Enough with the Kvetching!!

khurram

FindingHeart8 said:

andrewvanmarle said:

You sideboard by looking at the Pw you will pkay against, giving you ample information, and adding a card or two that foils the most probable strategies. If i play against dovin ill add support killers etc


F2players get to complain, after they spend, not out of potential. 


And that whale that bought his way into having every card? He is the one paying the game everyone else is playing. 

I agree though that this  game could do more to help new players, but not by making sure to alienate the ones that actually finance the game. 

meh.  I might switch planeswalkers if I think it would be a more fun match, but my general rule-to-self is that each of my decks should be able to hold their ground against almost any opponent without adjustments (unless there are extra objectives but I usually have a secondary deck ready for that anyways).

I don't think there's any risk here of alienating whales, with this current game model you can easily buy your way to the top if you've got the cash to spare, and it's only gotten easier with booster crafting.  I'd debate that there's never been a better time to be a whale in this game than right now.  I'm more worried about the new players or players who just can't afford to keep up with the thousands of dollars whales have invested in this game, and what that might do for player retention.

I understand sticking up for the little guys isn't a popular position on these threads.  But the most successful businesses (app business and just the overall MNCs) climbed their way to success by catering to your everyday consumer, not exclusively the rich.

Erm... How long have you been playing?

I don't know where you got it but stop making assumptions that players who got to the top did it by "buying their way" . Unless you bought the individual exclusive cards, spending money NEVER guaranteed that you'd have a better collection than any player who didnt spend money. Also majority of the exclusive cards sucked, with some exceptions.

It's not a comparison between the so called whales and f2p players. It's a comparison between players who have invested a lot of time in the game and those who haven't yet. Why should they be equal in terms of game resources? Newer players will always have to play catch up compared to the old ones as they should. Before booster crafting I had 125 mythics that I got by playing competitively for almost 2 years. And the ones I was able to craft were from the dupes that I also got by playing competitively.

 How do you know that the decks you are facing are of whales anyway? By their collection? If someone who started way later than me faced me, they will find my collection to be far better than theirs. Should I be accused of buying my way to the top? I know several of my fellow players just like me who have been playing alongside me since the days of BFZ and Origins. And One of the best players who rarely loses a point, in the all time number one coalition in the game, I know him to be F2P. 

FindingHeart8

Instead of making this a discussion of the rich versus the poor and your obvious distaste to one group over the other  lets look at the issue from another perspective.

You have powerful players and weaker players. How they got to be in either group isn't'relevant, what is relevant is that you want -both- groups to have an enjoyable experience.

trying to make te two compete against one another isn't enjoyable for both, too hard versus too easy.

the solution is to devise a way to separate the groups.


trying to compare the collections and the speed they are completed doesnt work either: late/end game players and whales seek to complete collections while early game players seek powerful additions to their decks.

help the starting players with a boost that helps with cards but goes down in a while while not begrudging the end gamers to completing their collection (preferably after the next set hits the game)

Sounds reasonable?

Your 1st sentence: You must've skimmed the rest of my response and not really internalized it.  That's fine, I'm not going to try and lay it out for you any further and we can just agree to have different perspectives on the matter.  Moving on:

Your solution and reasoning (lines 2-6): I'd agree that's probably a decent middle ground proposal.

I'd also add a few additional tiers to help separate.  Maybe a tier *ideally for: beginners, heavy casuals (rarely plays / some cards but poor choice in strategy), casuals (plays regularly but doesn't strive to be win or even complete every event), veterans/competitive-casuals, competitive, elites/whales.  On top of card mastery to determine the tiers, you could add % of story completion and #of hours played as additional measurements for the tier system.  This would benefit Octagon in that they could craft additional customized discounts for reaching the next tier "Congrats on ascending to the Silver Level, here is the limited-time option to purchase these packs/rare to help you on your journey!"  A lot of really successful games incorporate these methods with a positive turnout, both in overall player satisfaction and increased revenue.

FindingHeart8

Kinesia said:

See, I think this game ends up in a slightly weird position compared to others... Because my wife and I play a lot but our 2 kids also play. We spend a little bit and both kids have considered buying little things with their birthday money...
The thing is that this is a good longterm position for the company, because since we are together we have more loyalty to it than other games and there's a very high possibility at least one of the kids will play for the rest of their life....
But right _now_ the kids are mostly F2P, almost completely, but we are a package deal and we need support for play at ALL levels.

(And I already know I'm not alone in terms of families playing.)

It's great to hear that mtgpq can be an fun activity for you for family bonding!  I bet it makes your kids' day when they pack a new mythic lol

I think you gave a great example of why it's great to advocate for people who are mostly f2p.  This may be (or become) a nice therapeutic distraction to your kids for stress relief in the future.  While they might not pay a lot now, over an extended period of time they may buy a lot in the future, especially if this game means a lot to them because it brought them enjoyment through the years growing up playing it.


BACKSTORY TIME:
I've brought people to this game who became whales, but I don't buy a lot in this game to be honest.  I'm a mtg purist who has been playing the card game weekly for almost 20 years now; I go easy on my friends by putting intentional flaws in my decks, because otherwise I would never even have a chance of losing and I want them to have a good time too.

This may be a surprise to @andrewvanmarle but I enjoy facing off against whales the most.  My deck list is incomplete, and I like it that way.  If I owned every card in this game I'd always win and it would be boring, but versus whales I'm at a significant disadvantage, so I don't need to worry about holding back.  It's the close matches, the uncertainty of victory, the suspense of the game that really brings this game to life in my opinion.

Bil

   I m not sure the mastery is the best way to tie players. I mean... When I came to platinum with my first color I did it on purpose to get better rewards in the "pve" events assuming that the difficulty would be the same. I didn't realize the gap between gold and platinum for pvp events would be so huge and I had an hard time to get good rewards in pvp at the beginning.  Card mastery doesn't really give informations about how good is a card collection, nor a player.
   It would make more sense to tie players using their former rankings or the number of cards they have...
 
    Anyway, I think tiers aren't the issue as players choose to go to platinum or to stay in gold for easier (but lower) rewards. 
    The real problem between newcomers and older players (whales or not)  is that the game isn't rewarding at all for lower mastered while it is quite generous for gold and even more for platinum. 

   How could we reduce the gap between the mastery tiers rewards and remain fair for everybody?  

    For pve events, the 55 points rare could be collected by any player... Let's be honest, bronze and silver will have an hard time to get there but at least they get well paid for the effort. 
   
     With slight adjustments TOTP could also be an interesting option. As it is now it has no interest except for platinum players... But it also might become a way to push newcomers too. 
 
     Any player should be able to get back the 30 crystals after 8 matches and the booster for the first match to make it worthy.
     Pinks are good in platinum as the players look after mythics. 
    For gold players I think pinks remain the best option, but players should get less than a platinum player (let's say 15 in gold and 25 in platinum so they also get a little benefit of the adjustment). 
    For bronze and silver, why not some runes to level walkers, an uncommon or a 3card basic booster to play or to get a few orbs. 

For an entry fee of 60 we could get something like this :

Bronze : extension booster + 30 crystals + 1250 runes (50/150/250/350/450) 

Silver : extension booster + 30 crystals + 1000 runes (100/200/300/400) + 3card booster or uncommon card

Gold : extension booster + 30 crystals + 15pinks (1/2/3/4/5). 

Platinum : extension booster + 30 crystals +20 or 25 pinks (2/3/4/5/6  or 3/4/5/6/7). 

  I think it would make those events more interesting for bronze, silver and gold and would give a boost to newbies by giving them more cards to play and/or to convert in orbs. It also would get rid of the 30 crystals privilege for the most "stuffed" players. 

Sirchombli

I'm one of the people that gets all dupes all day. Happens eventually every set. It's a fact of life. They gave us a respite with crafting. I agree that all of the whining and complaining gets really really old. Unrealistic expectations won't ever be met. The game is what it is. As are the rewards. I'm doing a happy dance because we got a legacy event that I never conquered when it was relevant and am having a blast with my coalition and our revitalized og players. Have some fun. It's digital cardboard. It's not that deep. 

FindingHeart8

Sirchombli said:

I'm one of the people that gets all dupes all day. Happens eventually every set. It's a fact of life. They gave us a respite with crafting. I agree that all of the whining and complaining gets really really old. Unrealistic expectations won't ever be met. The game is what it is. As are the rewards. I'm doing a happy dance because we got a legacy event that I never conquered when it was relevant and am having a blast with my coalition and our revitalized og players. Have some fun. It's digital cardboard. It's not that deep. 

We should keep our expectations realistic, I agree, but discussing these things are important, especially with Octagon.

That legacy event you're talking about (Avacyn's Madness) wasn't on the event schedule.  I brought up on the event thread that I'd love to see it, and a bunch of other players jumped in and agreed.  Octagon (in all of their splendid awesomeness) changed the schedule and added it in immediately.  Talking on these threads and voicing our comments/concerns makes a difference, the developers are listening