PenniesForEveryone said: Qubort said: LifeofAgony said: In the study of economics and market competition, collusion takes place within an industry when rival companies cooperate for their mutual benefit. Allies competing with one another working towards mutual benefit and limiting opportunities for others. Sounds kind of textbook as collusion.Doesn’t make it wrong, but lipstick on a pig is still a pig. If you’re not privy to utilizing line and being allowed access to one these rooms, you’re not scoring 4K without a massive roster and ungodly amount of time and resources on your hands. It doesn't limit opportunities. It makes it easier for everyone to climb as scores grow. The higher the scores the higher the hits. Access to shield check rooms is simply asking. Unless you are a known "sniper" then it's kept secret from you, so that you can collude against the snipers.
Qubort said: LifeofAgony said: In the study of economics and market competition, collusion takes place within an industry when rival companies cooperate for their mutual benefit. Allies competing with one another working towards mutual benefit and limiting opportunities for others. Sounds kind of textbook as collusion.Doesn’t make it wrong, but lipstick on a pig is still a pig. If you’re not privy to utilizing line and being allowed access to one these rooms, you’re not scoring 4K without a massive roster and ungodly amount of time and resources on your hands. It doesn't limit opportunities. It makes it easier for everyone to climb as scores grow. The higher the scores the higher the hits. Access to shield check rooms is simply asking.
LifeofAgony said: In the study of economics and market competition, collusion takes place within an industry when rival companies cooperate for their mutual benefit. Allies competing with one another working towards mutual benefit and limiting opportunities for others. Sounds kind of textbook as collusion.Doesn’t make it wrong, but lipstick on a pig is still a pig. If you’re not privy to utilizing line and being allowed access to one these rooms, you’re not scoring 4K without a massive roster and ungodly amount of time and resources on your hands.
LifeofAgony said: It doesn't limit opportunities. It makes it easier for everyone to climb as scores grow. The higher the scores the higher the hits. Access to shield check rooms is simply asking. So you don’t also track your brackets to ensure the placements are taken by those that you want? No, totally doesn’t limit things at all.You can dance around and call it whatever you want, a player who makes a choice to not engage in behavior outside of the game setting that is not moderated or run by d3/Demi is severely limited in their ability to gain all rewards.I personally don’t find it wrong, but let’s not try and act like a battle chat is a dev sponsored portion of the game everyone is aware of and is encouraged to participate in. The colluding nature of it prevents people who don’t choose to do these things to have a much harder experience in PvP and reasonably will never compete for high placement once they’re into cl7 or higher.
It doesn't limit opportunities. It makes it easier for everyone to climb as scores grow. The higher the scores the higher the hits. Access to shield check rooms is simply asking.
HoundofShadow said: I've read through all the comments and thanks everyone for your input and participation. I am amazed by some of the comments. It also showed how much love and dedication they have for this game.It seems like 1) close coordination/teamwork and 2) top rosters 3) timing 4) know your enemies 5) choosing the right slices are keys to 2000 or higher. To answer bluewolf's question, my answers are "no" to all. Answering those questions has allowed me to adjust my expectation of what kind of scores I would be expecting per season in the future. I think I'll aim for 1000-1200 per PvP in the future when my rosters get better. In the meantime, i will aim for 800 first. And 7000 points in a PvP? That's absolutely crazy. I would be happy just by getting 900-1200. That character's PvP must be fun or is it due to the MMR bug mentioned by OJSP?@ LifeofAgony Getting 3k points in a PvP net you only a 12th place? Is it a rare occurrence or does it happens often in your environment?Assuming an average of 5 shields per PvP, it would consume at least 375 HP. This does not include players who throw up 8hours/24hours shield. I think there are 8 PvP per season? They would have spent at least 8*375= 3000HP per season and this is not including shields used in Shield Simulator.I assume chats/battle chats refer to the room in LINE?I forgot about the snipers. Am I right to say that snipers' main role is to prevent non-friendly players from reaching top scores and allowing their allies to reach the top? I'm curious. Do those snipers in their alliances take turn to become snipers or are their roles only snipers in their alliance for most of the PvPs?Lastly, stay calm, players. This is a game and I don't think D3 offers real money for top prize? There are always at least two ways of looking at things. Whether it is colluding or coordinating, try to have fun. I understand all these tactics might seems unfair to some players, but the other group of players did put in a lot of effort to reach 2000. Each of us has 24 hours in a day to use in our life. What's more important is whether you feel that investing X amount of time to reach a certain goal in this game makes you happy and satisfied.Just in case you are mistaken, I'm not in any chat or alliance and I don't plan to do so in the future because it takes a lot of work and precise timing. Also, you have to be careful not to hit any friendly allies accidentally. Once again, thanks everyone for the comments and insights. Stay calm and have fun.
Phumade said: LifeofAgony said: It doesn't limit opportunities. It makes it easier for everyone to climb as scores grow. The higher the scores the higher the hits. Access to shield check rooms is simply asking. So you don’t also track your brackets to ensure the placements are taken by those that you want? No, totally doesn’t limit things at all.You can dance around and call it whatever you want, a player who makes a choice to not engage in behavior outside of the game setting that is not moderated or run by d3/Demi is severely limited in their ability to gain all rewards.I personally don’t find it wrong, but let’s not try and act like a battle chat is a dev sponsored portion of the game everyone is aware of and is encouraged to participate in. The colluding nature of it prevents people who don’t choose to do these things to have a much harder experience in PvP and reasonably will never compete for high placement once they’re into cl7 or higher. At this point who isn’t aware of those resources? None of that info is secret and many people are more than willing to make sure your connected to the right people. This like saying the people who go to Barnes and noble or look on a faq website for guides are cheaters who need to be banned.you can distingush the facts as much as you want, but at this point your the minority viewpoint. If you don’t choose to avail yourself to those public ally available resources, then you have only yourself to blame.
LifeofAgony said:"Want to place t5 or better in cl7 or higher, you need to be part of the club."
LifeofAgony said: You want to help your ally or people you’re friendly with, and do so without losing placements to others. It’s collusion. No one is painting you as bad guys, but you’re not some saintly group either.
LifeofAgony said: If this was all being done via in-game chat within your own ally, yes, it’s coordination. But it’s not, it’s allies that cannot be mentioned on here that share the same slice and decide who gets what placement and work towards preventing those who are not there. its collusion.Show me any example of these rooms that is a single ally, and I will concede it’s coordantion. But you all know it’s not.
LifeofAgony said: Show me any example of these rooms that is a single ally, and I will concede it’s coordantion. But you all know it’s not.
Phumade said: LifeofAgony said: If this was all being done via in-game chat within your own ally, yes, it’s coordination. But it’s not, it’s allies that cannot be mentioned on here that share the same slice and decide who gets what placement and work towards preventing those who are not there. its collusion.Show me any example of these rooms that is a single ally, and I will concede it’s coordantion. But you all know it’s not. I don't know what more to tell you. Language and precision with words actually matter. you can't throw around 7 letter words without actually understanding how they are actually used in the legal and scientific world Especially when you are trying to convice lay people that the word means something different.you might as well say we are all "watneying" for what is essentially your arbitrary definition of the word.Or at least just make your own word so we know not to impute any real word defintion.Its all right. Debits and Credits means something entirely different to a book keeper vs a gambler. Words have different meanings to people based on their background and experiences. Just be clearer that your using the word in a nonstandard definition.edit oh there are many multi team alliance families. These alliance all share a unified social chat/command structure and can easily be considered as 1 single entity that will bake and enforce on each other's behalf. Those alliances participate in both private family chats and public big room chats. some members just share social chat and play private enforcer/sniper modes. There are chats for all playstyles and alliances that cater to both bakers in one shard and enforcers in another.Saying that people cordinate to the detriment or betterment of other players is 100% accurate, but you can find this same thing happening in side a 20 man unit, 40 man unit , or 200 man unit.Its the same phenomena and you call it the same thing other wise its just you making something up. Its just being intellectually honest vs fake news.
PenniesForEveryone said:I'm not saying this is wrong, I collude too. But I'm being intellectually honest about it. I'm calling a spade a spade. So you can stop acting like what you are doing is "coordination" rather than "collusion" because it's somehow more noble because it isn't. There's nothing noble about forcing outsiders to fight and claw their way through your sea of "enforcers" spending hundreds if not thousands of HP on shields so they can earn top tier placement rewards while you all collude against them for T5 in your brackets. You can play however you want, if you want to work together to boost your scores because that's fun for you then be my guest. But stop acting like it's better than playing any other way.
Phumade said: PenniesForEveryone said:I'm not saying this is wrong, I collude too. But I'm being intellectually honest about it. I'm calling a spade a spade. So you can stop acting like what you are doing is "coordination" rather than "collusion" because it's somehow more noble because it isn't. There's nothing noble about forcing outsiders to fight and claw their way through your sea of "enforcers" spending hundreds if not thousands of HP on shields so they can earn top tier placement rewards while you all collude against them for T5 in your brackets. You can play however you want, if you want to work together to boost your scores because that's fun for you then be my guest. But stop acting like it's better than playing any other way. You really do not fundamentally understand the meaning of the words competitioncommunicationcoordination collusion.At least your willing to admit that you do the exact same thing. The good news is what your doing is not "collusion" in the economic, academic or legal sense of the word. So everyone's conscious can remain clear. Perhaps its fortunate that people who read the forums are serial addicts and understand that your using those terms in the " Pop culture"/ slang context vs a legal, academic, or scientific context (yes I consider economics as a science that can be verfied tested and repeated)