Dear D3, Please stop repeating the same mistakes over and over and over....(SHIELD Training)

DarthDeVo

smkspy said:

DarthDeVo said:

Colognoisseur said:

Brigby said:

Hi Everyone. Apologies for the inconvenience. In the future, we will make sure that the three supporting characters in S.H.I.E.L.D. Training will be in packs when the event starts.

There is an echo in here I think. I believe we had this statement after the last two SHIELD Training fiascos.

Does make the town crier's job easier, find apology-copy-paste-wait until next SHIELD Training-repeat

Of course, the easy fix is to stop featuring the absolute most recent 4*.  That solves literally all the issues.

But I should go buy a Powerball ticket, because it's way more likely I'll  win the lottery than they will stop requiring the latest 4*.

They don't even need to eliminate him. The average decent player in a good alliance can get 5-7 covers before ST and maybe pull a cover or two after entering the pool.

Just lower the character level to 150-175 and give people a reasonable chance to finish it. As it stands, the 111 to 209 jump is Ludacris especially if you also need to dump iso into the other 2 four stars.

I would argue the most an average player in a good alliance gets is four: one from PvE personal placement, one from alliance placement, and one each from PvP and PvE progression. Above average will pull down one, maybe two more from PvE placement. So that's six covers. Elite players will get one more from T2 PvE placement and two more from PvP placement. That's nine. Add in one more from SHIELD Training (they'll likely have all the required characters at 209, including the most recent 4*), and there's your 10 covers. But I'd wager the players meeting all those conditions are less than one percent. Of course, the other option is whaling. 

But I think I mentioned this in the Sneak Peek or Space Gem season thread, the fact that the season is starting with a release event, the odds are good that we'll have two 4*s released this season.

The last time that happened was with MEHulk and Nico, and Hulk was required in Nico's SHIELD Training, even though he wasn't in tokens yet. No amount of whaling can help you there. 

They assured us that was a mistake and not intended, but will it be fixed this time around? How many times did Strange Sights run with that scoring bug? Here's hoping that one will be fixed the next time that event comes around.

The Marvel.com article implied Shuri will be the next 4* released, so how will they do SHIELD Training for her if she's released on February 22, before P4nther is in tokens? If they can't feature P4nther, will it just be Kraven again? Or some other 4*?

Or, they could just move away from featuring the absolute latest 4* and solve all those problems entirely. 

smkspy

I agree about your numbers on what a average player could get, but number of covers wasn't really the point. I was using best case for a non-super diehard shark/whale.

Simply lowering the level requirement for the last node at the very least entices people to open hoards. It gives the idea of that finishing ST for the four star is possible. It would still retain that aspect of being pay-gated, but wouldn't alien a vast majority of the playerbase.

There should be a medium between having enough covers for the newest 4 and having to pay your way to get it. As it stands, common sense tells most player not to waste iso or CP for a minimum return. Mostly importantly given that 4s are a dime a dozen now. It's a bloated tier with an antiqued distribution model.

DyingLegend

Not a fan of the shield training event 

FinnyMPQ

smkspy said:

DarthDeVo said:

Colognoisseur said:

Brigby said:

Hi Everyone. Apologies for the inconvenience. In the future, we will make sure that the three supporting characters in S.H.I.E.L.D. Training will be in packs when the event starts.

There is an echo in here I think. I believe we had this statement after the last two SHIELD Training fiascos.

Does make the town crier's job easier, find apology-copy-paste-wait until next SHIELD Training-repeat

Of course, the easy fix is to stop featuring the absolute most recent 4*.  That solves literally all the issues.

But I should go buy a Powerball ticket, because it's way more likely I'll  win the lottery than they will stop requiring the latest 4*.

They don't even need to eliminate him. The average decent player in a good alliance can get 5-7 covers before ST and maybe pull a cover or two after entering the pool.

Just lower the character level to 150-175 and give people a reasonable chance to finish it. As it stands, the 111 to 209 jump is Ludacris especially if you also need to dump iso into the other 2 four stars.

Average player in a good alliance? I do 6 clears of every node (including 5*) and barely hang on to top 100 finish to get 1 cover. I must not be elite enough. No way I'm gonna start tapping anytime soon...

I agree with lowering the level tho. 209 is ridiculous. Maybe make it combined 600 to give longer tenured players the edge they are supposed to have? 

smkspy

FinnyMPQ said:

smkspy said:

DarthDeVo said:

Colognoisseur said:

Brigby said:

Hi Everyone. Apologies for the inconvenience. In the future, we will make sure that the three supporting characters in S.H.I.E.L.D. Training will be in packs when the event starts.

There is an echo in here I think. I believe we had this statement after the last two SHIELD Training fiascos.

Does make the town crier's job easier, find apology-copy-paste-wait until next SHIELD Training-repeat

Of course, the easy fix is to stop featuring the absolute most recent 4*.  That solves literally all the issues.

But I should go buy a Powerball ticket, because it's way more likely I'll  win the lottery than they will stop requiring the latest 4*.

They don't even need to eliminate him. The average decent player in a good alliance can get 5-7 covers before ST and maybe pull a cover or two after entering the pool.

Just lower the character level to 150-175 and give people a reasonable chance to finish it. As it stands, the 111 to 209 jump is Ludacris especially if you also need to dump iso into the other 2 four stars.

Average player in a good alliance? I do 6 clears of every node (including 5*) and barely hang on to top 100 finish to get 1 cover. I must not be elite enough. No way I'm gonna start tapping anytime soon...

I agree with lowering the level tho. 209 is ridiculous. Maybe make it combined 600 to give longer tenured players the edge they are supposed to have? 

Again, it's not really about the number of characters you personally get. I was giving a low ball best case estimate, myself six covers...which I got only thru a rare good event: two for top 20, 1 PVP, 1 alliance, 1 vault... can't remember 6th. I do zero tapping fwiw.

Though you only six clears when 7 means the world for a new release, but I wasn't trying to make a knock on players that can't achievey stated best case.

The latter portion of your post is my point. Lower the level to 150-175 and people (a way bigger majority than at the current levels) will be more inclined to break hoards, level up characters, and even spend to gain one cover of the newest 4. It's just plain gain vs loss theory for both sides.

DarthDeVo

smkspy said:

FinnyMPQ said:

smkspy said:

DarthDeVo said:

Colognoisseur said:

Brigby said:

Hi Everyone. Apologies for the inconvenience. In the future, we will make sure that the three supporting characters in S.H.I.E.L.D. Training will be in packs when the event starts.

There is an echo in here I think. I believe we had this statement after the last two SHIELD Training fiascos.

Does make the town crier's job easier, find apology-copy-paste-wait until next SHIELD Training-repeat

Of course, the easy fix is to stop featuring the absolute most recent 4*.  That solves literally all the issues.

But I should go buy a Powerball ticket, because it's way more likely I'll  win the lottery than they will stop requiring the latest 4*.

They don't even need to eliminate him. The average decent player in a good alliance can get 5-7 covers before ST and maybe pull a cover or two after entering the pool.

Just lower the character level to 150-175 and give people a reasonable chance to finish it. As it stands, the 111 to 209 jump is Ludacris especially if you also need to dump iso into the other 2 four stars.

Average player in a good alliance? I do 6 clears of every node (including 5*) and barely hang on to top 100 finish to get 1 cover. I must not be elite enough. No way I'm gonna start tapping anytime soon...

I agree with lowering the level tho. 209 is ridiculous. Maybe make it combined 600 to give longer tenured players the edge they are supposed to have? 

Again, it's not really about the number of characters you personally get. I was giving a low ball best case estimate, myself six covers...which I got only thru a rare good event: two for top 20, 1 PVP, 1 alliance, 1 vault... can't remember 6th. I do zero tapping fwiw.

Though you only six clears when 7 means the world for a new release, but I wasn't trying to make a knock on players that can't achievey stated best case.

The latter portion of your post is my point. Lower the level to 150-175 and people (a way bigger majority than at the current levels) will be more inclined to break hoards, level up characters, and even spend to gain one cover of the newest 4. It's just plain gain vs loss theory for both sides.

I'm not disagreeing with you, lowering the threshold would definitely help.

I'm still curious to see how the next SHIELD Training will be handled. Will it require P4nther and we get another mea culpa? Will it just require Kraven again, since he'll be the most recent 4* actually in tokens? Or will they just pick three Classic characters? Or two Classics and a random Latest?

LifeofAgony

Unless there’s another 4* released after 4BP you should anticipate next one to be 4BP and 2 “vintage” 4* as part of the idealogy was to reward vets or something along those lines.

DarthDeVo

LifeofAgony said:

Unless there’s another 4* released after 4BP you should anticipate next one to be 4BP and 2 “vintage” 4* as part of the idealogy was to reward vets or something along those lines.

 The problem is we'll probably get a new 4* in 13 days, which will still be about two weeks before P4nther is in tokens. Marvel.com article basically said it will be Shuri and seeing as how we just had a 5* released, she'll likely be a 4*.

The last time this happened, MEHulk was required for Nico's training before he was available in tokens. 

We pointed this out almost instantly, yet the event went live with no way to get any MEHulk covers, even if you wanted to whale. 

Devs came back and basically said, "Whoopsie, we didn't mean to require a character not in tokens." Of course, there wasn't an explanation about what they should have done, or how they intended to address it the next time. 

Now it looks like we're probably going to be coming up on "next time" in two weeks, and I'm curious how they're going to avoid repeating the MEHulk/Nico mistake again.

JHawkInc

DarthDeVo said:

LifeofAgony said:

Unless there’s another 4* released after 4BP you should anticipate next one to be 4BP and 2 “vintage” 4* as part of the idealogy was to reward vets or something along those lines.

 The problem is we'll probably get a new 4* in 13 days, which will still be about two weeks before P4nther is in tokens. Marvel.com article basically said it will be Shuri and seeing as how we just had a 5* released, she'll likely be a 4*.

The last time this happened, MEHulk was required for Nico's training before he was available in tokens. 

We pointed this out almost instantly, yet the event went live with no way to get any MEHulk covers, even if you wanted to whale. 

Devs came back and basically said, "Whoopsie, we didn't mean to require a character not in tokens." Of course, there wasn't an explanation about what they should have done, or how they intended to address it the next time. 

Now it looks like we're probably going to be coming up on "next time" in two weeks, and I'm curious how they're going to avoid repeating the MEHulk/Nico mistake again.

It would be nice if they would shuffle the cycle back a bit. Like, currently Kraven has just entered packs and is required for Black Panther, and presumably, Black Panther is required for Shuri coming down the pipe.

What if they repeated Kraven (just this one time), and made him the required character for Shuri's Shield Training? Then Black Panther would be required in the 4* that comes after Shuri, so it's offset to give just a little extra time to acquire the newest character featured in Shield Training.

Part of the problem is that Kraven has just entered packs and you have to whale him in order to pursue a Black Panther cover, but there's such a huge gap between where most players are (a few Kraven covers) and where they need to be (10 covers) that they're more inclined to write it off than to try.

If we had a little bit of time to acquire some covers normally, we might be more inclined to spend a little to get the last one we need. And the tiny bit of delay could give them more time to rotate the character into packs in the first place, so there's a smaller chance of someone being required in Shield Training before they're available as a character.

Colognoisseur

Here let me use my amazing Nostradamus-like powers to predict the future.

In two weeks SHIELD Training will start for Shuri. As the Aloof Overlords of Demiurge have done in the past they will not think ahead and Tron Panther will not be available in tokens.

There will be a forum thread pointing to the lack of opportunity to open tokens for Tron Panther.

The Town Crier will then be sent out to say:

"Hi Everyone. Apologies for the inconvenience. In the future, we will make sure that the three supporting characters in S.H.I.E.L.D. Training will be in packs when the event starts."

Aaaaaand life will continue on its predicted axis for us paying beta testers.

Huntah86

FinnyMPQ said:

Average player in a good alliance? I do 6 clears of every node (including 5*) and barely hang on to top 100 finish to get 1 cover. I must not be elite enough. No way I'm gonna start tapping anytime soon...

I agree with lowering the level tho. 209 is ridiculous. Maybe make it combined 600 to give longer tenured players the edge they are supposed to have? 

I'd recommend just doing the one more clear through for 7 clears. That's what I do and I can occasionally finish t20 and always easily finish t50 even with very sub-optimal clears.  This event I had to do my final clears about 4 hours early for sub 2 and started sub 3 about 6 hours late since I had plans with family and friends and still easily finished t50 and seeing a few alliance members brackets, could've finished easily t20 and even t5 in a fair amount of brackets.

Arphaxad

Is there a way to just block the SHIELD training event? I'm not a whale and this event is totally worthless for me. The newest 4*s do not ever get covered fast enough for me to participate, so I would rather not have to see it on my list. Maybe move it to the prologue or something.

SHIELD training is one of the most worthless, waste of time, D3 has produced so far. Why not just make a special event that requires max champ 5*s only, with elite tokens as rewards.

LifeofAgony

Arphaxad said:

Is there a way to just block the SHIELD training event? I'm not a whale and this event is totally worthless for me. The newest 4*s do not ever get covered fast enough for me to participate, so I would rather not have to see it on my list. Maybe move it to the prologue or something.

SHIELD training is one of the most worthless, waste of time, D3 has produced so far. Why not just make a special event that requires max champ 5*s only, with elite tokens as rewards.

Even without being a whale there’s quite a bit of loot for minimal effort.  I’m happy to be the voice of criticism for the devs but besides the overt paywall for the LT, you can actually get every other reward without having to spend a dime.

Nick441234

I hope its something thats never removed cause I pick up a lot of tokens and ISO from it. Shield Training is only a good thing, in my eyes. 

n25philly

I don't get how anyone does it.  Are the new 4 stars even in the event packs?  I'm past day 1000 and I've never gotten a new 4 star from the event token no matter how many I managed to accumulate.  I can only imagine how many you actually have to pull to get enough to do shield training

Bowgentle

n25philly said:

I don't get how anyone does it.  Are the new 4 stars even in the event packs?  I'm past day 1000 and I've never gotten a new 4 star from the event token no matter how many I managed to accumulate.  I can only imagine how many you actually have to pull to get enough to do shield training

Zero.

T10 PVE for 3 covers, T5 PVP for 2, Alliance PVE for 1, PVP Prog for 1, PVE Prog for 1, SSim for 1, 1 from shield training = 10 covers for next shield training.

You have to be in the top 1% of the players in the game, but it can be done without pulling.

DarthDeVo

n25philly said:

I don't get how anyone does it.  Are the new 4 stars even in the event packs?  I'm past day 1000 and I've never gotten a new 4 star from the event token no matter how many I managed to accumulate.  I can only imagine how many you actually have to pull to get enough to do shield training

 I'm about day 650, and I think I've gotten precisely one. I pulled a Vulture cover from the store during his PvP release event with a token I had gotten from progression during that event. 

And I outlined how to get to 10 covers above. It's pretty much only for the top one percent or better. The rest of us have to pray to RNGesus or go a-whalin'.

purplemur

average? decent?
I feel like your talking ish from the mountain top. 
how many alliances are there? how many get a cover?
how many people in a slice? how many get a cover?
how many get 900 in PvP?
1 in 17 from a store and how many of those tokens does the average player get? then:1 in 80 from a vault; how many players will get that one measly token?
is your regular run-of the mill player in double buy cubs?

you are not the mean/average/median/central range ie regular, you are elite. You are on the forums because you are an exceptional player who is quite good at this pastime of matching glowey things and making bad guys go boom.
The forum needs to stop using the me first lens of personal validation to describe the state of the game. Use some objective analysis and try to imagine what the ISO struggle is for newbs & 2 year players & 1000day vets. 

on the flip: not every player SHOULD be able to get every prize. ShieldS.I.M is for seasoned, highly competitive vets. BUT the devs seem determined on shorting the player experience at every turn. there was a poll the last time the SIM ran and in perhaps 2 slices more than one person progressed. The disconnect is that most of the players posting on this thread would seem to be the perfect candidates for this "event". Yet too many are saying wttk I can't get to 209 with that short of a window! because the devs did not provide a clear and fair pathway to achieve it.

The mistakes they keep making over and over are bad brand management(compare with other Marvel titles), poor customer relations(they listen?), vacuum driven analytics(KPI's), antiquated business model(dev/publisher&ptw) = Shield  S.I.M. which, like most MPQ rollouts the management does not provide the budget/staffing directives to put out consistent high quality product. Shield SIM is a stinker right now but they COULD improve it and make it better. The best place to start is listening to your customers!

Daredevil217

purplemur said:

not every player SHOULD be able to get every prize.

Out of all that text you wrote, this is pretty much all it boils down to right here.

Players are upset because there is a carrot out there that they can’t reach. There was a time when 3* DDQ was an unreachable carrot. As were many crashes, and many Essentials, and 575 then 900 PVP. 1200 is still an unreachable carrot for me. If I ever decide to champ my 5s maybe I’ll get there. SHIELD Training is no different. You say this event is for the top elite (really it’s for whales). Well maybe one day you’ll get there. The cool thing about this is that there is not a huge payoff for completing it. It’s not going to put you at some huge deficit ignoring it altogether. I’ve been able to get the 4* cover sometimes and others I’ve barely done the first row.

I will say that it has made me prioritize putting iso into characters I’m not so excited for. Makes it sting a little less when I get extra rewards for pumping iso into Thing and Kraven, knowing I plan to champ everyone eventually. 

Also, if I just do one node I get more resources than if we didn’t have SHIELD Training altogether.  So that alone is worth it. 

Finally, if I had the mentality of some players I’d never play PVP. “I can’t get to 1200 so why bother??”