Vote with your actions and wallet, not with your words

atomzed
atomzed Posts: 1,753 Chairperson of the Boards
edited November 2017 in MPQ General Discussion
https://www.polygon.com/2017/11/14/16648582/star-wars-battlefront-2-loot-box-ea-outrage

Came across this article that commented on the BFII outrage. 

it basically state that developers look at the data to make decisions. 

on that note, i think the reversal of the wins based system must have been due to the reduced engagement in the game.

actions (in the game) speaks louder than words (in forum and social media).
«1

Comments

  • WEBGAS
    WEBGAS Posts: 474 Mover and Shaker
    Due to recent changes, I become a F2P player.....in a few days my Vip subscription will expire and I won't renew it.
    Just stopped to buy anything and I promised myself to not spend a single cent more, over this game.
    I will get what I can accomplish and when/if I got tired, I will retire for good.
    Don't know if they will give a damn about this, but I couldn't care less at this point.
    If and when they will implement the game, with changes that will benefit the majority of players and not only the whales,
    then I will change my mind and will support this game again.
    Actions speak louder than words....so this is it. 
  • NotBAMF
    NotBAMF Posts: 408 Mover and Shaker
    I'm going to give points-based one season where I don't spend any money or renew my VIP subscription to voice my displeasure. And honestly, if the NEXT season is unaltered PVP? I'm just going to delete the app entirely. 
  • Michaelcles
    Michaelcles Posts: 100 Tile Toppler
    And how many more days is this game sustainable?  1500 is a long time for a mobile, licensed game across multiple platforms.
  • shartattack
    shartattack Posts: 370 Mover and Shaker
    NotBAMF said:
    For starters, I've only been playing for 300 days. :)

    But really, out of 300 days, for 150-200 or so, I was strictly a PVE player who only occasionally and very rarely ventured into PVP. It was a while before I got into PVP, but I did eventually, it was fine, even if I never really "liked" it. 

    But after a while of PVP, the system changed to the wins-based system, and... how could I explain my feelings here?

    Imagine that for 300 days, you were eating lukewarm fast food burgers and stale cookies. They are fine, and they're what you know, so it's no problem. You chow down. But then, for a month, someone gives you strip steak and fresh New York cheesecake. And for a month, you think "Wow, I never knew things could be this good!".

    And after that month, they go back to the burgers and cookies. Would you say "Well, this is fine. It's what I had before"? Nah, you'd think "I know something better is out there, and that is what I want now. This no longer cuts it".

    Well I don't want to go back to points-based PVP. For me, it is the lukewarm fast food and stale cookies to wins-based progression's steak and cheesecake. 

    This is all combined with the fact that I have grown weary of PVE. The addition of the 5* node (and then the bewildering decision to subsequently slash the points you get for competing in it) has made PVE feel far too tedious. And the whole scheduled nature of when you should play to achieve the best standing... ugh. I don't want to have to plan my day around this game.

    Before last night when I found out that PVP was reverting to points-based, I had made the decision to go to being a player who went hard at PVP and just fooled around in PVE enough to get max progression and not worry about anything else. MPQ was becoming less rigidly scheduled and time-consuming and more something I could do at my leisure and feel like it was a game designed to amuse me and bring me fun. 

    But with points-based progression back, I'm really just tired of BOTH facets of the game at the moment. PVE is still too time-consuming and tedious, and now PVP is once again a slog against an avalanche. 

    So yeah, the game showed me how relaxing and fun it could be, and now that it has taken that away, I feel disenchanted with the whole thing.

    Your mileage, obviously, may vary. I'm not saying everyone should feel how I feel. But that is how I personally feel. I'm far from a whale, but I am a VIP, and I have dropped $20 every few months into the game. I'm done putting a penny into it under the current system. That's all I can do.

    If points-based progression has returned for good AND PVE isn't changed SOMEHOW to reduce the time it requires to perform relevantly, then I'm not having the fun I was having previously, so... why would I continue doing it? 

    I'm sorry, truly that the switch is worse for you.  I checked out your roster for the other thread, and you have a good number of 4* champs for day 300.  You are well on your way to having a great roster.  One reason why you have so many champed 4s is due to the vaulting that happened right before you started playing.  Many people hated, some people loved it.  I  was neutral, but it benefited me, like it benefited you. I'm day 505, and like you, am VIP, but otherwise, I'll get a loonie during a sale, and that is it. (no whale here) 
    The change might not feel good now, but as you continue to play, you will see that it will benefit you long term.  This was the only recent change that will require less time.  5 clears, 5* essential, cl9, wins pvp all added time to your mpq commitment. 
    Slashing points in the 5* essential might make your score lower, but it will help your placement, as many players in top alliances will have to move to cl8 or 9 so that their pve scores are competitive.  
    Once you reach that critical mass of having 2 boosted 4s every week, you'll be able to get the 4* cover in much less time than you were spending to get 40 wins.  Good luck to you.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    sh81 said:


    Put it this way, on day 1, if you asked the Devs where they envision the game to be at day 1500 - do you think they would predict PVP to require this:

    ******************************************************************************************************************
     Take note of what point levels you see certain teams, and what point levels you stop seeing certain teams. Take note of how long you can go unshielded at certain point levels before someone hits you, what kinds of characters you're using when you take the most hits, how frequently hits may come. On the other side, what kinds of teams are people largely avoiding when you use them? What level of points are you "safe" at when you're not using an A-team? When you ARE using an A-team? At what point do the 40+ point matches start to go away, how much time is left when you see the most high-point matches, etc......There is quite a wealth of knowledge to be gained if you take the time to account for it, and I assure you it will make you a better player. Knowing how to do a double-hop against boosted-4 star characters in 5 minutes or less comes in pretty handy when you're competing in PVE with rosters that can do their clears in 30-45 minutes. 

    [Taken from a poster defending PVP in another thread]
    ******************************************************************************************************************





    Lol! I have noticed from the forum that this game does seem to appeal to people who are really good at making charts and calculating statistics! I guess it is no great surprise that PvP has grown to the equivalent of a mathematical algorithm.
  • shartattack
    shartattack Posts: 370 Mover and Shaker
    DAZ0273 said:
    sh81 said:


    Put it this way, on day 1, if you asked the Devs where they envision the game to be at day 1500 - do you think they would predict PVP to require this:

    ******************************************************************************************************************
     Take note of what point levels you see certain teams, and what point levels you stop seeing certain teams. Take note of how long you can go unshielded at certain point levels before someone hits you, what kinds of characters you're using when you take the most hits, how frequently hits may come. On the other side, what kinds of teams are people largely avoiding when you use them? What level of points are you "safe" at when you're not using an A-team? When you ARE using an A-team? At what point do the 40+ point matches start to go away, how much time is left when you see the most high-point matches, etc......There is quite a wealth of knowledge to be gained if you take the time to account for it, and I assure you it will make you a better player. Knowing how to do a double-hop against boosted-4 star characters in 5 minutes or less comes in pretty handy when you're competing in PVE with rosters that can do their clears in 30-45 minutes. 

    [Taken from a poster defending PVP in another thread]
    ******************************************************************************************************************





    Lol! I have noticed from the forum that this game does seem to appeal to people who are really good at making charts and calculating statistics! I guess it is no great surprise that PvP has grown to the equivalent of a mathematical algorithm.

    Figuring out that a 3* team frontrunning and worth a ton of points is going to get tapped by everyone in the entire bracket is so easy, that even a caveman can do it.  No spreadsheets. No calculus.  Common sense, dude.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    shartattack said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    sh81 said:


    Put it this way, on day 1, if you asked the Devs where they envision the game to be at day 1500 - do you think they would predict PVP to require this:

    ******************************************************************************************************************
     Take note of what point levels you see certain teams, and what point levels you stop seeing certain teams. Take note of how long you can go unshielded at certain point levels before someone hits you, what kinds of characters you're using when you take the most hits, how frequently hits may come. On the other side, what kinds of teams are people largely avoiding when you use them? What level of points are you "safe" at when you're not using an A-team? When you ARE using an A-team? At what point do the 40+ point matches start to go away, how much time is left when you see the most high-point matches, etc......There is quite a wealth of knowledge to be gained if you take the time to account for it, and I assure you it will make you a better player. Knowing how to do a double-hop against boosted-4 star characters in 5 minutes or less comes in pretty handy when you're competing in PVE with rosters that can do their clears in 30-45 minutes. 

    [Taken from a poster defending PVP in another thread]
    ******************************************************************************************************************





    Lol! I have noticed from the forum that this game does seem to appeal to people who are really good at making charts and calculating statistics! I guess it is no great surprise that PvP has grown to the equivalent of a mathematical algorithm.

    Figuring out that a 3* team frontrunning and worth a ton of points is going to get tapped by everyone in the entire bracket is so easy, that even a caveman can do it.  No spreadsheets. No calculus.  Common sense, dude.
    It might be common sense but would no doubt be improved with a chart or three!

    Anyway, no offense intended, I just found it funny.
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    sh81 said:
    [deleted to save space]

    And the frustration for me is that its really not that impossible to fix.

    1) actually work out a reasonable way of matching shield rank to roster strength.  IMO literally just score rosters based upon rarity and levels.  So simple.  3* rostered =50 points.  Every 3* level = +10 points.  Every champ level +20 points.  4* rostered = 75 points.  Every 4* level = +20 points.  Every champ level = +40 points.

    The numbers really dont matter, just the fact that an arbitrary value for each cover applied will give a score reflective of the roster in real time as it stands.

    2) PVE.  Rebalance SCL's and just as importantly the rewards within.  Make it so people are actually in the appropriate level getting rewards that over time advance their roster.  Again, so simple.  We have 9SCLs, 6 are dedicated to rosters that will be in SCL7 from around 6 months playing.  This needs to change.

    SCL1 = 1* roster
    SCL2 = 2*transition
    SCL3 = 3* roster
    SCL4 = 4* transition..

    Its not rocket science is it?

    3) When addressing rewards realise that 4*s are not the end game, are not diamond encrusted opals, and should be offered more readily.

    4) When addressing rewards understand lower SCLs need more HP, higher SCLS need more ISO and CP.  Its all about the right balance at the right stage.

    5) PVP.  Open MMR so its not so freaking repetitive.

    6) Look at options to suit all.  Win based really worked for me and a lot of people.  Maybe tweak it (and rewards) to suit all?  Maybe look at a hybrid?  Its been done to death and there are many quality suggestions all across the forum.


    The point being, ultimately, "its been that way for so long" really isnt a defense of the game.  In many ways its a condemnation.



    I really want to touch on point 3 you made. I see this all the time and I believe (my opinion only) that this is a common misconception.

    4*s are the end game. 5* are just a vanity piece, if you will. The reasoning is pretty simple.

    5* are primarily hid behind RNG. Now you can get them thru HfH, but I'll touch on that a bit more in a minute. If everyone could quickly level up their 4*, due to more 4* being widely available, then a whole lot more people would be stuck in the same place as the people complaining about CP being put in placement. To many, CP is virtually the only way to seriously advance their roster, and then its still luck. If you're dedicated, you'll hang in there, obviously. But far more people would hit that wall and quit. MPQ absolutely does not want that.

    By churning out 2 4* for every 5* in new releases, they keep a large portion of players happy. It is very easy with just a little money/lot of time spent to get to 4* land. Probably even easier for new players. But once you get to 4* land things start really slowing down because of the ISO crunch. However, you really can remain in the 4* land nearly forever. Most people will technically never hit that wall, where they only need 5*. And that keeps the game going. Now people are getting burned out because of that wall, and that's why we've got the 5* HfH now. Its so that everyone can actually have a real chance at any 5* cover. Its not a good deal, per se, but it is a good deal in the right circumstances. 

    When you see 4* given away like candy it will likely signal one of two things:
    1) The game is nearing the end and they're going to milk it for every penny.
    2) They may be introducing a 6* tier.

    I don't believe there is any intention to continue this game into the 6* tier. I could be wrong, of course. It appears they want to stay course, and keep people playing for as long as possible. Slowly people will join the 5* tier, if at all. They really don't care. 4* and under are where they want the focus to be.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    The recent introduction of the 5* Essential and the PvE changes which benefitted 5* rosters suggests that possibly the devs might be looking at how they can make 5* more than just a trophy level though.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Tile Toppler
    I dont think 4* should be given out like candy, but I do think they should be given at a higher rate. It is an ever expanding rarity, including the Hulk released with this event currently 59 characters. With perfect distribution/aquisition thats 767 covers. No small feat, especially when you consider its not a fixed number. With every release (every 2 or 3 weeks?) it goes up by 13. Of course, ISO needs to be factored in and considered as well. My point used the word balance - deliberately. IMO each SCL should award rewards such that your roster builds steadily at that level until you can push into the next level. Where the rewards awarded allow you to build steadily... No intent to have things handed out in extreme. Just appropriately. The CP issue is more pronounced at 5* level, where basically Latest Legends are your only route to 5*s, and to get one you end up with a bunch of 4*s that only add champ levels rather than anything you are chasing. Again, in a sensible reward structure, these players would have the opportunity to also win 5*s by placing well in an appropriate SCL.
  • Avalanche Kincaid
    Avalanche Kincaid Posts: 83 Match Maker
    edited November 2017
    PvP has always gotten easier to progress the better your roster gets.  When my roster was less then 1 year old I played PvP to get to the season 10 pack and certainly did'nt expect to get all progression rewards.  PvE at that time I could get top 5 easily so it eased the burdened of not being competitive in PvP.  If you feel the need to quit then quit there is no need to add stress to your life, but if you decide you want to stay then stick around and hoard your CP until you have enough to fully cover 2 good 5*.  At this point you can bring your 5*'s to around L375 and keep leveling your 4* as they come in as the 10cp pvp becomes easy to get.  Another way to go is level that one good 5* to 450 (make sure it's a good one like gambit) and keep the rest under 375.  You will be able to get the 4* progression easily.  You will also be surprised how much less time you are spending in the game.  PvE grinds in CL 7 will be a joke to you.  4* progression in pvp will take about 40 minutes.  If you late join a bracket you might be able to get top 10.  40 wins might seem perfect for you now, but you will learn to hate it in the future.
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    DAZ0273 said:
    The recent introduction of the 5* Essential and the PvE changes which benefitted 5* rosters suggests that possibly the devs might be looking at how they can make 5* more than just a trophy level though.
    Possibly. I look at it more along the lines of what I touched on earlier. Those people made it too far, too fast, how do we keep them engaged? But its all speculation on our parts.
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    Avalanche Kincaid said:
    PvP has always gotten easier to progress the better your roster gets.  When my roster was less then 1 year old I played PvP to get to the season 10 pack and certainly did'nt expect to get all progression rewards.  PvE at that time I could get top 5 easily so it eased the burdened of not being competitive in PvP.  If you feel the need to quit then quit there is no need to add stress to your life, but if you decide you want to stay then stick around and hoard your CP until you have enough to fully cover 2 good 5*.  At this point you can bring your 5*'s to around L375 and keep leveling your 4* as they come in as the 10cp pvp becomes easy to get.  Another way to go is level that one good 455 (make sure it's a good one like gambit) and keep the rest under 375.  You will be able to get the 4* progression easily.  You will also be surprised how much less time you are spending in the game.  PvE grinds in CL 7 will be a joke to you.  4* progression in pvp will take about 40 minutes.  If you late join a bracket you might be able to get top 10.  40 wins might seem perfect for you now, but you will learn to hate it in the future.
    I have Starlord at 451. Other than getting more powerful, do I gain some sort of MMR advantage with him at 455 vs 451?
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    Beer40 said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    The recent introduction of the 5* Essential and the PvE changes which benefitted 5* rosters suggests that possibly the devs might be looking at how they can make 5* more than just a trophy level though.
    Possibly. I look at it more along the lines of what I touched on earlier. Those people made it too far, too fast, how do we keep them engaged? But its all speculation on our parts.
    Agreed. 5* have been a thing for a while now though so it makes you wonder why they have only now started giving this level more attention. Addressing the problems with scaling was a topic well vented about but I think the 5*E caught most people off guard.
  • Avalanche Kincaid
    Avalanche Kincaid Posts: 83 Match Maker
    haha beer, I edit it before you posted, but yes, starlord is OP at L 455, he yellow will turn the whole board into charged green tiles
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,939 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    NotBAMF said:
    For starters, I've only been playing for 300 days. :)

    But really, out of 300 days, for 150-200 or so, I was strictly a PVE player who only occasionally and very rarely ventured into PVP. It was a while before I got into PVP, but I did eventually, it was fine, even if I never really "liked" it. 

    But after a while of PVP, the system changed to the wins-based system, and... how could I explain my feelings here?

    Imagine that for 300 days, you were eating lukewarm fast food burgers and stale cookies. They are fine, and they're what you know, so it's no problem. You chow down. But then, for a month, someone gives you strip steak and fresh New York cheesecake. And for a month, you think "Wow, I never knew things could be this good!".

    And after that month, they go back to the burgers and cookies. Would you say "Well, this is fine. It's what I had before"? Nah, you'd think "I know something better is out there, and that is what I want now. This no longer cuts it".

    Well I don't want to go back to points-based PVP. For me, it is the lukewarm fast food and stale cookies to wins-based progression's steak and cheesecake. 

    This is all combined with the fact that I have grown weary of PVE. The addition of the 5* node (and then the bewildering decision to subsequently slash the points you get for competing in it) has made PVE feel far too tedious. And the whole scheduled nature of when you should play to achieve the best standing... ugh. I don't want to have to plan my day around this game.

    Before last night when I found out that PVP was reverting to points-based, I had made the decision to go to being a player who went hard at PVP and just fooled around in PVE enough to get max progression and not worry about anything else. MPQ was becoming less rigidly scheduled and time-consuming and more something I could do at my leisure and feel like it was a game designed to amuse me and bring me fun. 

    But with points-based progression back, I'm really just tired of BOTH facets of the game at the moment. PVE is still too time-consuming and tedious, and now PVP is once again a slog against an avalanche. 

    So yeah, the game showed me how relaxing and fun it could be, and now that it has taken that away, I feel disenchanted with the whole thing.

    Your mileage, obviously, may vary. I'm not saying everyone should feel how I feel. But that is how I personally feel. I'm far from a whale, but I am a VIP, and I have dropped $20 every few months into the game. I'm done putting a penny into it under the current system. That's all I can do.

    If points-based progression has returned for good AND PVE isn't changed SOMEHOW to reduce the time it requires to perform relevantly, then I'm not having the fun I was having previously, so... why would I continue doing it? 

    Haven’t read the rest of the thread but this is a really good point. PVE will drive out newer players by only catering to vets and whales who either have every character or can buy essentials with hoards of CP.  Sure you can compete at a lower SCL but when it’s time to transition to the 4-tier all those covers go to those that don’t need them. 

    PVP was finally a playing ground that welcomed new players... where if you were willing to put in the effort you could progress and advance your roster. 5-players didn’t like this and it was changed back. 

    Tinfoil hat activated!

    I wonder how sustainable this game really is with both modes only catering to the top tier and strongly walling off substantial progression for newer rosters. 

    I wonder if they know the game isn’t going to last much longer so they are going to milk what they can from the people willing to fork over small fortunes to have a slight advantage in a match 3 game. I mean why care about keeping new players if the game isn’t going to be around?

    Tinfoil hat deactivated!
  • WEBGAS
    WEBGAS Posts: 474 Mover and Shaker
    Just played the first PVP with points based rules......15 matches to get 575points and 10cp......then lost 100 points in a few seconds....this way I never get that green Lockjaw cover, so I gave up. Do you want me to play this way?
    OK, but I won't spend a single cent for it;)

Categories