Enough with the Kvetching!!

Mburn7

Seriously guys, stop complaining.  The holiday rewards were supposed to be a nice bonus, not a permanent thing.  Crafting was something we've been asking for for a long time.  Drop rates are awful, and always have been.
But here's the thing you are all missing (sorry for the caps):

YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE EVERY CARD IN THE GAME
YOU SHOULD NOT GET A PERFECT SCORE IN EVERY EVENT
YOU SHOULD NOT BE DROWNING IN CURRENCY

I mean seriously, looking at the forums the last couple weeks its been nothing but "we need more rewards from events", all packs should be non-dupes (seriously?), rewards should be non dupes, masterpieces should be non-dupes (this one I actually agree with unless they make jewels a little easier to get, a once-a-month dupe is kind of lame), crafting should be cheaper. 

Come on guys.  80% of the point of a game like this is the grind to get new stuff.  If everyone just had every card and every walker at max level and every deck slot, what would be the point?  Hell, I think crafting should be more expensive, seeing as there are already several people with every non-masterpiece card in the game (Note: I am not one of them). 

When I first started playing it took a month to get the 600 crystals needed to get a Big Box.  The first one I ever opened had 5 rares, and 3 of them were the same.  Half of the commons were cards that had come with the Origins Walkers starter decks.
The fact that I can get 300 crystals in a week now seems a bit ridiculous, to be honest.  Getting there even faster would just be stupid.

If you want to complain about the repetitive events, fine.  Complain about the tier system, fine.  Complain about bugs and freezes and crashes, fine.  But please stop asking for free stuff.  I know its frustrating, but that's kind of the point.  You want those mythics?  Spend a month grinding it out.  You'll get there.

Furordraco

I agree. Although you must understand how frustrating it feels to get a lot of dupes. I know you do. Some people, including me at time can't help  complainining publicly. Because i seek the crowds understanding and In some ways their pity. Yeah it's sad, but we're only.human but for the rest I agree, in a game where getting new cards is the biggest adrenaline to render it too easy would give the game a sense of pointlessness.

Nick2357

       +1

morgue427

it is a toss up really, everyone wants all the cards and collectibles, while the companies try to give you some of that while still giving you something to chase. The set up as it is isnt bad as it is i dont think, but the nature of people is always to want just a bit more than you have, so unless they can fix human nature there will always be people complaining that it isnt fair, octagon i think you have made decent improvements and hope you continue to do so.

Houdin

Plus one from me as well to this entire thread.
I actually can't believe some of the ridiculous posts I have seen lately. Some have gone so far as to demand better or more rewards on pain of leaving the game. 
Really at this point if you feel that way...well leave...you won't be missed 
The recent changes from Oktagon have been fanatastic. They breathed new life into this game. We were on the brink of losing this game we all love so much die to austerity measures and greed taken to far. 
D3 finally realized that and have managed to bring this game back into balance.
We should all be rejoicing.
People so easily overlook the fact that this game still has to be profitable. If it b3comes so easy to collect all the cards that any f2p player can do so quickly and without much effort this game will die simply because there will not be enough income for it to remain viable.
You want all the cards? You want more stuff?
Then either grind for it or pay for it. At least we finally have that choice.

TranceAddict

How about no more koth decks. That’s the most annoying thing of all

morgue427

i used to fear koth, i have him now play him and honestly there is only so much he can bring to the game being solo red, now he is oh look another koth with big nasties and kill spells time to deny him red and hope i can beat him down before he cascades

DBJones

The holiday bonuses were awesome, and I'm thankful for them. I'd certainly like it they had continued, but knew that wasn't going to happen. I went into December with around 1000 crystals saved to get Nicol Bolas, and came out with him, Ajani Unyielding, Saheeli, Dovin Baan, and Nahiri. Oh, and almost no crystals left, but I'm back up to ~400 now. As I said, awesome!

The only place I feel needs improvement in this game is the new player experience. Runes are too grindy with how many Planeswalkers there are, and locking people out of the optional tutorials is silly. There's plenty of changes and tweaks I'd like, but those are more inconveniences (or bugs which are a different matter).

bk1234

Cheers @Mburn7

andrewvanmarle

Mburn7 said:

YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE EVERY CARD IN THE GAME

Hell, I think crafting should be more expensive, seeing as there are already several people with every non-masterpiece card in the game (Note: I am not one of them). 

I strongly disagree with this: i think getting a complete set SHOULD be attainable. There is enough new content in the game on a regular basis to offset completing a set. we get new cardsets three times a year so completing a set isn't'detrimental to the game as long as its balanced to take about the lifespan of a set to accomplish  completion.

Being able to complete sets actually keeps players invested in a game where they would at some point drop out because getting those last cards is impossible (while waiting for the new set)

People spend money when they feel there is a reward/payoff. People stop spending if that payoff seems nill.

FindingHeart8

I strongly disagree with this: i think getting a complete set SHOULD be attainable. There is enough new content in the game on a regular basis to offset completing a set. we get new cardsets three times a year so completing a set isn't'detrimental to the game as long as its balanced to take about the lifespan of a set to accomplish  completion.

Being able to complete sets actually keeps players invested in a game where they would at some point drop out because getting those last cards is impossible (while waiting for the new set)

People spend money when they feel there is a reward/payoff. People stop spending if that payoff seems nill.

There's nothing more discouraging to players to find out that no matter how hard you grind, no matter how great your strategy, that you'll never be able to compete with the whales.  That's the economy man, we already have a 1% that gets everything we don't with ease.   We play games like these to escape that reality, not have an alternate digital version shoved in our faces.

When it comes down to it, the bulk of the revenue comes from the masses of average spenders, not the handful of whales you have thousands of dollars to pour into this game.  I, for one, am not okay with giving them a loophole to spend their way to the top.  It may give Octagon a quick cash boost, but it won't be good for their long-term revenue. 

wickedwitch74

There's nothing more discouraging to players to find out that no matter how hard you grind, no matter how great your strategy, that you'll never be able to compete with the whales.  

I disagree. I beat whales all the time. Yes, sometimes they trash me, but this motivates me, or inspires me to try new deck ideas.

I get disgusted some times, but it's good to lose a few games and be challenged.

That said, regarding the original post... I both agree and disagree.

Players should be very excited about the direction that Oktagon is taking the game. They are responsive, communicate with the community, have come through with a very good duplicate conversion system, and have restored faith to the community. Kudos. I'm excited about Ixalan and where they go with the game.

But... we should still give constructive criticism and let the development team know about pain points and areas of frustration.

It ticks me off that my last nodes in an event get unlocked at midnight (I'm asleep) and the event ends at 6:00am (I'm asleep). That's silly.

Oktagon should know about this. They should hear about it from the community, hopefully in a constructive way.

morgue427

the biggest thing about ending times is that not everyone is in the same time zone as you, i work 3rd so they are less of a concern for me but if you have a lot of europe or aisian players those times may work fro them while not helping us players as much while not hurting them so much either.

Gilesclone

A solution I’ve proposed before is to end the event 12 hours after the last charge.  That gives everyone at least some chance to get the last charge.

Kinesia

Ok, What is "flag" on posts meant to do? I thought it was for flagging things as offensive to be moderated, but the flagged things in this post aren't like that at all. Is someone just being spiteful or does it have a different purpose?

__Adam

Clearly getting everything as a f2p players isn't reasonable.  You know what else isn't reasonable? Having to spend tens of thousands of dollars or years of grinding.

Its almost like there's a middle ground that's good for the company and their customers.

Mainloop25

Kinesia said:

Ok, What is "flag" on posts meant to do? I thought it was for flagging things as offensive to be moderated, but the flagged things in this post aren't like that at all. Is someone just being spiteful or does it have a different purpose?

Looks to me like the former. 

Mburn7

--Adam said:

Clearly getting everything as a f2p players isn't reasonable.  You know what else isn't reasonable? Having to spend tens of thousands of dollars or years of grinding.

Its almost like there's a middle ground that's good for the company and their customers.

Here's the thing (and this isn't just in response to this, it was just the last one in the list),

It doesn't take years of grinding to get everything.  Now that crafting exists, it will take like a year at most.  Especially since we are several months behind the paper release schedule.

My point is that the game is no longer just for whales.  Mythics are no longer just for people who spend money (those are masterpieces, and those aren't nearly as common, especially now that the re-rolls are gone).  People complaining about the drop rates and event rewards clearly don't understand how this should work. 

If you've been playing a year and own every card in the game the game is poorly designed. 
If there are dozens of people with perfect scores in events the game is poorly designed.
If you can generate $10-20 in in-game currency every week, the game is poorly designed.

Now, I agree that the rewards could be a bit higher and the drop rates could be better.  I understand the frustration.  But constantly complaining about it as if it is the biggest issue facing the game is just irritating and dumb, and it alienates and antagonizes the devs more than it should. 

Many of you don't remember the early days of this game.  Hibernium really did seem to care about the players and the game.  They came out with cool new content, new story mode chapters, exclusive planeswalkers won in QB, exclusive cards won in event progression rewards (so everyone could get them).  They implemented the duplicate conversion for runes based on player input.  They balanced planeswalkers several times to keep the game even (you should have seen the original Chandra, or Koth, or Jace).  Every time servers went down unexpectedly we got crystals as an apology.  Then gradually over time they stopped caring.  Updates got sloppier, rewards vanished, balance was thrown out in favor of new game-breaking exclusives...ect.  I firmly believe part of the reason for this was the toxicity on the forums.  No matter what was given, people wanted more.  They give a 20 crystal give, people vehemently ask for 30.  They offer a rare card as a progression reward, people want it as a free gift. 

Oktagon is doing a great job so far.  Incessant whining serves no purpose other than to make them feel unappreciated for their efforts, and drowns out legitimate complaints and issues.  All I want is a productive forum space, not a whine-fest

Toodles

Frankly, I don't care what f2p players say or want. They are a leech on the system and the only thing they offer are a slightly wider variety of opposing decks. Spend some money so the game can continue to grow and improve.

 In fact, when you make an in game cash purchase you should receive a discount on packs and booster crafting for a set amount of time based on your purchase. And maybe gain increased rewards during the same 'post purchase' time frame. 

Skiglass6

Book of text incoming. Read next and last paragraph if you do not want the story.

I would like to know which side I am considered with all of this f2p and whales talk. I was an early adopter of this game. Not 1st day but within the first month. Weary of f2p games on the mobile platform, I waited a bit to see what types of pay walls there were going to be. 

I saw no pay walls and the game was generous with the new cards coming in. Just as I was about to start spending money on the the game I got my 1st dupe Mythic as my third Mythic received. There was nothing to do with it and I did not like the idea of buying crystals for packs chasing mythics when there was a chance to pull a duplicate Mythic that I couldn’t do anything with.

Then the exclusive Mythic came out and it was like $30 or $40 USD. I just couldn’t make myself buy one card for what was almost the price of a full game with access to all content.  I missed out on some heavy hitting mythics during this time. 

I was a QBer and enjoyed the game so I kept playing.  About this time the dev team decided that they were not going to do anything with the dupelicates except turn them into runes. I thought at the time it was the worst decision they could make. Why limit their options?  I had plenty of runes from QB so I never converted. 

I think it was around six months or so and I was ready to donate money to the game. The only good investment I could see was a direct myhic purchase. They dev team had held back Sarkhan and I never pulled a mythic dragon (which had really made me mad). I thought that Sarkhan needed dragons to work so when they put him in vault and the dragon mythic came up I pulled the trigger. Ouch. The card sucked but I wasn’t too upset since I felt like I was paying my dues. 

But I wasn’t going to make the same mistake twice. Austerity hit and I was thinking about getting out of the game. I am in a top ten coalition and when Baral came up I had to make a choice. Buy and stay in or pass and get out. I bought and stayed. 

I am frugal with my money so I never bought into the early access of PW. But i hadn’t spent money for a while and I heard Bolas was packed with a mythic and was only $30 I think. So I thought that’s a good buy. Too bad I already has the mythic. I couldn’t bring myself to buy a dupe. Too bad they didn’t give us a chance to choose from a group of mythics. 

This is is no exaggeration. I had saved up a lot of crystals before HOU hit. I bought 15 PP before I got my first HOU mythic. 

What am I supposed to spend my money on. Booster crafting softens the blow of dupes but a dupe mythic is only 1/10 of a standard mythic. I am not going to spend on slot machine rolls.  A pity counter has been brought up and that might change my mind. I do not like early access but if they bundle it with a mythic that I do not have and seems good, I would buy in. I never liked the $30 mythic but when I felt it was time to spend, I thought this was the best choice. 

Sorry for the book. So I have spent $60 on this game and I would have bought Bolas but I already had the mythic. I know I am not a whale but do you consider me to be f2p. 

morgue427

i do i havent spent a lot more but some of the mythics in the soi expansion gisela and baral later but for different reasons, dont regret buying them though gisela i still use in g1 and baral just cause you know free mana lol. A few bucks spent just means you were trying to improve the quality of the game you could play after 500 then your a whale i think