400 Purple Crystal Elite Pack Discussion

Krishna

Nalthazar said:

@Brigby

Any chance that you could mention this thread to the developers? I know that there aren't hundreds of responses to it right now, but I think it is an important issue that much of the player base would agree with. It would be nice if there was a chance they could address this in one of their Q&A sessions.

:shrug:

bk1234

wickedwitch74 said:

Ideally, Elite Packs should be treated like Planeswalkers.

If you already own one, it doesn't show up in the Vault.

Grinding away in TotP events, only to receive a duplicate Mythic (and 500 orbs) is not a good feeling.

The game designers should be looking to minimize experiences like that.

It would also reverse what has ultimately happened, which is devaluation of the jewel currency.

I agree with this 100%, and a bit off topic, but worth mentioning -- I think if you buy a card, it should also not be lootable. 

Avahad

Why not just have a masterpiece only section with non dupe guaranteed but charge maybe 1000 purples for it........

Krishna

Avahad said:

Why not just have a masterpiece only section with non dupe guaranteed but charge maybe 1000 purples for it........

this concept has been discussed before... I recall "educated" speculation that such a pack would have to cost at least 3000 purple jewels lol. personally I would love to see an all masterpiece elite pack, but with a few worthless masterpieces mixed with the "real" masterpieces, that way it can at least be a little balanced

Matthew

Krishna said:

this concept has been discussed before... I recall "educated" speculation that such a pack would have to cost at least 3000 purple jewels lol. personally I would love to see an all masterpiece elite pack, but with a few worthless masterpieces mixed with the "real" masterpieces, that way it can at least be a little balanced

The problem with this is that there really shouldn't be such a thing as a "worthless" masterpiece.

Nalthazar

wereotter said:

Here's the problem with your proposal as I see it:

Let's say there's an elite pack with four mythics I do own and four masterpieces I do not own. Under your proposal, it means I've spent 400 jewels for a guaranteed masterpiece while another person who doesn't own all four mythics spends the same amount of currency and doesn't have that same guarantee. It directly contributes to the problem of those who already have getting more than those who don't.

This was already something that could theoretically be abused under the old reroll system, but now that booster crafting is a reality and having every mythic rare card on offer is much more likely than it was, I think it would be unfair to allow people to have that kind of access to the most powerful cards in the game.

Please keep in mind that if we follow the paper schedule, we aren't getting masterpieces starting in Ixalan. Additionally, lets say that someone has actually gotten all of the mythics in a pack, then they deserve to get the Masterpieces too (assuming they're being printed). The amount of time it takes to actually obtain all of the cards in an Elite Pack or the money is astronomical. This isn't a game where the cards have real money, and apart from Omniscience, none of the masterpieces are significantly more powerful than mythics either. There SHOULD be a way to complete your collection. 

bk1234

Matthew said:

Krishna said:

this concept has been discussed before... I recall "educated" speculation that such a pack would have to cost at least 3000 purple jewels lol. personally I would love to see an all masterpiece elite pack, but with a few worthless masterpieces mixed with the "real" masterpieces, that way it can at least be a little balanced

The problem with this is that there really shouldn't be such a thing as a "worthless" masterpiece.

I agree with this -- I have a couple I've pulled and I would have rather pulled a mythic. They just sit and make me sad. 

tfg76

I think they should get rid of the elite packs, award orbs as prizes, and offer special crafting opportunities that are subsets of cards within a set (or even some kind of theme - "Mythic creatures" etc - this has been done in a fashion before). 

It's difficult to see how masterpieces would fit in though, unless we just start treating them on the same level as Mythics.

Nalthazar

span_argoman said:

I don't think Jewel Packs should be giving a guaranteed new card from the pack.

In terms of Orbs, if you're opening a Jewel Pack where you only own half the Mythics, your expected Orbs per Jewel is already triple the expected value for Crystals, or double of Crystals spent on a first-month bonus set. If it's all new, then it's 7.5x (or 5x vs first-month bonus).

And though people may argue that Jewels are supposed to be endgame currency for elite players to round out their collection, I'll argue that Orbs is the great equaliser that has made that role irrelevant. They can now be just a more selective means of acquiring new cards.

Making Jewel Packs yield a guaranteed new card could create perverse incentives like making TotP a must-play since for Platinum it would quadruple your invested resources. It would also incentivise players to hoard Jewels to spend on packs where they have all the Rares and Mythics. 120 Jewels for a Masterpiece anyone?

@hawkyh1 Why not go all the way to have a Masterpiece for 120 Jewels?

*edit*
Perhaps each pack could have an option for a guaranteed new card as well for 1,000 Jewels?

Jewels aren't endgame currency exactly, they are more of a way to ensure mythic pulls since the drop rate in this game is so low. They were also implemented to remove certain mythics as rewards so that mythics would be more broadly available to the whole player base. The more cards you add to your collection, the more you can actually play with the mechanics designed by the devs and play the game thoroughly. In response to what you are saying though, I think there is a necessary change that would need to happen to the purple crystal packs.

120 crystal packs can only give rares, but no dupes
400 crystal packs can only give mythics/masterpieces

Nalthazar

wereotter said:

Here's the problem with your proposal as I see it:

Let's say there's an elite pack with four mythics I do own and four masterpieces I do not own. Under your proposal, it means I've spent 400 jewels for a guaranteed masterpiece while another person who doesn't own all four mythics spends the same amount of currency and doesn't have that same guarantee. It directly contributes to the problem of those who already have getting more than those who don't.

This was already something that could theoretically be abused under the old reroll system, but now that booster crafting is a reality and having every mythic rare card on offer is much more likely than it was, I think it would be unfair to allow people to have that kind of access to the most powerful cards in the game.

To your first point, I think that if someone has earned all of the mythics in a pack, then they deserve to be able to complete the pack if they have grinded for the pinkies. That is basically what Booster Crafting does. 

To your second point, masterpieces aren't significantly more powerful than mythics apart from Omniscience and arguably Platinum Angel. Most masterpieces are largely niche cards that can be fun to use in decks, but aren't strictly and/or significantly better than their rare/mythic counterparts. Finally, lets pretend for a second that they are the most powerful cards in the game, why make it so that people wouldn't have at least attainable access to the game's most powerful cards? That is another issue altogether, but why release a card into the pool if it isn't going to be available for people to play with. It is nice to have cards to chase, as that is what keeps most of us slavering at the grind, but if you don't have a reliable way to get those cards you are chasing, then you are going to burn out and lose interest in the game.

Nalthazar

Sorry otter person. I didn't mean to respond to your post twice.

joerginger

I utterly fail to comprehend why anyone actually considered the idea that drawing a duplicate mythic or masterpiece should even be possible. We spend a resource that can't even be bought (apart from one-ofs like the outrageously expensive 'exclusive' mythic 'bundles' or the other one-of which let us buy 600 unobtainium), which in other words has to be grinded over a longer period of time and thus takes quite an investment on our, i.e. the players', part - and then there's the possibility to draw a duplicate mythic (or 500 orbs)?

Gunmix25

bken1234 said:

wickedwitch74 said:

Ideally, Elite Packs should be treated like Planeswalkers.

If you already own one, it doesn't show up in the Vault.

Grinding away in TotP events, only to receive a duplicate Mythic (and 500 orbs) is not a good feeling.

The game designers should be looking to minimize experiences like that.

It would also reverse what has ultimately happened, which is devaluation of the jewel currency.

I agree with this 100%, and a bit off topic, but worth mentioning -- I think if you buy a card, it should also not be lootable. 

I agree and disagree with this. Whereas I am somewhat inclined to say that Elite packs should not be duped... I also understand that this can be abused and no one has come up with a better idea to fix the loophole beyond not having dupes. That and if a player corners the Masterpiece market by having almost if not all the Mythics that circumvents the reason why we have Booster crafting in the first place.

I for one think the price should double to 800 Jewels and only for non-dupe Masterpieces. No Mythics or Rares.

Theros

Gunmix25 said:

bken1234 said:

wickedwitch74 said:

Ideally, Elite Packs should be treated like Planeswalkers.

If you already own one, it doesn't show up in the Vault.

Grinding away in TotP events, only to receive a duplicate Mythic (and 500 orbs) is not a good feeling.

The game designers should be looking to minimize experiences like that.

It would also reverse what has ultimately happened, which is devaluation of the jewel currency.

I agree with this 100%, and a bit off topic, but worth mentioning -- I think if you buy a card, it should also not be lootable. 

I agree and disagree with this. Whereas I am somewhat inclined to say that Elite packs should not be duped... I also understand that this can be abused and no one has come up with a better idea to fix the loophole beyond not having dupes. That and if a player corners the Masterpiece market by having almost if not all the Mythics that circumvents the reason why we have Booster crafting in the first place.

I for one think the price should double to 800 Jewels and only for non-dupe Masterpieces. No Mythics or Rares.

I see no problem in people having all the masterpieces after getting all the mythics. people deserve that for making the effort or spending cash that doesn't grow on trees. this what cards are made for; to be collected.
The game add cards regularly  so economic worries is not a concern

Krishna

Matthew said:

Krishna said:

this concept has been discussed before... I recall "educated" speculation that such a pack would have to cost at least 3000 purple jewels lol. personally I would love to see an all masterpiece elite pack, but with a few worthless masterpieces mixed with the "real" masterpieces, that way it can at least be a little balanced

The problem with this is that there really shouldn't be such a thing as a "worthless" masterpiece.

Couldn't agree more. there shouldnt be. and worthless is an exhaggeration. But there are. Sunder was my first MP. Then you have the 3 that you need all 3 to trigger full effects, and even then Its marginally good. what to speak of sideboard cards Boil and Choke. Those actually can be w9rthless if your opponent is not blue

Dutchrudder

I have choke, and never used it. Always seemed like a waste of a cars slot.

Coilbox

Masterpieces are overrated... There are a few that are really good, yes... But cmon, you have maaaany more mythics, many of them better than some of the masterpieces (which is ridiculous and doesnt make sense), easier to pull in theory, and also able to craft with no dupe garanteed.
Why would you bother on gambling for a masterpiece? A dupe masterpiece doesnt even give you enough orbs to craft a legacy mythic... The only MP that makes me shake when the AI plays it is Omniscience, and not for the card itself, but because what comes after it usually.
I understand from a perspective of a collecting purpose, but from a useful perspective... pffft i couldnt care less about masterpieces to be honest.

Sirchombli

I kind of think that elite packs should just be done away with. The prospect of guaranteed non dupes seems unrealistic, and I don't think there's a way to alleviate the problem that will be satisfactory. Giving us two ways to chase specific cards seems like a really bad business move. Especially if there are still masterpieces in spite of them not being in the paper set. I feel like they could give out orbs as event rewards. I'm sure they'd be a nominal amount, but it would eliminate the feel bads without completely murdering the game's economy. Plus, with how much people want certain masterpieces nerfed, asking for more of them in circulation would not help community morale. I'd love to be able to chase masterpieces. I'm also not one of the myriad of people crying about them being op. Be careful what you wish for. 

khurram

Sirchombli said:

Plus, with how much people want certain masterpieces nerfed, asking for more of them in circulation would not help community morale. I'd love to be able to chase masterpieces. I'm also not one of the myriad of people crying about them being op. Be careful what you wish for. 

Not certain masterpieces... Just the one. And let's be honest, 90+% of people posting to get Omniscience nerfed don't have it and aside from their exaggerated claims that it's making them quit 9 out of 10 games every day, the real reason is that they don't like the idea of potentially losing to a deck they can't  make for themselves. Not really because it's broken and they want the game to be "balanced".

PS: a little off topic rant. Sorry. I blame the delay in release of Ixalan. 

span_argoman

joerginger said:

I utterly fail to comprehend why anyone actually considered the idea that drawing a duplicate mythic or masterpiece should even be possible. We spend a resource that can't even be bought (apart from one-ofs like the outrageously expensive 'exclusive' mythic 'bundles' or the other one-of which let us buy 600 unobtainium), which in other words has to be grinded over a longer period of time and thus takes quite an investment on our, i.e. the players', part - and then there's the possibility to draw a duplicate mythic (or 500 orbs)?

Because if you calculate the expected value of your purchase as I did in my previous reply to this thread, you would realise that it is already a superior purchase compared to the other options in the game. If we want more assurance (ie. lesser or no chance to get a duplicate), there would logically have to be a premium to make it not be the overwhelmingly superior option over everything else.

MADAFAKA said:

Gunmix25 said:

I agree and disagree with this. Whereas I am somewhat inclined to say that Elite packs should not be duped... I also understand that this can be abused and no one has come up with a better idea to fix the loophole beyond not having dupes. That and if a player corners the Masterpiece market by having almost if not all the Mythics that circumvents the reason why we have Booster crafting in the first place.

I for one think the price should double to 800 Jewels and only for non-dupe Masterpieces. No Mythics or Rares.

I see no problem in people having all the masterpieces after getting all the mythics. people deserve that for making the effort or spending cash that doesn't grow on trees. this what cards are made for; to be collected.
The game add cards regularly  so economic worries is not a concern

There should be a way for players to eventually complete their collection, yes. But making it suddenly dirt cheap for 
the players who already own 98% of all cards whereas the others don't get that benefit? I can't see how anyone else can agree with that. What warrants the 2% to have this special privilege to complete their collections at a cheaper cost than others? Everyone put in their time, effort, (and money for some) into this game.

If there should be an option for guaranteed Masterpieces, it should be accessible to all players at the same price. And it should be priced accordingly such that it isn't ridiculously more valuable than the other options around. That's all I'm asking for as compared to people who want to make Elite Packs so valuable that they become incomparable in value.

Krishna said:

Avahad said:

Why not just have a masterpiece only section with non dupe guaranteed but charge maybe 1000 purples for it........

this concept has been discussed before... I recall "educated" speculation that such a pack would have to cost at least 3000 purple jewels lol. personally I would love to see an all masterpiece elite pack, but with a few worthless masterpieces mixed with the "real" masterpieces, that way it can at least be a little balanced

Let's try to figure out how close that is. Crystals tend to yield 2.3 Orbs each if spent on Premium Packs. 3.3 if we're looking at Ixalan in the bonus Orbs period. A dupe Masterpiece gives 2,500 Orbs. So going by the exchange rates for Mythics and Rares, a new one should be worth 10 times of that at 25,000 Orbs.

3,000 Jewels for 25,000 Orbs would be 8.3 Orbs per Jewel which is still way above what Crystals yield. Seems like the base of 3,000 Jewels isn't actually that bad an estimate.