New 1/2* characters for new players

Heartbreaksoup

I'd asked in an earlier thread somewhere whether any new 1* and 2* characters were ever introduced and was surprised that they haven't introduced any in quite some time.

I'm still an MPQ baby, but I'm a middle-aged player who's only read one Marvel title in the last 30 years.  I don't know who many of the newer characters are, but that's okay.  Marvel needs lots of new characters like America Chavez and Nico Minoru to attract new readers and remain viable.  I like to see the company introducing a larger and more diverse universe.

But I'm baffled by the logic in introducing characters to MPQ and making them so difficult for their fans to obtain and use.  I don't need a Nico Minoru; I'd never heard of the character before last month.  But since Runaways has an audience and the game makers would like to attract that audience to get new players, I'm totally confused by the logic of making this character a 4*.  I'm sure many veteran players will champ her quite quickly if they want her on their roster.  How long will it take a big fan of the Runaways TV show to do that from scratch?

But I think there's a better way to sell this game to new players, and surely the more sensible approach is balancing new media properties with a younger or newer fanbase (Runaways, Jessica Jones, Valkyrie) with very easily obtainable characters so new players can begin the game with heroes that they know and enjoy with older characters like Archangel at the 5* level.

I'd introduce three Runaways, perhaps:
1* Alex Wilder
2* Chase Stein, who, when champed, gives rewards of:
3* Karolina Dean, who, when champed, gives rewards of Nico Minoru.

Again, I'm just thinking of new players.  I know veteran players don't need anybody new at lower levels and may not care.  But if I were a new fan brought into this game by Runaways or SHIELD or even Inhumans, I don't think I'd play for very long since getting characters from those programs is so difficult.

broll

If you're playing even remotely seriously you should be in the 3* meta within 2 months tops.  They release new 3*s about once every 3 months so there will be some new releases for you.

TBH you don't know what your missing.  It's exhausting trying to keep up with a new character every 2 weeks.  Enjoy not feeling like your running on an ever increasing treadmill while you can...

Heartbreaksoup

Broll, I'm not sure what "remotely serious" play might be (I only have 20 champed 3*s), but I am not talking about remotely serious players.  For what it's worth, I personally have no interest in collecting characters I've never heard of and it is unlikely that I will "keep up with a new character every 2 weeks."

I'm talking about new players.  I am a middle-aged man who remembers when Black Widow and Hawkeye looked like the 1* versions.  They hooked me with nostalgia.

How do you hook a fan of TV's Runaways to come play MPQ when the first Runaway that they introduce is a 4*?  How do you hook a fan of TV's Inhumans - assuming there are such people - when the only Inhumans are 4* and 5*?  (Well, I think Kamala Khan is an Inhuman, but I don't think she was on the TV show.)

They should have introductory-level characters for fans of the media versions, that is what I am saying.  Otherwise, why should a Runaways fan who heard "Nico Minoru is in the game" stick around long enough to build a decent version of her?

TPF Alexis

Heartbreaksoup said:

I'd introduce three Runaways, perhaps:
1* Alex Wilder
2* Chase Stein, who, when champed, gives rewards of:
3* Karolina Dean, who, when champed, gives rewards of Nico Minoru.

This is the only place I disagree. If there's going to be low star-level Runaways, Molly Hayes should be one of them, since she's the youngest

Heartbreaksoup

Fair enough!  I just got the names from Wikipedia!  

broll

Heartbreaksoup said:

Broll, I'm not sure what "remotely serious" play might be (I only have 20 champed 3*s), but I am not talking about remotely serious players.  For what it's worth, I personally have no interest in collecting characters I've never heard of and it is unlikely that I will "keep up with a new character every 2 weeks."

I'm talking about new players.  I am a middle-aged man who remembers when Black Widow and Hawkeye looked like the 1* versions.  They hooked me with nostalgia.

How do you hook a fan of TV's Runaways to come play MPQ when the first Runaway that they introduce is a 4*?  How do you hook a fan of TV's Inhumans - assuming there are such people - when the only Inhumans are 4* and 5*?  (Well, I think Kamala Khan is an Inhuman, but I don't think she was on the TV show.)

They should have introductory-level characters for fans of the media versions, that is what I am saying.  Otherwise, why should a Runaways fan who heard "Nico Minoru is in the game" stick around long enough to build a decent version of her?

If they aren't willing to stay around because they like the game, the shine of a new character doesn't seem likely to hold them.  

It's also a delicate balance.  If they started going nuts adding lot of new 1* and 2*s into the game a lot of vets that are currently paying money to support the game might drop it.  It would probably get me to abandon it.  Getting new players is good, but a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.  There are a lot of games that change up their model to try and catch new players and end up tanking the whole game by not drawing in enough new players and ostracizing their existing players.

EDIT:  IMO the reason they add new characters from current media outlets is less about attracting new players to the game and more about cross promoting those other shows.  I wouldn't even have heard about the Runaways or Inhumans shows if I wasn't playing this (and the upcoming Cloak and Dagger).  Since we're already Marvel fans (most likely) we're more likely to go watch those so it's a great place to advertise.  If these new characters were meant to draw new players you'd think they'd be advertising the game during the show, instead they are putting pop-ups in the game.

redviper85

I think 1*s should be done with. It's like WoW; I haven't played that in like 10 years but i'm sure no one is hanging around the Badlands or Crossroads (whatever it was called) smacking up low level goons. The game expanded and now they just shoot you past that old stuff so you can play the new lvl 125 DLC characters.

Same thing here. no one wants a cool new Dazzler at 2*. We want her at 5* where she belongs.

Heartbreaksoup

broll said:

If they started going nuts adding lot of new 1* and 2*s into the game a lot of vets that are currently paying money to support the game might drop it.  

I don't understand this objection.  I wouldn't collect a 1* Runaway, and wouldn't think to drop the game if they introduced one.  I don't use a 1* Iron Man, nor does the game require me to to. (Continued below.)

I also did not advocate "going nuts" or a "lot" of new characters.


redviper85 said:

I think 1*s should be done with. It's like WoW; I haven't played that in like 10 years but i'm sure no one is hanging around the Badlands or Crossroads (whatever it was called) smacking up low level goons. The game expanded and now they just shoot you past that old stuff so you can play the new lvl 125 DLC characters.

Same thing here. no one wants a cool new Dazzler at 2*. We want her at 5* where she belongs.

Now this is an interesting idea.  Revamping every few years so that Standard tokens effectively become what we now have as Heroic (2* 3* or 4*) and Elite tokens give you 3* or 4* would be an interesting change, and allow new and younger players to more quickly access their favorite characters, if they're going to continue to be introduced at higher levels.

Continued from above, they could also drop the required 2* node in PVE and have 3*, 4* and 5* be required, so players could stop using roster slots farming 2*s in preparation for 6* characters.  Interesting!  I like that.  Thanks for the idea!

However, I meant to cover that Dazzler example when I mentioned Archangel; I apologize if I was unclear.  Dazzler is almost forty years old.  Of course she should be a 4* or 5*.  My example is about much newer characters with TV/movie appeal like the Runaways or the movie version of Valkyrie.   Valkyrie could be 2* or 3* for the movie version and 5* for Brunhilde.

Heartbreaksoup

I should also mention that I'm considering this from a background of marketing in children's museums, where the product naturally loses interest to our audience as they age, and I am always interested in taking advantage of new media, such as traveling exhibits with a PBS Kids connection, and the potential audience they bring.  (Think of parents who know "Clifford the Big Red Dog" but do not know about museums.)

The major advertising that I see for MPQ is the character announcements at news.marvel.com. These are written to bring in new or bring back lapsed players, but there's a disconnect between the hype that says "Fans of Nico Minoru can get her in the game right now!" and the reality that getting even that first 4* cover is a challenge for a brand new player, never mind the four or more covers necessary to make her reasonably competitive.

broll

Heartbreaksoup said:

I also did not advocate "going nuts" or a "lot" of new characters.

You're suggestion includes 3 low level characters around 1 TV show.  If they did that with every show they have (I think they have around 10 now) that would absolutely be "going nuts".  I took your idea to it's logical conclusion.

ThaRoadWarrior

@Heartbreaksoup This game isn't designed in a way that would benefit from an influx of low-level casual players who are chasing a bloat of 1* characters. If you notice, it is almost completely ad-free, which means the money is coming from other sources.

The only meaningful ways to spend money in this game are through the purchase of in-game currencies or what amount to a subscription via the VIP system. The idea with having a limited roster of lower tier characters is that you get in there, figure out the game with mostly household name characters that are easy to use, then pretty quickly get moved up to the tier where you are incentivized to purchase currency to open up roster slots, buy chances at higher level characters, or stay competitive in the various modes of play (shields for pvp, health packs, etc). You can spend premium currencies in reasonable amounts to get random chances at high level characters, or you can spend it in exorbitant amounts to buy specific covers. 

One of the issues this game has is with character bloat. Due to the totally random nature of cover acquisition outside of specific event rewards, the more characters they add to a given tier, the less likely anyone is to actually obtain them at all, let alone get a useful number of covers. They've tried a few strategies to mitigate this in the past, one being vaulting where older characters just weren't available anymore, which helped people cover their newer releases but  made it so that if you had that 1 purple kingpin on roster, you would NEVER see another one. The current system is to have every character be available, but the latest 12 releases have 3X higher draw odds. I'm sure we'll see something change again with that in 2018, perhaps to something like you see in the Forza racing titles where characters are grouped by affiliation or something.

At any rate, the monetization strategy of the game in regards to roster building is kind of predicated on the characters you actually wanting to have being just difficult enough to acquire that you'll spend money to do it. And then having room for them at all being just difficult enough to do that you'll spend money to do it. And then being able to continue using them repeatedly being just difficult enough to do that you'll spend money to do it. etc. 

ThaRoadWarrior

There is another thing going on where characters who are fictionally at a certain power tier don't really align with their * level in MPQ simply due to when they came out and what the game needed at that moment (Dr. Doom 3* while Mockingbird with no powers at all is 4*, Juggernaut is 1* while there is a 5* Daredevil - a decidedly street-level hero if there ever was one). I think that sort of speaks to your point about why Nico is a 4* vs some other more accessible star tier given her fictional power potential?

I'm not really sure how those decisions get made, but it does sort of highlight the delta between the game design and the IP a little bit. 

Heartbreaksoup

ThaRoadWarrior said:

One of the issues this game has is with character bloat. Due to the totally random nature of cover acquisition outside of specific event rewards, the more characters they add to a given tier, the less likely anyone is to actually obtain them at all, let alone get a useful number of covers...

Perhaps they should slowly phase some of them out.  Is there really a need for four Black Widows?  Why not gradually retire the 1* Black Widow in favor of a new 1* Molly?  Four Hawkeyes?  Slowly cut back on the 2* Hawkeyes covers and eventually retire him in favor of 2* Chase.

ThaRoadWarrior said:

There is another thing going on where characters who are fictionally at a certain power tier don't really align with their * level in MPQ simply due to when they came out and what the game needed at that moment (Dr. Doom 3* while Mockingbird with no powers at all is 4*, Juggernaut is 1* while there is a 5* Daredevil - a decidedly street-level hero if there ever was one). I think that sort of speaks to your point about why Nico is a 4* vs some other more accessible star tier given her fictional power potential?

I'm not really sure how those decisions get made, but it does sort of highlight the delta between the game design and the IP a little bit. 

I certainly agree with this every time I end up fighting an Agent Coulson in PVP who has 30000 hit points.

ThaRoadWarrior

I don't think there is any real value add for the game in shaking up the bottom two tiers either mechanically or financially for them. The 3* Tier is by far the most accessible tier to be able to target covers on purpose through the Bonus Hero mechanic, so having a diverse cast of characters in that tier should make it pretty approachable to even casual players. 4*/5* tiers of play are really just for hardcore players, which is why you kind of do need to have 4 versions of Iron Man or Black Widow: Once you progress past the previous tier of characters, you are very unlikely to use them unless they are required for something because you simply can't compete mechanically (barring a character like Iron Man Model 40 who is such a useful battery for instance). So if you like Black Widow, but are playing competitively, you need to have one with a stronger move set/hp pool to keep using that character later in the game.

Does it make sense to have a 5* Black Widow right there at the same tier as Infinity guantlet Thanos and Silver Surfer? No, not really. Does it make sense that B-List X-Man Gambit is the best character in the game? No, not really. I guess for me, there are a lot of things about this game i wish were handled better, but adding new characters to tiers of play most people grow out of very quickly by design isn't one of them.

broll

Heartbreaksoup said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

One of the issues this game has is with character bloat. Due to the totally random nature of cover acquisition outside of specific event rewards, the more characters they add to a given tier, the less likely anyone is to actually obtain them at all, let alone get a useful number of covers...

Perhaps they should slowly phase some of them out.  Is there really a need for four Black Widows?  Why not gradually retire the 1* Black Widow in favor of a new 1* Molly?  Four Hawkeyes?  Slowly cut back on the 2* Hawkeyes covers and eventually retire him in favor of 2* Chase.

Look at how well nerfs go, how much worse if they just straight out removed someones most powerful or favorite character from the game.  That's a super dangerous proposal.

That being said I've been a huge proponent of phasing characters out, but starting at the bottom.  Remove the entire 1* tier from the game.  That would help with character gloat and help with getting 4*s sooner because 4* rarity would become comparable to 3* rarity and 3* rarity like 2* is today.  That would solve your problem and character gloat.  It's also fairly rage proof because outside of a few people that have barely played most wouldn't care that the useless training tier went away.

ThaRoadWarrior

It's kind of like how people are always talking about taking the Penny out of circulation. It seems like such a good idea, but somehow it just never happens lol.

I don't know about phasing out entire characters across all teirs of play, but phasing out the 1* tier is probably completely expendable. You could probably phase out the 2* tier as well if you were so inclined. But I do like having a pokemon-style collection of heroes even if I'm not playing them all the time, so it would bum me out if characters were kind of just retired altogether. I wonder if being able to max-champ then promote characters to the next tier version would be more fun than the current system or not? Now that is some wishful thinking.

DarthDeVo

I was thinking some about this today, and while it may seem unfair to early players that the first two tiers are more or less set, I got to thinking about it from a financial perspective. 

Creating characters for those tiers take time, just as it does to create 4* and 5* characters. The only problem with that is no one will whale to get 1*s or 2*s, when they already rain from the sky. 

People will whale for 4*s and 5*s, though. So for the devs, I would think they would rather spend their development time and resources creating characters that people will chase with their wallets. 

ThaRoadWarrior

Right, that's what I was trying to convey. Nobody who has been playing longer than 1-3 weeks is going to be hyped about a new 1* character, unless it's maybe as some other non-dark avenger to fight in PVE, so the ROI on developing such a thing is completely negative. That being said, there was a sort of inexplicable change to 1* Spider-Man recently, so somebody seems to be thinking about that tier on the clock...

MissoesRicRose

I think they could also include: Sabretooth; LizardMan; Silver Samurai and Omega Red

ThaRoadWarrior

Omega Red is way better than 1* status, but I would like to see all those characters too

MissoesRicRose

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Omega Red is way better than 1* status, but I would like to see all those characters too

I agree. 
Also wanted to see: Black Heart; Mysterio; MODOK; Kitty Pryde and Emma Frost.