Which ability is better? Avengers Assemble or Gamma Powerbomb

Daredevil217

So MEH Hulk is seen as a mostly garbage character but his purple is getting a lot of love. Pricy sure, but devestating when he hits you with FIVE crits!  Made me think about Nick Fury who even post rework doesn’t get much love. People rave about his Demolition but is his yellow being overlooked?

At 5 covers (unboosted):

The Hulk for 14 AP gives:
- 3500 single target damage
-  5 critical tiles

Nick Fury for 10 AP gives:
- 2200 damage to main the target
- 750 damage to each additional target
- 3 critical tiles
- 2 strength 65 protect tiles
- Stuns the target 2 turns

So just curious which one you like better? I personally like Fury’s as the stun is guaranteed but the extra 2 crits can be just as easily used against you. I like the lower cost of Fury’s and the fact that it is a Yellow power (I think Purple is in general more powerful in the tier). I don’t know what Fury looks like boosted compared to Hulk yet but going off unboosted Numbers, Fury gets the nod. 

Sandmaker

Personally I'd argue Nick's Yellow is in the running for the best yellow active in the game right now, maybe even one of the best stuns in the game.

I just don't really like the rest of this abilities. His kit as a whole is fairly expensive, there's no synergy, and he doesn't have a passive, which is almost a prerequisite to be even considered these days. Although to be fair, two of these can be said about MEH Hulk as well.

Jarvind

Gamma Powerbomb (The Hulk)

Depends who you're using them with. If you're rolling with 5* teammates, crit tiles are absolutely devastating, so MEHulk wins, even with the high cost. 

If you're in 4* territory and below, Nick is the clear winner since he'll provide AOE and stun.

Jaedenkaal

Daredevil217 said:

 I don’t know what Fury looks like boosted compared to Hulk yet but going off unboosted Numbers, Fury gets the nod. 

As always, boosted to the same level the numbers will be the same ratio. Boosted to whatever level hulk does 7000 damage, Fury would do 4400 single target, 1500 team, and create S 130 Protect tiles. I'm assuming your numbers are correct, I haven't bothered to test.

As to your poll, I'm not sure I can answer that without getting Hulk champed and play with him a lot more than I have. Even if Avengers Assembled is better, I never use Fury unless he's required.

As a team up I'd almost certainly prefer Avengers Assembled primarily because it's cheaper (ok, the stun helps)

aa25

Avengers Assemble (Nick Fury)

MEH's purple is way too expensive. For a 14 ap power, I would expect something closer to 'I win' button. But the power itself is way too random for my test.

Fury's yellow now cost only 10. Not cheap, but not too expensive either. I like it better as a power to set up the flow to win the match and it does the job quite well too.

Jaedenkaal

aa25 said:

MEH's purple is way too expensive. For a 14 ap power, I would expect something closer to 'I win' button. But the power itself is way too random for my test.

Fury's yellow now cost only 10. Not cheap, but not too expensive either. I like it better as a power to set up the flow to win the match and it does the job quite well too.

Yes, it technically matches up poorly against super whales. I'm not sure that's the point here. It's certainly better than the other 14 AP powers in the 4* tier, namely Dive Bomb and System Shock.

And the cascade potential of 5 critical tiles can approach an "I Win". Random, yes, although more likely than the 3 crit tiles you get from Avenger's Assemble. 

AA costing 4 less and having a 2 turn stun is clearly the difference here, and its why I'd (tentatively) give it the edge, all other things being equal. 

Daredevil217

Avengers Assemble (Nick Fury)

Jaedenkaal said:

Daredevil217 said:

 I don’t know what Fury looks like boosted compared to Hulk yet but going off unboosted Numbers, Fury gets the nod. 

As always, boosted to the same level the numbers will be the same ratio. Boosted to whatever level hulk does 7000 damage, Fury would do 4400 single target, 1500 team, and create S 130 Protect tiles. I'm assuming your numbers are correct, I haven't bothered to test.

As to your poll, I'm not sure I can answer that without getting Hulk champed and play with him a lot more than I have. Even if Avengers Assembled is better, I never use Fury unless he's required.

As a team up I'd almost certainly prefer Avengers Assembled primarily because it's cheaper (ok, the stun helps)

I got my numbers from the last post in Fury’s thread. A poster there ran some tests.

Something tells me Hulk will be a play only when required character too so I feel that’s a wash.

Fury is my second most recent champ (Kate is most recent) and his boost is likely coming up soon so I’ll get to try him boosted for the first time which should be fun.

Jaedenkaal

Daredevil217 said:
I got my numbers from the last post in Fury’s thread. A poster there ran some tests.

Something tells me Hulk will be a play only when required character too so I feel that’s a wash.

Fury is my second most recent champ (Kate is most recent) and his boost is likely coming up soon so I’ll get to try him boosted for the first time which should be fun.

Hah. That might have been me. And yeah, you're probably right about MEH's playability. 

Also worth mentioning that AA is in Fury's strongest color, while GPB is NOT in Hulk's strongest color, so abilities that generate AP in your strongest color (Secret Mission, Uncanny Strategist, Energy Manipulation) can fuel AA, but not GPB, unless you bring someone else with a strong purple

aa25

Avengers Assemble (Nick Fury)

Jaedenkaal said:

aa25 said:

MEH's purple is way too expensive. For a 14 ap power, I would expect something closer to 'I win' button. But the power itself is way too random for my test.

Fury's yellow now cost only 10. Not cheap, but not too expensive either. I like it better as a power to set up the flow to win the match and it does the job quite well too.

Yes, it technically matches up poorly against super whales. I'm not sure that's the point here. It's certainly better than the other 14 AP powers in the 4* tier, namely Dive Bomb and System Shock.

And the cascade potential of 5 critical tiles can approach an "I Win". Random, yes, although more likely than the 3 crit tiles you get from Avenger's Assemble. 

AA costing 4 less and having a 2 turn stun is clearly the difference here, and its why I'd (tentatively) give it the edge, all other things being equal. 

I didn't mean mega-whale when I said 'I win' button. More like a power that, when you fire, you put yourself in an upper-hande situation.

Chasing 14 ap to fire a power that doesn't even guarantee the outcome doesn't look good, imo. And yeah, Flappy's and Jessica's red are as worse, but different reason though.

Fury's yellow is more versatile. Chasing 10 ap, to set up your game is more reasonable than 14 cp for random outcome. (I think Fury's yellow is a bit too expensive still, honestly)

Just wanna add more details.

hopper1979

Both are underrated.  I have been campaigning for Furry since the update with the change to traps yellow is by far his best power now.   Fury is a top glass cannon character now and his yellow is top 3 stuns in the game.  Hulk's yellow is nothing to sneeze at either but I would have to give the edge to Furry for the control aspect of his yellow power, even though damage wise I think Hulks yellow is more constant, even with its random effect component.  Hulk is going work beautifully on very specific teams Furry can be brought on any team who needs a good yellow or blue, his pink is solid now but I would take Hulk if you wanted a pink option.

Jaedenkaal

aa25 said:

I didn't mean mega-whale when I said 'I win' button. More like a power that, when you fire, you put yourself in an upper-hande situation.

Chasing 14 ap to fire a power that doesn't even guarantee the outcome doesn't look good, imo. And yeah, Flappy's and Jessica's red are as worse, but different reason though.

Fury's yellow is more versatile. Chasing 10 ap, to set up your game is more reasonable than 14 cp for random outcome. (I think Fury's yellow is a bit too expensive still, honestly)

Just wanna add more details.

I didn't assume you did, but, it's still a fine comparison since Whales! also happens to be a Purple ability that costs 14 AP.

I disagree with your second point; the reason why all three of those abilities aren't stellar is -because- they cost 14.

aa25

Avengers Assemble (Nick Fury)

Jaedenkaal said:

aa25 said:

I didn't mean mega-whale when I said 'I win' button. More like a power that, when you fire, you put yourself in an upper-hande situation.

Chasing 14 ap to fire a power that doesn't even guarantee the outcome doesn't look good, imo. And yeah, Flappy's and Jessica's red are as worse, but different reason though.

Fury's yellow is more versatile. Chasing 10 ap, to set up your game is more reasonable than 14 cp for random outcome. (I think Fury's yellow is a bit too expensive still, honestly)

Just wanna add more details.

I didn't assume you did, but, it's still a fine comparison since Whales! also happens to be a Purple ability that costs 14 AP.

I disagree with your second point; the reason why all three of those abilities aren't stellar is -because- they cost 14.

Look like I'm failed at communication today. LoL.

My second point on that is that those two powers cost 14 AP which is bad already, then:

Flappy's red: You need a lot of set up to make it worthwhile. Once you get the set up right, it's straight off overkilled in most case. The only non-overkilled is when you pick a fight with a boosted 4* or unboosted 5* with an unboosted Flappy, but there are obviously better options for that matter.

Jessica's red: Jack-of-all-trade that doesn't really help you win the game that worth 14 ap. The main and the splash damage is too low to do anything. The stun is okay-ish. (Although, I just ate a handful of ouch from Jessica+Gambat.)

MEH's purple: Unpredictable. Worst case ? It gives your opponent a cascade potential including crit tiles. That is no good! A power this expensive shouldn't have this risk factor in it.

Edit: If MEH's purple would be cheaper, (say 9-10 ap ?) I can see an appeal of high-risk high rewards type of gameplays. But 14 ? Nope. This power is terrible.

Jaedenkaal

I think that "worst case" is pretty unlikely, although I'll reserve my final judgement until I can play with it with at least 4 covers. I seriously doubt you'll add 5 Critical tiles to the board, not get a cascade, AND end up with a board state where you can't at least make a critical-match-4 or a critical-double-match-3 particularly often.

Overall I don't think its any riskier than Smite in terms of leaving your opponent with an advantage. (No, I don't think it's as good as Smite)

hopper1979

If all 5 crits match and you have a 5 toon making those matches you can almost 1 shoot a 5's and you will down any 4, that is about as good of a stun as you can get.  I have had Fury do 20K unboosted after popping his yellow when all crits match, he only makes 3 crits, would I like the stun you describe, yes but it might break the power.  Also pink is an easier color to accelerate with certain teammates which is my one complaint against the new Hulk, he is a little too niche to be a great character.  

Jaedenkaal

Well, I think it's less likely to be complete overkill than Dive Bomb, since the potential match-5 and cascade damage can spill over onto other characters. Plus, if that happens, you'll get a bunch of AP. 

Jaedenkaal

Uh, well, I don't hate him per se, but I don't use him either (even this week when he's boosted). His abilities are mostly fine, but the package doesn't add up to something I want.

The Protect tiles are... fine, not that spending 9 AP and only getting Protect tiles is ever very exciting. Also, since all the tiles he makes are Yellow, they get matched away more quickly than you'd think (nearly every time anyone makes a Yellow match, in fact)

The tile buffing is... ok, but also not very exciting. Obviously unless you bring someone else to make some, he's only buffing his own Protect tiles. Also on his own he doesn't benefit from reducing the timers on countdown tiles, so you'd have to bring someone else for that as well. That list is pretty short, as they have to be characters that make (preferably non-blue) CDs that you want to expire as quickly as possible. At a quick glance that would be (from the 4* tier) Coulson, R&G, Fury, Mockingbird, War Machine (sort of), Kingpin, Vulture, and Main Event. Some decent members on that list, but the best are either already on teams with no room for a 3rd member, or have a painful overlap in colors. I guess Mockingbird could work out; I'd take a free Dive Bomb any day. (I'd cry a little if it took out someone with 900 health, of course)

And Dive Bomb. The problem with Dive Bomb is that by the time you finally get 14 Red AP (which he doesn't accelerate in any way) AND a bunch of Protect tiles out (potentially by spending 9 Yellow AP, which he ALSO doesn't accelerate in any way), the match is easily half over, everyone's probably taken a bunch of damage already, and you just don't need to do 20,000 damage (40,000 if he's boosted) to anyone, so you'd probably have been better off with a cheaper power that does less damage. It'd be a fantastic power if it did half the damage for 7 AP, for example, on par with Army of One without the annoying "your allies must be downed or stunned" rider.

There are just too many Red abilities that do enough damage (less, but still enough), for a significantly lower AP cost, and many of them actually (gasp) generate AP in some way. Bombshell, Oldest Trick in the Book, Smite, RC Gauntlets, heck, even Cherry Bomb.

hopper1979

Hulk is definitely nich but he can pack one heck of a punch between his yellow or pink but you need a feeder for him to shine.  See above for all the issues with Falcap. 

I think the strength of the new Hulk comes from his green and the cascade potential from his green but again you need to pair him with the right people to benefit from that.  His pink is still fairly unique, very strong but expensive, there are very few characters who generate critical tiles and this makes him dangerous.  You might have noticed they have nurfed the lvl 1 spider man, he can now only generate 2 as opposed to a max of 4.  Crits can be devastating especially on a team that generates specif color tiles, this is why C&D is a great partner for Fury, get C&D generating yellow and then pop Fury's yellow and you have a great chance of the crits matching in 4 and 5 match and doing serious damage.  

Falcap is a 1 trick pony this Hulk is a little more flexable but until more people get him maxed most of us are speculating, I know I am.  I am still convinced Lockjaw will be good when I finally level him and the forums say differently

aa25

Avengers Assemble (Nick Fury)

@Jaedenkaal sums up Flappy's issue very nicely.


Flappy used to have a nice combo with Ghost Rider until the repeater tile comes around.

Flappy still has a weird, niche, combo with SW and MnMag (SW makes purple with her blue cd fuel MnMag to make more blue and Red to fuel, eventually, Flappy's red while he speed up SW with his passive). Frankly, there are better choices out there.

I'm actually quite a fan of him in comic, but his kit in this game is just a mess.

Anon

Gamma Powerbomb (The Hulk)

4* Falcons main problems are that his Red is expensive and his Blue is trash.

I've said it before on other threads. All Falcon needs is for his blue to be his 3* skill with Redwing returning Yellow and Red AP. Boom, instant boost in usefulness.

Or make Red cheaper. Whatever.

Rick_OShay

The main question is hard to answer prior to the main player base having MEHulk champed. 
Like hopper, I'm a bigger fan of Fury and MEHulk (1/4/5 lvl209) than most so far. 
As with other new characters, the powers on paper often do no justice to what you will see in action. Hulk's purple is too expensive I agree:

However, his passive tile swap WILL align purple (and yellow) matches for you more often than he takes them away.
His yellow CD's earn random AP, some of which is very likely to be purple. 
It does take a while to build up to firing Gamma Powerbomb, so I typically use it to down an enemy from the guaranteed damage component, then all the crit damage will be hitting the next enemy. 
When this happens you are also certainly guaranteed to gain a bunch of AP from the board exploding from all of those crits. Out of probably 30 times, I've had only one occasion where no matches were made from the 5 crits. Had to screen cap that, ha. Naturally there were 2 different match-4's to choose from that included a crit, so the enemy got one decent hit out of it.  

I'm a fan of Fury's AA too, so since these two abilities are on different colors it's hard to directly compare. I don't think it's fair to rate a power on what it can do with allies from a higher tier on the team. Keeping it in 4* terms, damage + stun + small protects + low AoE = good for 10 yellow AP.  IF this power was on a different color I would be less of a fan. 
Fury, Mockingbird, and MK / Vulture or any good green-black user can be a great team. 
MEHulk, Mockingbird, and Vulture or any blue-green-black user can be a great team.

Which of these powers is better overall? I'd say Fury by a bit. 

TL;DR: in Bold

Warbringa

Avengers Assemble (Nick Fury)

Sandmaker said:

Personally I'd argue Nick's Yellow is in the running for the best yellow active in the game right now, maybe even one of the best stuns in the game.

I just don't really like the rest of this abilities. His kit as a whole is fairly expensive, there's no synergy, and he doesn't have a passive, which is almost a prerequisite to be even considered these days. Although to be fair, two of these can be said about MEH Hulk as well.

Maybe several hundred leagues after IM40's yellow Recharge ability lol 

I personally like both 4* Gamora's stun and 3* Daredevil stun over Fury's stun

I do think Fury is a solid character after rework but I agree with you his powers are all stand alone with little synergy.  He stills holds the best trap tiles in the game though.