**** Kraven the Hunter (Sergei Kravinoff) ****

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  • himatakohimatako Posts: 263 Mover and Shaker
    His purple screams Medusa/R&BabyG/Gamora counter, reducing all of them to 1 in a few turns while dealing damage. Can't wait to get him because I'm tired of seeing that team everywhere. 
  • HoundofShadowHoundofShadow Posts: 3,022 Chairperson of the Boards
    5/5/3
    Kraven should be in the game tomorrow(11/1). It would be much safer to read his ability in game because I noticed that his passive ability changed a couple of times. It would more likely be a combination of special tiles. Most characters throw out multiple special tiles of the same type, so it's not too much of a concern. 

    I think his black ability is fair. If it's not capped, it would be broken. Imagine doing 15700 damage if each team has 5 AP in their strongest colour and 31400 damage if each team has 10AP in their strongest colour. Besides, the strongest colour could change during the match (depending on both team's composition) when that characters with the strongest colour is downed. 3 AP is only 1 match and it's only a 1 turn countdown. It's almost a given unless you encounter certain characters (3* Sam Wilson, 4* Jean Grey etc) that remove special tiles. But I believe most players would be alert enough to cast it at the right timing to ensure that countdown survives 1 turn.
  • D4Ni13D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
    5/5/3
    Kraven should be in the game tomorrow(11/1). It would be much safer to read his ability in game because I noticed that his passive ability changed a couple of times. It would more likely be a combination of special tiles. Most characters throw out multiple special tiles of the same type, so it's not too much of a concern. 

    I think his black ability is fair. If it's not capped, it would be broken. Imagine doing 15700 damage if each team has 5 AP in their strongest colour and 31400 damage if each team has 10AP in their strongest colour. Besides, the strongest colour could change during the match (depending on both team's composition) when that characters with the strongest colour is downed. 3 AP is only 1 match and it's only a 1 turn countdown. It's almost a given unless you encounter certain characters (3* Sam Wilson, 4* Jean Grey etc) that remove special tiles. But I believe most players would be alert enough to cast it at the right timing to ensure that countdown survives 1 turn.
    Mordo's purple can deal a ton of damage (if the enemy has 30 AP it deals damage for 30AP) and it cost only 9 purple AP (a color that can be reduced to less with Star-Lord, opposed to black that cannot be reduced). How likely it is to have 10AP in your strongest color, especially that there is a very high chance that your strongest color is black when playing Kraven ? Now of course, you could have another strong color, and of course you could wait for perfect timing, but that is the thing: you should be rewarded for timing, not punished for not having perfect timing. 
    And don't forget that AI always uses his AP for abilities, especially the strong color. Times when his strong color would be higher than 6-7 AP would be extremely low, unless your are fighting versus a passive strong color, which would be a result of bad team design/choice from who made that team. 

    I'm not against capping the ability, but not like this. I don't like the current cap method because it is counter-synergetic with his blue ability.

    Lets say you have black strong color. You need 13 black AP in order to have your part of the condition. Lets say that the enemy has 3 AP in his strong color (whichever it will be) and your blue steals 1 of that AP before the CD goes of. Your damage would be for 5 AP, instead of 6. There is the problem. He sabotages himself, and that's not fair.

    There are really strong 4* characters in the game that have only to benefit by using their abilities, and Kraven needs timing. That's not a huge deal, he is a hunter, he needs patience and timing, it's thematic, but you should be rewarded for playing like that. 9500 damage is very low for a black ability, especially when you have the likes of Carol & Gamora in play already. Even Moon Knight who is an older release, has a better black than Kraven.

    1500 damage for his 10AP blue is also extremelly low. Not only that can be destroyed without effect, but the reward for having it, is underwhelming. Sure, the AP steal is fine, but trap tiles are the most unreliable source of special tiles in the game. Mordo (again) and Yondu have way better blue abilities. Even Grocket, who Kraven suppose to counter has a better blue ability than him. 

    So no. This is Sandman all over again. He is weak because he is a Sinister Six member and we will fight against him more often than others. 


  • D4Ni13D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
    edited January 2018
    5/5/3
    himatako said:
    His purple screams Medusa/R&BabyG/Gamora counter, reducing all of them to 1 in a few turns while dealing damage. Can't wait to get him because I'm tired of seeing that team everywhere. 
    I still think you will see that team, even if Kraven would be a good counter. It also depends on what his health will be. If one can kill him in 3 turns with the team you mentioned, than it is no problem. Sure you might lose the strike tiles in the process, but Gamora can make other special tiles, so does Medusa. So having Kraven would not be enough. A combination of Kraven, Rogue, X-23, Thing, Deadpool, Luke Cage could work, but Kraven alone will not make that team disappear, especially if his other abilities are underwhelming. 

    You see, Grocket works because in the best case scenario he destroys the enemy team very fast, and in the worst case scenario, you would be playing normal. But for Kraven this will not apply. In his best case scenario, he will counter the strike tiles and reduce the first turns incoming damage. But in worst case scenario he will be stunned by Gamora, or simply killed first, which will have no effect in countering the team. 

    Other aspect of that team is Medusa. She is the number 1 priority. So she has to go down first. If you don't have a Grocket of your own, it is hard to kill her, and Kraven would not be able to take her down with his abilities. What team do you suggest using and how fast it would be ? Those are the factors that would count toward the disappearance of the current meta team, and I think we're a long shot from that still. 
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 4,234 Chairperson of the Boards
    So the purple special tile threshold is 5 at best? So you could circumvent Kraven by setting Grocket's yellow to power level 3 which only puts out 4 strike tiles. Sure, it is less efffective than having 7 but Kraven's purple wont work at all initially and you would still get the Guardian boost which if champed is still pretty meaty. So you would be able to get a few rounds in before other special tiles were created to really hammer Kraven before his purple came into effect.
  • D4Ni13D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
    5/5/3
    DAZ0273 said:
    So the purple special tile threshold is 5 at best? So you could circumvent Kraven by setting Grocket's yellow to power level 3 which only puts out 4 strike tiles. Sure, it is less efffective than having 7 but Kraven's purple wont work at all initially and you would still get the Guardian boost which if champed is still pretty meaty. So you would be able to get a few rounds in before other special tiles were created to really hammer Kraven before his purple came into effect.
    I suspect the description is wrong there. At first it was 5 and 3 (time of the article), and I think they updated to 6 and 4. Have to wait the in game description to see. 
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 4,234 Chairperson of the Boards
    D4Ni13 said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    So the purple special tile threshold is 5 at best? So you could circumvent Kraven by setting Grocket's yellow to power level 3 which only puts out 4 strike tiles. Sure, it is less efffective than having 7 but Kraven's purple wont work at all initially and you would still get the Guardian boost which if champed is still pretty meaty. So you would be able to get a few rounds in before other special tiles were created to really hammer Kraven before his purple came into effect.
    I suspect the description is wrong there. At first it was 5 and 3 (time of the article), and I think they updated to 6 and 4. Have to wait the in game description to see. 
    OK, so scratch that then probably.
  • SandmakerSandmaker Posts: 208 Tile Toppler
    D4Ni13 said:

    So no. This is Sandman all over again. He is weak because he is a Sinister Six member and we will fight against him more often than others. 


    I don't really think being in the Sinister Six has much to do with anything. Vulture is also part of that group and he's top tier.
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 4,234 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sandmaker said:
    D4Ni13 said:

    So no. This is Sandman all over again. He is weak because he is a Sinister Six member and we will fight against him more often than others. 


    I don't really think being in the Sinister Six has much to do with anything. Vulture is also part of that group and he's top tier.
    But bizarely his boss version is fairly mediocre.
  • The Viceroy ReturnsThe Viceroy Returns Posts: 449 Mover and Shaker
    3/5/5/
    Are those Team Affiliations right?
    I'd have thought he'd have:
    Villains, Sinister Six

    I admit I'm out of it comic lore wise in recent years, and I think he's done a wrestler-esque heel/face turn recently, but when was he ever an X-Man?
  • Rick_OShayRick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    edited January 2018
    So, teams.
    Instantly I'm thinking of Carnage. Give the enemy team special tiles quickly to start Kraven's passive damage once they have 6. Mitigate the worst part about Carnage since Kraven will reduce the value of these enemy attack tiles.

    Of course Medusa would be obvious with these two, but who else? A good yellow-purple user makes sense, and Nico fits in perfectly. Nico would tank blue for Kraven, and that's a good thing since she can true-heal, and produces protect tiles. The constant friendly tile buffing from Nico will be amazing all while Kraven is reducing enemy tile strength.

    Other teams?
  • AnonAnon Posts: 1,099 Chairperson of the Boards
    3/5/5/
    So, teams.
    Instantly I'm thinking of Carnage. Give the enemy team special tiles quickly to start Kraven's passive damage once they have 6. Mitigate the worst part about Carnage since Kraven will reduce the value of these enemy attack tiles.

    Of course Medusa would be obvious with these two, but who else? A good yellow-purple user makes sense, and Nico fits in perfectly. Nico would tank blue for Kraven, and that's a good thing since she can true-heal, and produces protect tiles. The constant friendly tile buffing from Nico will be amazing all while Kraven is reducing enemy tile strength.

    Other teams?
    For a 3*-4* transitioner, he could pair well with Patch. Lay down your strikes, and every turn your opponents strikes are weakened further and further.  
  • D4Ni13D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
    5/5/3
    His purple passive from in-game stats: 
    • 1 cover: at least 6 special tiles on the board, reduce all + damage
    • 2-3 covers: at least 5 special tiles on the board, reduce all + damage
    • 4-5 covers: at least 4 special tiles on the board, reduce all + damage

    His blue from in-game stats: 
    • He always makes 1 Trap tile, so there is no reason for the s in "places 1 Trap tile(s)", unless they plan to change it in the future... 
  • D4Ni13D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
    edited January 2018
    5/5/3
    So, teams.
    Instantly I'm thinking of Carnage. Give the enemy team special tiles quickly to start Kraven's passive damage once they have 6. Mitigate the worst part about Carnage since Kraven will reduce the value of these enemy attack tiles.

    Of course Medusa would be obvious with these two, but who else? A good yellow-purple user makes sense, and Nico fits in perfectly. Nico would tank blue for Kraven, and that's a good thing since she can true-heal, and produces protect tiles. The constant friendly tile buffing from Nico will be amazing all while Kraven is reducing enemy tile strength.

    Other teams?
    Well he will be played more as a counter than an actual hero that has a team around. So I expect Grocket + Gamora + Kraven or Grocket + Yondu + Kraven. A lot of overlap, yes, but this counters any competition of Grocket teams without Kraven. 

    Other good team IMO: X-23, X-Force Deadpool, and Kraven -  punishes opponent for inflicting more damage than the treshold and keeping them in check, while also regenerating the damage took. Interesting to see if Kraven's blue acts on any other trap tile or only his. If so, X-23 can help him, and also deal double damage on match. Don't think that would be the case though... 

    I think he would also work well with Sandman and another red user. Carnage would be ideal, for those who has him. Mockinbird ? She would help him gather strong color, but could also conflict with his black. 

    Kraven, Sandman & Venom would definitely be a node in future events. 
  • himatakohimatako Posts: 263 Mover and Shaker
    D4Ni13 said:
    himatako said:
    His purple screams Medusa/R&BabyG/Gamora counter, reducing all of them to 1 in a few turns while dealing damage. Can't wait to get him because I'm tired of seeing that team everywhere. 
    I still think you will see that team, even if Kraven would be a good counter. It also depends on what his health will be. If one can kill him in 3 turns with the team you mentioned, than it is no problem. Sure you might lose the strike tiles in the process, but Gamora can make other special tiles, so does Medusa. So having Kraven would not be enough. A combination of Kraven, Rogue, X-23, Thing, Deadpool, Luke Cage could work, but Kraven alone will not make that team disappear, especially if his other abilities are underwhelming. 

    You see, Grocket works because in the best case scenario he destroys the enemy team very fast, and in the worst case scenario, you would be playing normal. But for Kraven this will not apply. In his best case scenario, he will counter the strike tiles and reduce the first turns incoming damage. But in worst case scenario he will be stunned by Gamora, or simply killed first, which will have no effect in countering the team. 

    Other aspect of that team is Medusa. She is the number 1 priority. So she has to go down first. If you don't have a Grocket of your own, it is hard to kill her, and Kraven would not be able to take her down with his abilities. What team do you suggest using and how fast it would be ? Those are the factors that would count toward the disappearance of the current meta team, and I think we're a long shot from that still. 
    You're right. I doubt the team will go away but yeah I'm just happy we get another option to help counter that team. But I agree that he isn't enough to make them go away yet. That team is just too good :( 
  • zodiac339zodiac339 Posts: 1,946 Chairperson of the Boards
    5/5/3
    Huh, just realizing how stupidly annoying Kraven, Carnage, Venom will be. Both the enemy protect and attack tiles you provide will become essentially useless at the beginning of each turn with purple at 5. This means you don’t have to set Give and Take to 5. Normally, Venom is a 3/5/5 character, but if your gifted protect tiles immediately get reduced to 1, you can go 5/3/5 on Venom for close to 3 times the damage on Symbiotic Nick Fury. Nico will admittedly mess with this on the other side, but thankfully, she gets no benefit from the protects no matter how much she can buff them at the beginning of her turn, so kill her quick.
  • fight4thedreamfight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,174 Chairperson of the Boards
    Are those Team Affiliations right?
    I'd have thought he'd have:
    Villains, Sinister Six

    I admit I'm out of it comic lore wise in recent years, and I think he's done a wrestler-esque heel/face turn recently, but when was he ever an X-Man?
    His in-game stats correctly show Villains, Sinister Six. You are not the only one who found his affiliations on the forum page puzzling. 

    @Brigby As the Viceroy has pointed out, Kraven's Team Affiliation is incorrect. 

  • BrigbyBrigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    Are those Team Affiliations right?
    I'd have thought he'd have:
    Villains, Sinister Six

    I admit I'm out of it comic lore wise in recent years, and I think he's done a wrestler-esque heel/face turn recently, but when was he ever an X-Man?
    His in-game stats correctly show Villains, Sinister Six. You are not the only one who found his affiliations on the forum page puzzling. 

    Brigby As the Viceroy has pointed out, Kraven's Team Affiliation is incorrect. 

    Good catch! I've edited it so it correctly shows Villains and Sinister Six as his team affiliations
  • grannegranne Posts: 852 Critical Contributor
    Is there any chance you can edit the typo out of his name in the thread title, too @Brigby? My OCD and I would thank you greatly.
  • BrigbyBrigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    @granne Done!
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