posts: 735 Critical Contributor
    edited February 2018
    This is a case of the disconnect between MtG and MTGPQ in the handling of multicolor cards/walkers.  In paper it’s easy to throw Vraska in a BR deck.
    That said, as a generic BG walker she is very playable.
  • Abenjes
    Abenjes Posts: 253 Mover and Shaker

    imagine the uproar if they had made her ult 30: target players life total becomes 1


  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    Kami said:
    Her first ability is killer, the other 2 are meh at best. 
    In that way she's simular to bolas and I don't hear complaints about him.

    What I do dislike about vraska is that she is supposed to be the pirate plainwalker.. and the only pirates that might be close to playable are all red.

    I complain about Bolas.

    The first ability being -5/-5 would be far more balanced than destroy. It's his _first_ ability and has no drawback. Ob's destroy is 2nd and at least costs life.
  • G_pretender
    G_pretender Posts: 46 Just Dropped In
    edited February 2018
    Her support shrinks ALL CREATURES the opponent controls not just the first. That's why it eventually goes away, if not it would take over the game.
    I like her, can't wait for her to hit the vault for crystals. 
    And there are some interesting agro pirates in black. 
  • Sirchombli
    Sirchombli Posts: 322 Mover and Shaker
    edited February 2018
    It does say, quite clearly loses 1 shield. In paper this would be a read-the-code issue. Since we're family friendly I suppose it's a rttkc issue. You didn't get got .You got eager. I can still understand why you're bummed, but I really don't think this is a big deal .We're ignoring all of the pros to complain about an ability that probably won't even matter . Something is probably going sideways if you need more than 5 turns to win after popping your ultimate 

    //Removed Profanity -Brigby
  • Gilesclone
    Gilesclone Posts: 735 Critical Contributor
    If you’re facing 3 10/10s it won’t save you, but against a zoo deck that’s a nasty ability.  Especially if you build around it.  And the second ability can be built for as well.
  • Stormcrow
    Stormcrow Posts: 462 Mover and Shaker
    edited February 2018
    It does seem like Oktagon has a totally different mindset as to whether PWs 3rd abilities are really "ultimates" or just, y'know, expensive.

    There are a number of other planeswalkers whose 3rd ability is an insanely powerful support (Jace 2, Ob Nix, Dovin, Koth...) but the only one whose support self-destructs is Ajani 2 since his literally locks down the game all by itself. Vraska's doesn't lock down the game as hard as Demonic Pact does, and Demonic Pact doesn't self-destruct, so I don't really see much reason for the self-destruct tbh, especially at 24 loyalty which I believe makes it one of the most expensive 3rd abilities in the game.

    That said, I'd be super-excited for a black/green planeswalker even if she had literally no abilities; the fact that her first ability is awesome and her 2nd could occasionally be useful (though it seems a little overcosted) makes her more than good enough for me.
  • Krishna
    Krishna Posts: 205 Tile Toppler
    Kinesia said:

    Oktagon need to look at support shields more.
    There seem to be things they just don't get yet.

    You set shields based on how long you want it to last and the type of deck it's going to be played in. The self-destruct is ONLY for things that completely block the game, but they've put it on NORMAL supports.

    it seems like they think supports are only destroyed by support destruction, but that is NOT true, even in normal play a support loses a shield about every 2 turns.

    MOST cards need to lose the self-destruct, it's something that needs to be careful added to just a few,
    Couldnt agree more about supports. I was admittedly excited to try out the Ixalan supports, but they are almost unusable because they are guaranteed to be destroyed within a couple turns, what to speak of the work it takes to get them to flip in the first place. 

    But... I wouldn't use Waterveil in an argument on how to build a balanced card. When that card hits the field, I know im likely force quitting soon.

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