Stupid event rewards - Petition

Bil

    Gilesclone said:

With Ixalan, it will be very interesting to see if they improve the rewards over the recent lame precedent of ToA, ToZ, HoR, and RotGP. Basic booster anyone?

   As far as I have seen the events rewards depend on legacy or standard format. Legacy event offer a guaranteed rare as progression reward while standard events offer crystals instead of it. Same goes for the ranking rewards (pinks in legacy but few ones, crystals in standard).
   I suppose the extensions that will remain standard will keep standard rewards. 

span_argoman

Bil said:

    Gilesclone said:

With Ixalan, it will be very interesting to see if they improve the rewards over the recent lame precedent of ToA, ToZ, HoR, and RotGP. Basic booster anyone?

   As far as I have seen the events rewards depend on legacy or standard format. Legacy event offer a guaranteed rare as progression reward while standard events offer crystals instead of it. Same goes for the ranking rewards (pinks in legacy but few ones, crystals in standard).
   I suppose the extensions that will remain standard will keep standard rewards. 

Hi Bil, I see you're fairly new to the forums. Welcome to the official forums and hope you will find useful information here.

You are right in that the rewards depend on whether the event is a Standard or Legacy event. Why this is the case requires a short history lesson of MtGPQ and some guesswork on our part since the rationale was never officially stated.

Initially after they introduced Standard to the game, there were no Legacy events except for TG, TotP and Quick Battle. Then Quick Battle was removed too so there was little use left for Legacy cards.

Players clamoured for a rewarding means of playing with their Legacy cards. So the developers brought back Legacy PvP events. The prizes being all Runes, Legacy cards and a little bit of Jewels was imo to prevent the introduction of these additional events from distorting rewards too much.

If they rewarded Crystals, players might feel obliged to play it to earn what is the primary currency for obtaining new Standard cards in this game, pitting them right against the horrific decks which Standard was introduced to get rid of.

On the other hand, Jewels are still valuable to veteran players and hence it still works as an event reward. The progression Rare is there as a sweetener for Platinum players, whereas the other tiers still get a Legacy booster pack as their final Progression reward tier.

Why could they afford to be more generous with the final Progression tier for Legacy events? My guess is that without it and if you can't place well in the event (which is difficult to if you don't already have a sizeable collection of Legacy cards), then the overall rewards for the event aren't that attractive. It's the lure for players who aren't playing Legacy events for the sake of having a stage for their OP cards.

That and Legacy cards are limited in the events they can be used in so the proliferation of people possessing more Legacy power cards isn't as big a concern for the overall game experience which is more focused on Standard.

So it's interesting to see people zero in on this particular reward tier (Guaranteed Rare) and ask for it to be replicated in Standard PvP events, with some even insinuating that Standard events have terrible rewards and hence needing this all-so-important fix.

Sirchombli

Bfz is a giant, gaping hole in my collection. I have all of the rares from every other set save for soi, which I'm missing 2 of. Bfz, however, I'm missing 20 of. I also have exactly zero mythics from bfz. I'm all for anything that ups my chances of filling in gaps and lowering my chances of getting another oath of Chandra. That card is starting to feel like a door prize with how often I get it. 

Marvaddin

span_argoman said:

Bil said:

    Gilesclone said:

With Ixalan, it will be very interesting to see if they improve the rewards over the recent lame precedent of ToA, ToZ, HoR, and RotGP. Basic booster anyone?

   As far as I have seen the events rewards depend on legacy or standard format. Legacy event offer a guaranteed rare as progression reward while standard events offer crystals instead of it. Same goes for the ranking rewards (pinks in legacy but few ones, crystals in standard).
   I suppose the extensions that will remain standard will keep standard rewards. 

Hi Bil, I see you're fairly new to the forums. Welcome to the official forums and hope you will find useful information here.

You are right in that the rewards depend on whether the event is a Standard or Legacy event. Why this is the case requires a short history lesson of MtGPQ and some guesswork on our part since the rationale was never officially stated.

Initially after they introduced Standard to the game, there were no Legacy events except for TG, TotP and Quick Battle. Then Quick Battle was removed too so there was little use left for Legacy cards.

Players clamoured for a rewarding means of playing with their Legacy cards. So the developers brought back Legacy PvP events. The prizes being all Runes, Legacy cards and a little bit of Jewels was imo to prevent the introduction of these additional events from distorting rewards too much.

If they rewarded Crystals, players might feel obliged to play it to earn what is the primary currency for obtaining new Standard cards in this game, pitting them right against the horrific decks which Standard was introduced to get rid of.

On the other hand, Jewels are still valuable to veteran players and hence it still works as an event reward. The progression Rare is there as a sweetener for Platinum players, whereas the other tiers still get a Legacy booster pack as their final Progression reward tier.

Why could they afford to be more generous with the final Progression tier for Legacy events? My guess is that without it and if you can't place well in the event (which is difficult to if you don't already have a sizeable collection of Legacy cards), then the overall rewards for the event aren't that attractive. It's the lure for players who aren't playing Legacy events for the sake of having a stage for their OP cards.

That and Legacy cards are limited in the events they can be used in so the proliferation of people possessing more Legacy power cards isn't as big a concern for the overall game experience which is more focused on Standard.

So it's interesting to see people zero in on this particular reward tier (Guaranteed Rare) and ask for it to be replicated in Standard PvP events, with some even insinuating that Standard events have terrible rewards and hence needing this all-so-important fix.

Lol, what imaginative ideas! Let me see if I understand... If the legacy events reward crystals, players might feel obliged to play, this to get the said crystals and buy standard cards? Hmmm, dunno. Looks like the standard events are already giving standard boosters as rewards (and MORE crystals), so unless time is not something to consider and you will play all events anyway, if you aim at standard cards, standard events are going to be more profitable.

Also, the proliferation of people possessing more standard cards doesn't seem to be a big concern, too, otherwise, the booster craft thing wouldn't become real. Even why, to afford those standard much more expensive cards, my bet is that the players getting them aren't the beginners. In fact, the lack of rares for progression in standard events is making harder to weak people get them, while the strong ones already have most of them, and are now crafting mythics. Will this affect game experience, huh?

I'm not even going to discuss how jewels are more relevant than crystals to some of the whales, as they have an almost complet mythic collection and aim at master pieces. It's... funny how you think these events have great rewards. Well, maybe you are right, as it looks like standard events are more played. To me, it's still non-sense, and I guess if this is not because of those prizes going up to top 1000. I enter these events too, and I get something for NOT playing, while I play the ones that have more interesting rewards.

Anyway, thanks for your contribution, [redacted / bk].

span_argoman

Hahaha what an amusing reply.

Marvaddin said:

Lol, what imaginative ideas! Let me see if I understand... If the legacy events reward crystals, players might feel obliged to play, this to get the said crystals and buy standard cards? Hmmm, dunno. Looks like the standard events are already giving standard boosters as rewards (and MORE crystals), so unless time is not something to consider and you will play all events anyway, if you aim at standard cards, standard events are going to be more profitable.

Yup you understood correctly. Crystals are the fastest way to collect new cards from a new set until you have opened a significant proportion of the set. So giving Crystals in Legacy events would create an incentive for players to play them to earn Crystals which would more likely go towards being spent on Standard cards.

Bearing in mind that the developers then were not interested in increasing rewards, giving Legacy cards or boosters which are unusable in the other 2-3 PvP events which are the ones giving out the bulk of Crystals worked to keep it separate from Standard while still providing rewards for players who were interested in playing Legacy events.

Was it a concern that Legacy events would be more attractive to play than Standard events? I doubt that was anywhere of a concern. Could there be a concern that the addition of a new Legacy PvP event might feel like a must-play if it awarded Crystals? My 'imaginative' mind says probably.

Also, the proliferation of people possessing more standard cards doesn't seem to be a big concern, too, otherwise, the booster craft thing wouldn't become real.

You're mixing up things here. The implemented version of Booster Crafting was done by Oktagon. The reintroduction of Legacy events was done by Hibernum. Hibernum's version of Booster Crafting was described to have Legacy cards converted into a separate crafting currency from Standard cards. So Legacy + Origins dupes only for crafting Legacy cards, Standard cards (minus Origins) dupes for crafting Standard cards.

The way Oktagon has implemented Booster Crafting has torpedo-ed that distinction between Legacy and Standard events. Now Orbs are simply Orbs, whether they used to be Standard or Legacy dupes before becoming Orbs. Now Legacy events do contribute to one getting a stronger Standard collection.

Regardless whether it was intentional of Oktagon to change the incentives for Legacy events like that, I don't see people complaining about that aspect.

Even why, to afford those standard much more expensive cards, my bet is that the players getting them aren't the beginners. In fact, the lack of rares for progression in standard events is making harder to weak people get them, while the strong ones already have most of them, and are now crafting mythics. Will this affect game experience, huh?

I'm sorry for totally missing what point you're trying to get at with this. Are you just ranting that people who perform better in events get nicer rewards like a guaranteed Rare? Or is this a doomsday post about the weak staying weak while the strong get stronger due to Booster Crafting? Either way, you really could better substantiate your point.

I'm not even going to discuss how jewels are more relevant than crystals to some of the whales, as they have an almost complet mythic collection and aim at master pieces. It's... funny how you think these events have great rewards. Well, maybe you are right, as it looks like standard events are more played. To me, it's still non-sense, and I guess if this is not because of those prizes going up to top 1000. I enter these events too, and I get something for NOT playing, while I play the ones that have more interesting rewards.

Let me see if I understand... you are saying that I am saying that Standard events provide better rewards than Legacy events. And you are incredulous that I am saying that despite Jewels being more valuable to veterans (I'm saying veterans because not all players with near complete collections are whales). And that's nonsense to you because Standard brackets go up to 1,000 players.

But wait, you started your post claiming that Standard events are more rewarding in earning Standard cards as if it were a counterpoint to what I was saying. So maybe you are saying that I am saying that Legacy events provide better rewards than Standard events. But that doesn't follow the bit about Jewels being more valuable to veterans or the part where you say that maybe I'm right as Standard events are played more.

Did you just shoot yourself in the foot?

Bil

Overall I think it's cool enough to offer a guaranteed rare in the legacy event... It's still a rare you get without too much effort... The main point remains changing this ogw rare for a bfz rare... 

Marvaddin

I'm happy you are amused. [redacted / bk].
Congratz, you made my day. Please continue.

span_argoman said:

Hahaha what an amusing reply.

Marvaddin said:

Lol, what imaginative ideas! Let me see if I understand... If the legacy events reward crystals, players might feel obliged to play, this to get the said crystals and buy standard cards? Hmmm, dunno. Looks like the standard events are already giving standard boosters as rewards (and MORE crystals), so unless time is not something to consider and you will play all events anyway, if you aim at standard cards, standard events are going to be more profitable.

Yup you understood correctly. Crystals are the fastest way to collect new cards from a new set until you have opened a significant proportion of the set. So giving Crystals in Legacy events would create an incentive for players to play them to earn Crystals which would more likely go towards being spent on Standard cards. Standard events give boosters + crystals, so unless you have time to play all, you will play standard events more.

Bearing in mind that the developers then were not interested in increasing rewards, giving Legacy cards or boosters which are unusable in the other 2-3 PvP events which are the ones giving out the bulk of Crystals worked to keep it separate from Standard while still providing rewards for players who were interested in playing Legacy events.

Was it a concern that Legacy events would be more attractive to play than Standard events? I doubt that was anywhere of a concern. Could there be a concern that the addition of a new Legacy PvP event might feel like a must-play if it awarded Crystals? My 'imaginative' mind says probably. Why, [redacted / bk], would people be more inclined to play legacy events than standard ones, if their goal is to get standard cards AND their time is limited, forcing then to choose (as I stated previously, this is not something to consider, for those that have time to play all events)? Also, if the crystals excess is a concern to devs, don't they have other ways to solve it, like removing crystals from daily rewards? If is there a real reason to have legacy and standard events having separated rewards, and that couldn't be balanced in another way, I would like your imagination to come with it.

Also, the proliferation of people possessing more standard cards doesn't seem to be a big concern, too, otherwise, the booster craft thing wouldn't become real.

You're mixing up things here. The implemented version of Booster Crafting was done by Oktagon. The reintroduction of Legacy events was done by Hibernum. Hibernum's version of Booster Crafting was described to have Legacy cards converted into a separate crafting currency from Standard cards. So Legacy + Origins dupes only for crafting Legacy cards, Standard cards (minus Origins) dupes for crafting Standard cards.

The way Oktagon has implemented Booster Crafting has torpedo-ed that distinction between Legacy and Standard events. Now Orbs are simply Orbs, whether they used to be Standard or Legacy dupes before becoming Orbs. Now Legacy events do contribute to one getting a stronger Standard collection.

Regardless whether it was intentional of Oktagon to change the incentives for Legacy events like that, I don't see people complaining about that aspect.

You are the one mixing things. Have I said I care about Hibernum? Is it to Hibernum I have started a petition to change some event rewards? It's your imagination, I guess. If Hibernum once had concerns and intended to make standard cards harder to get, looks like these are no more and there is nothing wrong about suggesting more cards through events. Although previously I was just showing some fails in your theory (like the "must-play" thing, unless you have unlimited time), I was never interested in discussing the past. You were the one starting a "history lesson" about something you don't know (reasoning about event rewards).

Even why, to afford those standard much more expensive cards, my bet is that the players getting them aren't the beginners. In fact, the lack of rares for progression in standard events is making harder to weak people get them, while the strong ones already have most of them, and are now crafting mythics. Will this affect game experience, huh?

I'm sorry for totally missing what point you're trying to get at with this. Are you just ranting that people who perform better in events get nicer rewards like a guaranteed Rare? Of course not, as I suggested to extend it to standard events. Or is this a doomsday post about the weak staying weak while the strong get stronger due to Booster Crafting? Either way, you really could better substantiate your point.

Did your imagination fail you? I will try to draw it. This is from your first post:

"That and Legacy cards are limited in the events they can be used in so the proliferation of people possessing more Legacy power cards isn't as big a concern for the overall game experience which is more focused on Standard."

You talk that legacy cards proliferation isn't a concern as if you had a point, but you don't. Standard cards are already proliferating a lot in the hands of the resourceful players, may be by booster buying, crafting, or rewards. The event rare for progression is a main source of cards mostly to poor players, as for the rich guys, it's just a little portion of what they get. Removing it will affect which players more? Can you guess? You talked about a game experience focused on standard. Can you measure how frustrating to newbies is to focus on standard as they don't get even a rare per event? Is that rare that will change the game experience for you, who is probably sitting at a 1300+ collection? Why not allow it? Too much doomsday for ya? I may be asking for too much. Standard rewards are already great. Better not change your game experience.

)'m not even going to discuss how jewels are more relevant than crystals to some of the whales, as they have an almost complet mythic collection and aim at master pieces. It's... funny how you think these events have great rewards. Well, maybe you are right, as it looks like standard events are more played. To me, it's still non-sense, and I guess if this is not because of those prizes going up to top 1000. I enter these events too, and I get something for NOT playing, while I play the ones that have more interesting rewards.

Let me see if I understand... you are saying that I am saying that Standard events provide better rewards than Legacy events. I said you said standard events have rewards that are good enough. By what you said, anyone can assume that. And you are incredulous that I am saying that despite Jewels being more valuable to veterans (I'm saying veterans because not all players with near complete collections are whales). And that's nonsense to you because Standard brackets go up to 1,000 players. I'm not incredulous, but to me is non-sense because my first goal is to improve my collection (as yours, probably), and Trial of Ambition rewards aren't gettting the job done. Why should I actually play? I have limited time and will play something that have better rewards. I still enter the event, and get some free rewards for clicking enter button.

But wait, you started your post claiming that Standard events are more rewarding in earning Standard cards as if it were a counterpoint to what I was saying. This is simple. Legacy events (if had crystals awarded): crystals + legacy cards; standard events: crystals + standard cards. So come with an imaginative answer about why would anyone aiming at standard cards choose legacy events if he/she had to choose. So maybe you are saying that I am saying that Legacy events provide better rewards than Standard events. No, you never compared them. Looks like you think the rewards should be different, using "not-so-reasonable" reasons above. ****, if you ask me. If 2 years ago there were such concerns, they are no more. But that doesn't follow the bit about Jewels being more valuable to veterans or the part where you say that maybe I'm right as Standard events are played more.
C'mon, I AM THE ONE saying that legacy events have better rewards, and politely asking Oktagon to change these standard events that I feel are absolutely uninteresting. This is not what you said, this is what I said. About standard events being more played, to me it's because the longer range of rewards, the ones you get for free, or almost. Let me refresh it to you: events with rewards up to #3000 will have more people entering them, I'm not sure about being really played. Is it better for ya?

Did you just shoot yourself in the foot? Prove it, [redacted / bk]. Imagine a way to prove I was contradicting myself. I will probably laugh at your try.

Volrak

I'm always interested in reading opinions on the state of the game, but this thread has lost the plot and makes for pretty awful reading.  The topic is not proving that someone else is a dill (even if it was true - it's clearly not), whether here or in any other thread.

Personally, with limited time I don't play many legacy events.  I probably still wouldn't play NoP regularly if it offered BFZ rares, though I think that would be a positive change for the game.

Marvaddin

History lessons of guessing aside, I believe that the thread had a good purpose, but maybe it is useless, as looks like that, IF it happens that changing event rewards is something on the schedule, it most probably has a really low priority. Dunno how many and which Hibernum things Oktagon plans to change, but I will let the guessing for those that are imaginative, like my friend above. In fact, I believe that changing rewards doesn't demand too much work from dev team, but Ixalan coming (and maybe other things) surely does. Priority.

The point about BFZ- OGW in Nodes of Power seems to have more people that agree with it, and the one about Trial of Ambition having awful rewards seems to demand more discussion. Anyway, if this one have degenerated into "awful reading", any mod feel free to close.

bk1234

[MOD MIC ON] Please refrain from insulting other players. This is a topic that many of us feel passionately about, keeping the discussion constructive, even when we are in disagreement with each other allows us to better explore this idea and present solutions to make MTGPQ better -- further insults in this thread will result in warnings, points and / or jail time.  [//MOD MIC]

span_argoman

I realised I never commented on the original intention of this topic. I too think it would be nice if NoP's guaranteed Rare was changed to a BFZ Rare instead. There wasn't a BFZ PvP event so it's the only Legacy set that lacks a corresponding PvP event. If they could create a new PvP event for BFZ that would be even nicer but it would probably be really low on the priority list.

I also apologise to contributing to the thread being less constructive than it could be. And while I did not get offended by the previous posts, I understand there are better ways to handle these matters.

As for replying to Marvaddin,

Standard events give boosters + crystals, so unless you have time to play all, you will play standard events more.

Why, [redacted / bk], would people be more inclined to play legacy events than standard ones, if their goal is to get standard cards AND their time is limited, forcing then to choose (as I stated previously, this is not something to consider, for those that have time to play all events)? Also, if the crystals excess is a concern to devs, don't they have other ways to solve it, like removing crystals from daily rewards? If is there a real reason to have legacy and standard events having separated rewards, and that couldn't be balanced in another way, I would like your imagination to come with it.

...

I said you said standard events have rewards that are good enough. By what you said, anyone can assume that.

I'm not incredulous, but to me is non-sense because my first goal is to improve my collection (as yours, probably), and Trial of Ambition rewards aren't getting the job done. Why should I actually play? I have limited time and will play something that have better rewards. I still enter the event, and get some free rewards for clicking enter button.

...

This is simple. Legacy events (if had crystals awarded): crystals + legacy cards; standard events: crystals + standard cards. So come with an imaginative answer about why would anyone aiming at standard cards choose legacy events if he/she had to choose.

Not really. Once you have all the commons and uncommons, Standard or Legacy booster barely makes a difference to completing your collection. They're primarily Orbs at that point. You have a 23% chance per booster to get a Rare+ and a 5% chance to get a Mythic+. Chances are a player at that stage has a significant number of the Rares too so the actual chances of getting a new card from a booster isn't that great.

And you see where you confuse me is that on one hand you're chiding me for saying that Standard events have acceptable rewards. On the other hand, you are saying that people who want to improve their collection would be better off playing Standard events. But if Standard event rewards are so terrible, then that would not make sense. For it to make sense, the rewards from Standard events would at least have to be comparable to Legacy events.

If you don't see the contradiction in what you are saying at the point, it's fine. Then I don't see a need to waste any more time and effort discussing this.

And suggesting to remove Crystals from Daily Rewards so that it can be put into Legacy event rewards is a terrible idea. I hope no explanation is necessary as to why that is so.

This is from your first post:
"That and Legacy cards are limited in the events they can be used in so the proliferation of people possessing more Legacy power cards isn't as big a concern for the overall game experience which is more focused on Standard."

You talk that legacy cards proliferation isn't a concern as if you had a point, but you don't. Standard cards are already proliferating a lot in the hands of the resourceful players, may be by booster buying, crafting, or rewards. The event rare for progression is a main source of cards mostly to poor players, as for the rich guys, it's just a little portion of what they get. Removing it will affect which players more? Can you guess? You talked about a game experience focused on standard. Can you measure how frustrating to newbies is to focus on standard as they don't get even a rare per event? Is that rare that will change the game experience for you, who is probably sitting at a 1300+ collection? Why not allow it? Too much doomsday for ya? I may be asking for too much. Standard rewards are already great. Better not change your game experience.

I'm not bothered to do the math for you when there are so many other points which have not gotten across. You take a Platinum-tier only Progression reward (and the final tier too) and say that it is the main source of new cards for poor players. You say it as if Legacy events are the only source of guaranteed Rares. Well there are 2 ways of earning a Standard guaranteed Rare excluding individual rankings and I'll leave it to you to discover them.

Can I imagine how frustrating it is for newer players to play an event and not get a Rare out of it? Yes. I run a casual coalition. Not everyone in there is Platinum. Not everyone in there has an amazing collection. Not everyone in there has the time to play all the events. Which is all the more why those of us who care about the game and the people we play it with try to work out for the others what's the best way to try to progress, instead of just making suggestions without thinking about all the factors involved.

C'mon, I AM THE ONE saying that legacy events have better rewards, and politely asking Oktagon to change these standard events that I feel are absolutely uninteresting. This is not what you said, this is what I said. About standard events being more played, to me it's because the longer range of rewards, the ones you get for free, or almost. Let me refresh it to you: events with rewards up to #3000 will have more people entering them, I'm not sure about being really played. Is it better for ya?

Yeah that makes it clear. I think you have a misconception here. The Standard brackets going up to 1,000 or 3,000 players isn't because more players are participating in Standard events. It's because the developers have set the brackets in each event to be capped at that number. Meaning to say if there are 5,000 players (of the same Colour Mastery tier) playing say NoP, there would be 20 brackets of NoP with 250 players each. On the other hand, in Trial of Ambition, those 5,000 players would be split into 5 brackets of 1,000.

The bracket size has nothing to do with how many players are entering them, it has to do with how scarce the developers want to make the top ranking rewards. So for all we know, more players play Legacy events than Standard ones or vice versa. The bracket sizes say nothing about it.

You are the one mixing things. Have I said I care about Hibernum? Is it to Hibernum I have started a petition to change some event rewards? It's your imagination, I guess. If Hibernum once had concerns and intended to make standard cards harder to get, looks like these are no more and there is nothing wrong about suggesting more cards through events. Although previously I was just showing some fails in your theory (like the "must-play" thing, unless you have unlimited time), I was never interested in discussing the past. You were the one starting a "history lesson" about something you don't know (reasoning about event rewards).

...

So maybe you are saying that I am saying that Legacy events provide better rewards than Standard events. No, you never compared them. Looks like you think the rewards should be different, using "not-so-reasonable" reasons above. tinykitty, if you ask me. If 2 years ago there were such concerns, they are no more.

Sigh, I get your point. Because the new developers are nice to us and have given us more stuff, we can now try our luck and ask for even more stuff. Nothing in the past matters and so post-event analysis is a waste of time. Why bother checking facts and going beyond the surface level. Welcome to the age of post-truths.

bk1234

[MOD MIC ON] Continued off-top discussion in this thread will cause it to be closed. Please stay on topic of the original post Thank you [//MOD MIC]