How much effort do you need to hit 2000-4000 points per pvp?

CharlieCroker

You're calling it colluding but some would instead call it coordinating.  Coordination to both push the top scorers of the shard even higher AND let others hit 1200 at their leisure, including those still in 4* land.

And yes, bracket tracking goes on but not everybody does it (I always just join at whatever time is convenient for me) and it is totally possible to get top 5 in CL7 upwards without either bracket tracking or being part of a battlechat.  It is generally tougher to compete without a battlechat but as a trade off you can hit whoever you like, whenever you like and as many times as you like.  

The most frustrating thing for me when I played in S4 was having to continuously skip the friendlies floating during my initial climb, including those with much weaker rosters.  Playing solo you can devour those easy queues early on to get easy points (I try not to double tap if possible but I know others play differently) and then save my A-team and healthpacks for when all I can queue are Gambit/Thor, Gambolt, Gambit/Thanos etc.

EDIT - to follow on from WD's comment there is undoubtedly some unsavoury tinykitty which goes on in MPQ politics.  But that's more down to individuals/small groups than the big rooms which were for the most part set up to benefit all of the people in them. 

acescracked

OP asked a simple question and you guys derailed the heck out of this thread! Into a good vs evil, right vs wrong, Jedi vs sith, everyone vs the Patriots discussion.

Phumade

PenniesForEveryone said:

Qubort said:

LifeofAgony said:

In the study of economics and market competition, collusion takes place within an industry when rival companies cooperate for their mutual benefit.  

Allies competing with one another working towards mutual benefit and limiting opportunities for others.  Sounds kind of textbook as collusion.

Doesn’t make it wrong, but lipstick on a pig is still a pig.  If you’re not privy to utilizing line and being allowed access to one these rooms, you’re not scoring 4K without a massive roster and ungodly amount of time and resources on your hands.

It doesn't limit opportunities. It makes it easier for everyone to climb as scores grow. The higher the scores the higher the hits. Access to shield check rooms is simply asking.  

Unless you are a known "sniper" then it's kept secret from you, so that you can collude against the snipers.

Lol then join the sniper callout room.  There are rooms for ever style of play

Phumade

LifeofAgony said:

It doesn't limit opportunities. It makes it easier for everyone to climb as scores grow. The higher the scores the higher the hits. Access to shield check rooms is simply asking.  

So you don’t also track your brackets to ensure the placements are taken by those that you want?  No, totally doesn’t limit things at all.

You can dance around and call it whatever you want, a player who makes a choice to not engage in behavior outside of the game setting that is not moderated or run by d3/Demi is severely limited in their ability to gain all rewards.

I personally don’t find it wrong, but let’s not try and act like a battle chat is a dev sponsored portion of the game everyone is aware of and is encouraged to participate in.  The colluding nature of it prevents people who don’t choose to do these things to have a much harder experience in PvP and reasonably will never compete for high placement once they’re into cl7 or higher.

At this point who isn’t aware of those resources?  None of that info is secret and many people are more than willing to make sure your connected to the right people.  This like saying the people who go to Barnes and noble or look on a faq website for guides are cheaters who need to be banned.

you can distingush the facts as much as you want,  but at this point your the minority viewpoint. If you don’t choose to avail yourself to those public ally available resources, then you have only yourself to blame.

HoundofShadow

I've read through all the comments and thanks everyone for your input and participation. I am amazed by some of the comments. It also showed how much love and dedication they have for this game.

It seems like 1) close coordination/teamwork and 2) top rosters 3) timing 4) know your enemies 5) choosing the right slices are keys to 2000 or higher.

To answer bluewolf's question, my answers are "no" to all. Answering those questions has allowed me to adjust my expectation of what kind of scores I would be expecting per season in the future. I think I'll aim for 1000-1200 per PvP in the future when my rosters get better. In the meantime, i will aim for 800 first. 

And 7000 points in a PvP? That's absolutely crazy. I would be happy just by getting 900-1200. That character's PvP must be fun or is it due to the MMR bug mentioned by OJSP?

@ LifeofAgony 
Getting 3k points in a PvP net you only a 12th place? Is it a rare occurrence or does it happens often in your environment?

Assuming an average of 5 shields per PvP, it would consume at least 375 HP. This does not include players who throw up 8hours/24hours shield. I think there are 8 PvP per season? They would have spent at least 8*375= 3000HP per season and this is not including shields used in Shield Simulator.

I assume chats/battle chats refer to the room in LINE?

I forgot about the snipers. Am I right to say that snipers' main role is to prevent non-friendly players from reaching top scores and allowing their allies to reach the top? I'm curious.  Do those snipers in their alliances take turn to become snipers or are their roles only snipers in their alliance for most of the PvPs?

Lastly, stay calm, players. This is a game and I don't think D3 offers real money for top prize? There are always at least two ways of looking at things. Whether it is colluding or coordinating, try to have fun. I understand all these tactics might seems unfair to some players, but the other group of players did put in a lot of effort to reach 2000. 

Each of us has 24 hours in a day to use in our life. What's more important is whether you feel that investing X amount of time to reach a certain goal  in this game makes you happy and satisfied.

Just in case you are mistaken, I'm not in any chat or alliance and I don't plan to do so in the future because it takes a lot of work and precise timing. Also, you have to be careful not to hit any friendly allies accidentally. 

Once again, thanks everyone for the comments and insights. Stay calm and have fun.

WelcomeDeath

HoundofShadow said:

I've read through all the comments and thanks everyone for your input and participation. I am amazed by some of the comments. It also showed how much love and dedication they have for this game.

It seems like 1) close coordination/teamwork and 2) top rosters 3) timing 4) know your enemies 5) choosing the right slices are keys to 2000 or higher.

To answer bluewolf's question, my answers are "no" to all. Answering those questions has allowed me to adjust my expectation of what kind of scores I would be expecting per season in the future. I think I'll aim for 1000-1200 per PvP in the future when my rosters get better. In the meantime, i will aim for 800 first. 

And 7000 points in a PvP? That's absolutely crazy. I would be happy just by getting 900-1200. That character's PvP must be fun or is it due to the MMR bug mentioned by OJSP?

@ LifeofAgony 
Getting 3k points in a PvP net you only a 12th place? Is it a rare occurrence or does it happens often in your environment?

Assuming an average of 5 shields per PvP, it would consume at least 375 HP. This does not include players who throw up 8hours/24hours shield. I think there are 8 PvP per season? They would have spent at least 8*375= 3000HP per season and this is not including shields used in Shield Simulator.

I assume chats/battle chats refer to the room in LINE?

I forgot about the snipers. Am I right to say that snipers' main role is to prevent non-friendly players from reaching top scores and allowing their allies to reach the top? I'm curious.  Do those snipers in their alliances take turn to become snipers or are their roles only snipers in their alliance for most of the PvPs?

Lastly, stay calm, players. This is a game and I don't think D3 offers real money for top prize? There are always at least two ways of looking at things. Whether it is colluding or coordinating, try to have fun. I understand all these tactics might seems unfair to some players, but the other group of players did put in a lot of effort to reach 2000. 

Each of us has 24 hours in a day to use in our life. What's more important is whether you feel that investing X amount of time to reach a certain goal  in this game makes you happy and satisfied.

Just in case you are mistaken, I'm not in any chat or alliance and I don't plan to do so in the future because it takes a lot of work and precise timing. Also, you have to be careful not to hit any friendly allies accidentally. 

Once again, thanks everyone for the comments and insights. Stay calm and have fun.

What you're thinking of are "enforcers", and nobody really does it right.   Snipers are also known as anyone not in a fancy check room, though some intentionally will hit high points all day just for fun and to hurt others scores, those are the real snipers.

LifeofAgony

Phumade said:

LifeofAgony said:

It doesn't limit opportunities. It makes it easier for everyone to climb as scores grow. The higher the scores the higher the hits. Access to shield check rooms is simply asking.  

So you don’t also track your brackets to ensure the placements are taken by those that you want?  No, totally doesn’t limit things at all.

You can dance around and call it whatever you want, a player who makes a choice to not engage in behavior outside of the game setting that is not moderated or run by d3/Demi is severely limited in their ability to gain all rewards.

I personally don’t find it wrong, but let’s not try and act like a battle chat is a dev sponsored portion of the game everyone is aware of and is encouraged to participate in.  The colluding nature of it prevents people who don’t choose to do these things to have a much harder experience in PvP and reasonably will never compete for high placement once they’re into cl7 or higher.

At this point who isn’t aware of those resources?  None of that info is secret and many people are more than willing to make sure your connected to the right people.  This like saying the people who go to Barnes and noble or look on a faq website for guides are cheaters who need to be banned.

you can distingush the facts as much as you want,  but at this point your the minority viewpoint. If you don’t choose to avail yourself to those public ally available resources, then you have only yourself to blame.

I am well aware of the resources, and know how they work.  I’ve said multiple times, I don’t frown upon it or think it’s bad.  But you’re all kidding yourselves if you don’t think it’s a form of collusion.  Basically it comes down to, if you want to “compete” for high placement at the top end, you’re forced to participate in a non-game supported communication application to coordinate/collude together in order to accomplish this goal.

Nothing put out by d3 says “hey, download this other application besides our game, go plead with someone to allow you into a special room, and then you’ll have a chance to get the brass ring”.

And like Welcome Death stated, no not everyone is allowed into the clubhouse.

Doesnt matter if that’s what you perceive to be the minority view point, it’s simple fact.

Want to place t5 or better in cl7 or higher, you need to be part of the club.

nigelregal

You can get top 5 without working with others. You just need a beefy roster and hit specific slices and get lucky with timing. I play more casual now personally so aim for 1000 points each PVP and use one shield. I use to shield hop with groups to get 2000 or so points. 

If you have a 4* roster you pretty much have to work with others and shield hop to get there. Some slices it might still be impossible.

LordXberk

I stand on the side of it being 'coordination' and not collusion.  At least with my alliance, we are more concerned w/ helping foster newer rosters and enabling them to reach higher thresholds than we are worried about keeping non-friendlies out of reward spots.  It really helped my progression in the mid-game (3* and 4* transition) by being in a great alliance and having the big guys scoring 2-3k+ constantly baking/grilling for me.  It also helps out non-friendlies reach progression by inflating shard scores and providing beatable teams.  I'd encourage anyone who is interested to DL LINE and ask around.  I think most big check rooms are very welcoming.  Lastly, part of this issue really falls on the Devs for being so stingy on rewards (not to mention when they had the terrible idea to move the 15cp reward into placement, let's hope that never returns).  If they'd loosen up the purse strings in CL8 and CL9 and reward more CP and more 4* covers, this wouldn't be as much of a problem.

LifeofAgony

XBeak;  you’re being disingenuous.  You’re in a massive room with well more than just you’re own alliance and while you personally may have “benevolent” ideas about fostering young roster growth, you contradict yourself.

The best way for a roster to grow is to get both prog and placement - beyond 1200 there are ZERO rewards.  The best way for that player to grow would be able to place highly scoring as little as possible above that threshold, not doubling/tripling it.  And further, if you’re helping them by using exclusive tactics, then you’re LIMITING the opportunities of those not in your ally or secret club room.

Why people can’t just be be honest about this is baffling.

You want to help your ally or people you’re friendly with, and do so without losing placements to others.  It’s collusion.  No one is painting you as bad guys, but you’re not some saintly group either.

Maceo511

LifeofAgony said:

"Want to place t5 or better in cl7 or higher, you need to be part of the club."

This part is not true, I know first hand.  

Phumade

LifeofAgony said:

You want to help your ally or people you’re friendly with, and do so without losing placements to others.  It’s collusion.  No one is painting you as bad guys, but you’re not some saintly group either.

LOL if thats your definition of collusion then EVERY alliance is in collusion.

The whole premise of in game alliance chant was so alliances could comunicate and work together.

At this point in time,  did you think that the allainces were made of random people?

Most of these guys actually are friends and chat online.

This is what I mean when you are using the word incorrectly and relying on the general's publics misunderstanding of the definition. of "collusion" 

Which we are all doing by being in an alliance and trading TUs.

And this is the example that shows why your defintion is bad.

Alliance buddy says  I need a whale TU so I can break at end and snipe T1.

I give him a TU which he infacts uses to whale a match and snipe a placement.

Am I now Colluding?  of course of I'm coopertating to deny another player of place, but that doesn't meet the real definintion of collusion that your trying to imply

LifeofAgony

If it was just your own ally, sure.  But these rooms that you’re all inviting people to are allies who are allegedly competing with each other, instead working together to get the prizes they want and prevent those not in their room.  

Again, the in-game chat is designed for that because it’s in game.  Line is a 3rd party app that makes rooms of 100-300 people from all different ally Colluding to get all the top prizes.  Stop trying to spin it as something it’s not.

If this was all being done via in-game chat within your own ally, yes, it’s coordination.  But it’s not,  it’s allies that cannot be mentioned on here that share the same slice and decide who gets what placement and work towards preventing those who are not there.  its collusion.

Show me any example of these rooms that is a single ally, and I will concede it’s coordantion.  But you all know it’s not.

Phumade

LifeofAgony said:

If this was all being done via in-game chat within your own ally, yes, it’s coordination.  But it’s not,  it’s allies that cannot be mentioned on here that share the same slice and decide who gets what placement and work towards preventing those who are not there.  its collusion.

Show me any example of these rooms that is a single ally, and I will concede it’s coordantion.  But you all know it’s not.

I don't know what more to tell you.  Language and precision with words actually matter.  you can't throw around 7 letter words without actually understanding how they are actually used in the legal and scientific world  Especially when you are trying to convice lay people that the word means something different.

you might as well say we are all "watneying" for what is essentially your arbitrary definition of the word.

Or at least just make your own word so we know not to impute any real word defintion.

Its all right.  Debits and Credits means something entirely different to a book keeper vs a gambler.  Words have different meanings to people based on their background and experiences.  Just be clearer that your using the word in a nonstandard definition.

edit 
oh there are many multi team alliance families.  These alliance all share a unified social chat/command structure and can easily be considered as 1 single entity that will bake and enforce on each other's behalf.  Those alliances participate in both private family chats and public big room chats.  some members just share social chat and play private enforcer/sniper modes.  There are chats for all playstyles and alliances that cater to both bakers in one shard and enforcers in another.

Saying that people cordinate to the detriment or betterment of other players is 100% accurate,  but you can find this same thing happening in side a 20 man unit, 40 man unit , or 200 man unit.


Its the same phenomena and you call it the same thing other wise its just you making something up.  Its just being intellectually honest vs fake news.

Daiches

LifeofAgony said:

Show me any example of these rooms that is a single ally, and I will concede it’s coordantion.  But you all know it’s not.

Every alliance I know has their own alliance only rooms.

PenniesForEveryone

Phumade said:

LifeofAgony said:

If this was all being done via in-game chat within your own ally, yes, it’s coordination.  But it’s not,  it’s allies that cannot be mentioned on here that share the same slice and decide who gets what placement and work towards preventing those who are not there.  its collusion.

Show me any example of these rooms that is a single ally, and I will concede it’s coordantion.  But you all know it’s not.

I don't know what more to tell you.  Language and precision with words actually matter.  you can't throw around 7 letter words without actually understanding how they are actually used in the legal and scientific world  Especially when you are trying to convice lay people that the word means something different.

you might as well say we are all "watneying" for what is essentially your arbitrary definition of the word.

Or at least just make your own word so we know not to impute any real word defintion.

Its all right.  Debits and Credits means something entirely different to a book keeper vs a gambler.  Words have different meanings to people based on their background and experiences.  Just be clearer that your using the word in a nonstandard definition.

edit 
oh there are many multi team alliance families.  These alliance all share a unified social chat/command structure and can easily be considered as 1 single entity that will bake and enforce on each other's behalf.  Those alliances participate in both private family chats and public big room chats.  some members just share social chat and play private enforcer/sniper modes.  There are chats for all playstyles and alliances that cater to both bakers in one shard and enforcers in another.

Saying that people cordinate to the detriment or betterment of other players is 100% accurate,  but you can find this same thing happening in side a 20 man unit, 40 man unit , or 200 man unit.


Its the same phenomena and you call it the same thing other wise its just you making something up.  Its just being intellectually honest vs fake news.

I'm sorry that I triggered you by using the word "collusion" but quite frankly it's just the most accurate representation of what goes on in LINE BCs.  Many individuals from many alliances meet in secret LINE rooms and work together (coordinate if you will) to inflate scores to the detriment of all others outside the room.  It's not an open door, as @Welcome Death pointed out - many are not allowed in.  If you were to post a public link here and allowed people to enter without giving their IGN I would concede that you are coordinating, but we both no that not a single one of the large BCs from any slice would ever do that - their secret information would no longer be secret.

I'm not saying this is wrong, I collude too.  But I'm being intellectually honest about it.  I'm calling a spade a spade.  So you can stop acting like what you are doing is "coordination" rather than "collusion" because it's somehow more noble because it isn't.  There's nothing noble about forcing outsiders to fight and claw their way through your sea of "enforcers" spending hundreds if not thousands of HP on shields so they can earn top tier placement rewards while you all collude against them for T5 in your brackets.  You can play however you want, if you want to work together to boost your scores because that's fun for you then be my guest.  But stop acting like it's better than playing any other way.

Phumade

PenniesForEveryone said:

I'm not saying this is wrong, I collude too.  But I'm being intellectually honest about it.  I'm calling a spade a spade.  So you can stop acting like what you are doing is "coordination" rather than "collusion" because it's somehow more noble because it isn't.  There's nothing noble about forcing outsiders to fight and claw their way through your sea of "enforcers" spending hundreds if not thousands of HP on shields so they can earn top tier placement rewards while you all collude against them for T5 in your brackets.  You can play however you want, if you want to work together to boost your scores because that's fun for you then be my guest.  But stop acting like it's better than playing any other way.

You really do not fundamentally understand the meaning of the words 

competition
communication
coordination 
collusion.

At least your willing to admit that you do the exact same thing.  The good news is what your doing is not "collusion" in the economic, academic or legal sense of the word.  So everyone's conscious can remain clear.  Perhaps its fortunate that people who read the forums are serial addicts and understand that your using those terms in the " Pop culture"/ slang context vs a legal, academic, or scientific context (yes I consider economics as a science that can be verfied tested and repeated)

Spudgutter

Phumade said:

PenniesForEveryone said:

I'm not saying this is wrong, I collude too.  But I'm being intellectually honest about it.  I'm calling a spade a spade.  So you can stop acting like what you are doing is "coordination" rather than "collusion" because it's somehow more noble because it isn't.  There's nothing noble about forcing outsiders to fight and claw their way through your sea of "enforcers" spending hundreds if not thousands of HP on shields so they can earn top tier placement rewards while you all collude against them for T5 in your brackets.  You can play however you want, if you want to work together to boost your scores because that's fun for you then be my guest.  But stop acting like it's better than playing any other way.

You really do not fundamentally understand the meaning of the words 

competition
communication
coordination 
collusion.

At least your willing to admit that you do the exact same thing.  The good news is what your doing is not "collusion" in the economic, academic or legal sense of the word.  So everyone's conscious can remain clear.  Perhaps its fortunate that people who read the forums are serial addicts and understand that your using those terms in the " Pop culture"/ slang context vs a legal, academic, or scientific context (yes I consider economics as a science that can be verfied tested and repeated)

All that either side is arguing at this point is semantics.  Sure, words have meaning, but you have to be aware that definitions of words change, and it is not an overnight change.  Just because you don't agree with the change doesn't mean it isn't happening. 

Back on the topic at hand, are their outliers?  Sure.  You can get top 5 with some knowledge, luck and a good roster.  But its rare.  Can their be jerks who take pleasure in keeping other scores down? Sure, but it is also rare.  Do i like answering my own questions?  Undoubtedly. 

I agree with some of what you are saying, and some of what agony and pennies are saying.  The only difference i see between everyone is at least they are making the concession that it is a necessary evil, whereas your stance is more....altruistic. And that i dont agree with.  This is a game, with competition. In order for there to be winners, there has to be losers.  And as long as you are gaming the system (call it cooperation or coordination, its still gaming the system) without that acknowledgment, your argument is flawed, imo.

PenniesForEveryone

Phumade said:

PenniesForEveryone said:

I'm not saying this is wrong, I collude too.  But I'm being intellectually honest about it.  I'm calling a spade a spade.  So you can stop acting like what you are doing is "coordination" rather than "collusion" because it's somehow more noble because it isn't.  There's nothing noble about forcing outsiders to fight and claw their way through your sea of "enforcers" spending hundreds if not thousands of HP on shields so they can earn top tier placement rewards while you all collude against them for T5 in your brackets.  You can play however you want, if you want to work together to boost your scores because that's fun for you then be my guest.  But stop acting like it's better than playing any other way.

You really do not fundamentally understand the meaning of the words 

competition
communication
coordination 
collusion.

At least your willing to admit that you do the exact same thing.  The good news is what your doing is not "collusion" in the economic, academic or legal sense of the word.  So everyone's conscious can remain clear.  Perhaps its fortunate that people who read the forums are serial addicts and understand that your using those terms in the " Pop culture"/ slang context vs a legal, academic, or scientific context (yes I consider economics as a science that can be verfied tested and repeated)

By all means, grace us with your wisdom and define collusion for us then. You repeating that we don't know what it means without defining it isn't advancing the discussion.

Tony_Foot

I wish they would end this collaborative cheating and score inflation. Give PVP one node or force refresh queues every 5 minutes or a max skip number then you have to fight who is in your queue. Yeah we all benefit from trickle down but tit for tat back scratching is awful. Play it properly and if the scores are so low people aren't getting the rewards tweak the rewards.