Gambit too strong? Buff lesser 5*s!

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  • Druiz23
    Druiz23 Posts: 32 Just Dropped In
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    I strongly feel that OML never should have been nerfed.  I wish they would go back and un-nerf him.
  • Jwallyr
    Jwallyr Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
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    Seriously nobody has brought up the power creep issue of buffing 5*s in general? Or is the expectation that once you get 3 5*s of any sort covered, you just quit using your 4*s?

    Seems like a horrible choice for any kind of balanced game design, but if the point is to let people buy wins through buying 5* tokens... ugh. P2W sucks.
  • Ruinate
    Ruinate Posts: 528 Critical Contributor
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    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    SnowcaTT said:
    Simple: worst ability for all 5*'s has a passive added that make aps in their other two colors.

    Problem solved, not broken at all.

    While this seems like a joke, this is EXACTLY what the devs decided when they released Gambit.

    I mean seriously, the worst 5* is arguably Banner, and if someone suggested a "fix" to him would be to allow +3 blue and +3 green every turn, that poster would be laughed off the boards.

    Yet here we are...
    Imagine if Ock had this.  Boioioioioioinggggg
  • byc
    byc Posts: 297 Mover and Shaker
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    D3 should do what they always do.

    Nerf him, and offer 100 HP for the inconvenience.
  • PolarPopBear
    PolarPopBear Posts: 76 Match Maker
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    Jwallyr said:
    Seriously nobody has brought up the power creep issue of buffing 5*s in general? Or is the expectation that once you get 3 5*s of any sort covered, you just quit using your 4*s?

    Seems like a horrible choice for any kind of balanced game design, but if the point is to let people buy wins through buying 5* tokens... ugh. P2W sucks.
    F2P player who moved into 5* through haording for 6+ months. Since moving into 5* I have used 4s for a niche ability that doesn't exist in 5 for particular boss/pve nodes; OR used boosted Carol.  a 4* needs to have extremely strong abilities that don't have equivalents in 5* land and have an unboost level of around 330+ to be competitive with 5*.  Carol's passive in particular is very strong in the match damage dependant 5* and had synergy with Thanos.  Now that Gambit exists however I don't know if i would even use Carol.  I have seen people using Peggy since she is boosted this week and her passive is reasonably strong against Gambit is his ability spam.
  • leeleeshine
    leeleeshine Posts: 24 Just Dropped In
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    Ugh, this thread went from possibly an interesting discussion on how to make some of the older 5*s relevant again to, "Gambit is op needs nerf" like every thread seems to devolve into nowadays.  
  • ViralCore
    ViralCore Posts: 164 Tile Toppler
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    Buffing older characters may change the meta but it doesn't fix it. Gambit just gets new and possibly better partners.
  • LifeofAgony
    LifeofAgony Posts: 690 Critical Contributor
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    leeleeshine said:
    Ugh, this thread went from possibly an interesting discussion on how to make some of the older 5*s relevant again to, "Gambit is op needs nerf" like every thread seems to devolve into nowadays.  
    The title of the thread is Gambit too Strong...   so doesn’t seem unreasonable to discuss this fact within the thread.

    If you’d like to start a “suggestions for 5* improvements” thread, by all means.  But don’t act shocked people are talking about gambit in a thread about gambit being too strong.
  • leeleeshine
    leeleeshine Posts: 24 Just Dropped In
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    LifeofAgony said:
    leeleeshine said:
    Ugh, this thread went from possibly an interesting discussion on how to make some of the older 5*s relevant again to, "Gambit is op needs nerf" like every thread seems to devolve into nowadays.  
    The title of the thread is Gambit too Strong...   so doesn’t seem unreasonable to discuss this fact within the thread.

    If you’d like to start a “suggestions for 5* improvements” thread, by all means.  But don’t act shocked people are talking about gambit in a thread about gambit being too strong.
    Contrary to the title, I think OP's intent was to start a discussion on how to make older characters competitive in the post-gambit meta. Nerfing Gambit tomorrow wouldn't change the fact that we have 5*s who aren't even usable in pvp or pve outside of match damage, looking at you Banner. So even if I agree that Gambit is a bit too much, I'd prefer not to hear how broken he is in every thread he's barely alluded to.
  • LifeofAgony
    LifeofAgony Posts: 690 Critical Contributor
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    I think it’s also order of priority.  Rebalancing banner doesn’t trump the necessity to fix gambit.  And as we’ve seen before, the boards need to be flooded with the same complaints to get things even looked at, let alone actually addressed.  

    Make every thread about Gambit until action is taken.
  • RedLion
    RedLion Posts: 70 Match Maker
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    As an intellectual exercise, take your highest covered 5* and play this game: “What would I have to do to this character to make him better than Gambit?” To make it a challenge, try not to use “passive ap generation” to fill the gap.

    I'll go first: My only fully-covered 5* is Surfer. I’d love to see the damage on surfer’s red increased 50%, and the damage on his black doubled. Gambit would still be 10x better.
    Hmm try again...Change surfer's black to create black hole with 5 turn countdown. When the countdown resolves: GALACTUS HIMSELF COMES THROUGH THE WORMHOLE and eats the other team. Game over.
    Nope...it would take too long to make that many black matches...Gambit's still faster.

    In all seriousness, Gambit is broken. Nothing will fix it until he is nerfed somehow. 

    Also, buff Surfer.
  • Ruinate
    Ruinate Posts: 528 Critical Contributor
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    My ideas to help Doc Ock without changing too many numbers.  Qol changes more than a direct buff.  Ock does a lot of good things, but not only is he expensive, he takes time to brew.  Reducing that brewing period is what he needs.  Not too much thought was put into this.  Probably just a bad idea all around, lul


    Black pros - Versatile stun, strike tiles, and damage wrapped in 1

    Black cons - Unreliable, too much delay until full effects

    Black idea - Create 1 strike tile on turn 1, create another on turn 2, damage on turn 3.  Leave stun as is.  Same ability but you get the goodies sooner, just not all at once


    Blue pros - Decent damage when blue AP is hoarded

    Blue cons - AP needs to be hoarded because tentacle tiles don't last.  When AP is hoarded, the passive component isn't utilized.  Even if the passive isn't great.

    Blue idea - Fortify the tentacles.  Possibly drop the cost to 9 from 10.  1 less match-3 before you can fire.


    Green pro - Big effects

    Green cons - Expensive, unreliable, massive delay in between upgrades.  Carol must be used to bypass the nonsense if immediate aoe is desired.

    Green idea - Instead of trying to prevent matching the tile, rework to so that matching the tile is desirable.  Drop the green AP refund from 11/14/18 to 8/6/0, but have the CD recreate itself and have the timer resume from where it was.  Matching the tile during final phase or when CD resolves during any phase triggers the base aoe effect.  Instant win gimmick removed.  I don't like preserving a tile for 10 turns and starting back over at 10 when the CD get's matched.  Instead chasing after it would be much more fun, I think.  Kind of like 3* Daredevil.

    Green alternative idea - CD starts at 4 turns, and with each upgrade the CD ticks up 3 turns.  Everything else stays the same.  Still a 10 turn CD if you want to bother upgrading, but Carol is no longer required if you just want to use this ability Thanos style.  
  • ramoramo86
    ramoramo86 Posts: 89 Match Maker
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    babinro said:
    We have a problem here. 
    5* Gambit is super strong but plenty of people have spent thousands upon thousands of dollars to whale him.   As a result, nerfing a character so soon after release would cause a whole host of lasting problems for the future of this game. 

    Nerfing a 5* character early is not even on the same level as nerfing a 4* or 3* early would have been.  As such, I think its probably unrealistic for D3 to take this drastic action.


    What's the solution?  

    Solve this problem the FUN way and get to BUFFING some 5*'s!   More importantly, lets try and solve this problem without creating other characters that are as oppressive as Gambit.   Giving Bruce Banner the ability to generate +3 green and +3 blue every turn won't fix the problem but just worsen it.


    Black Suit Spider-Man:
    - Blue:  Increase the length of stun.  2 or 3 turns depending on testing.
    - Purple:  In addition to disabling strike tiles, Spider-Man also converts X charged tiles into non-charged Web Tiles at the start of turn.


    5* Doctor Strange
    - Buff his health to match that of Gambits. 
    - Blue:  Reduce the AP cost (reduce blue damage per pulse to help balance this out if needed)
    - Purple: Include CD tiles and GREATLY reduce the AP cost of this skill since 3 purple is the default built. Seriously this skill could probably cost 5 AP and be 'fine' given its speed.


    Bruce Banner
    - Black: Add a stun component.  Banner's big...he hits hard...black skills can stun...we can make this work.  The skill needs a buff.
    - (Insert other banner buffs here since he's arguably the worst 5* in the game along side Doc Ock)


    5* Doc Ock
    - Blue: Tentacles passively disable charged tiles and reduce the cost of his Green.  

    I have to pat myself on the back for this one because it fits the thematic lore of the character wonderfully.   Doc is all about building an unstable reactor that's destined to fail.  What better way to make something unstable then by dangerously charging it with charge tiles?    Great right?  Right.   

    Also Doc Ock green is a useless skill that's beyond over costed.  So powering it up by giving this guy synergy with charged tile generators would be pretty cool.   Since you reduce the cost of Cunning Scheme and you aren't adding green AP it can't be abused too badly.


    Conclusion:

    I'm not we just do one of these things...I'm saying we do ALL of these things.   People are in favor of a better balanced 5* meta so lets give it to the people while also helping to solve the Gambit 'problem'.   Every season that sees a 5* buff can be accompanied by a 4* character that feeds those covers via champ rewards to boot.


    Your thoughts?   Any better ideas for character buffs? 
    So instead of fixing 1 character you want them to fix a a bunch of others? Good luck with that
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,057 Chairperson of the Boards
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    If they just changed his passive to only generate the AP when he's in front it would:

    1) Eliminate Gambat
    2) Make his AP generation have a drawback / requirement.

    That would open up game play options when facing him in enemy teams and make him trickier to use on your own team.

    KGB
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
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    Nerf gambit it goes back to thanos panther, nerf them it goes back to Hawkeye/coulson nerf that it goes to daredevil etc etc...


    the the funny thing is Thor is a huge upcoming power creep that everyone sleeping on because of gambit.

    i agree with buffing older 5’s otherwise it’s the same meta shifting stronger character just someone else instead of gambit
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    edited December 2017
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    KGB said:
    If they just changed his passive to only generate the AP when he's in front it would:

    1) Eliminate Gambat
    2) Make his AP generation have a drawback / requirement.

    That would open up game play options when facing him in enemy teams and make him trickier to use on your own team.

    KGB
    I like this idea a lot, more than any other I’ve seen


    id like them to give him something akin to 2 black widow were he steals hp on his strongest color matches.  And maybe buff his red color match damage a tad and lower the damage on his purple special 

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