Let's workshop the PVP crisis together!

meekersX

Other - I'll explain in the comments

Neither implemented PvP system is good. They need to go back to the drawing board, and really think about what they are trying to accomplish with PvP.

As I see it, there are three main ways that people are compared in games: skill, strength, and time. In MPQ, skill is how well you play matches or the system, strength is how good your roster is, and time is how much time you spend playing an event. Skill in playing matches makes a small difference, but in playing the system, shield hopping and collusion is a larger factor. Strength of roster makes a difference between tiers, but not within a tier. Overall, the largest discriminator in PvP is the time spent playing. An Elo-ranking system only makes sense when skill in playing matches is the primary discriminator, which is not the case in MPQ.

I recommend radical changes to the system.

First, separate players by tier. The MMR system attempts to do this already to ensure that people don't play others with drastically different rosters. However, everyone is still competing for the same rewards. Let players select an event tier to enter where only a selection of their roster is enabled. This could be by rarity, boosted level, or even base level. In the event, let anyone fight anyone completely randomly. Each player can only select one event to enter, and they only compete for placement awards with people that have selected the same event and have the same roster restrictions.

Second, present only one match at a time to players, and do not allow skipping of matches. A player must play and win or lose the match in front of them. This removes the unnecessary ISO-tax.

Third, change to a match-based ranking system. Players are ranked only by how many matches they have won in their event. Start earlier, and you have more time to win matches. Start later, and you have less. If an excessive number of matches are required to rank, it's only because someone else is willing to play that number of matches. It's self-regulating. This also allows the removal of time-slices in PvP.

Fourth, no health packs are used in PvP. Characters begin matches at full health and are usable regardless of their status out of the match. Damage taken during a match in PvP is not reflected outside of the match. This means damage is taken and health packs are only used in PvE. It opens more design space up for characters, and allows you to use "fun" teams more easily.

Fifth, after a certain number of free matches per event, require spending of HP per match played. Yes, this means that people can spend HP to place better in events by playing more matches. They did this already with shields. However, it also means that they have to play the game for longer too. The number of free matches per event can be tuned so that there is a sufficient level of income for the game. If necessary, a HP entrance fee could be required for the event too.

Sixth, progression rewards, like the trialed system, are based only on matches played. Add the 15 CP back to progression. Halve, or at least reduce by a third, the number of matches required to earn this CP. Consider adding additional progression rewards at more matches played with the understanding that a player would have to spend HP to earn the necessary number of wins.

I think this system would solve most of the problems with proposed systems: losing progress and sniping, collusion and shield hopping, ISO tax, time-slice imbalances, true health and passive damage power. It allows extremely flexible playing. It can also be easily tuned so that d3 can earn sufficient money from the game. Not enough money being made?: increase per-match cost or event entry fee. It's completely transparent.

With that said, a new system should be introduced in parallel with the current system. Should it prove to be sufficiently popular, the old system can be discontinued in due time.

veny

Wins-based with 15CP reward and fewer wins required (basically opts 4+5 together)

I dunno... for me PvP are extremely difficult and fighting 5*s takes minutes.
I dont think they would come with system that would reflect that. Personally i would prefer getting points for damage dealt to enemy, multiplied by 2 if you win - that would reflect increasing difficulty, and actually reward for getting better roster, instead of punishing like it is now.

In the end, i doubt i will return to PvP, since both system (point based and win based) are basically equal for me - what matters is that i have to fight teams with 100k HP+ total, and it takes too much time.

Milk Jugz

killerkoala said:

Evil Dude said:

Combine the systems.  900 points OR 40 wins gets 4* cover.  Everyone is happy, problem solved.

in the win progression 40 win got u a 2nd 3* cover not a 4* , so that is the way it should stay

What clearance level are you playing? In cl8, where I play, the win based gave you a 4* cover at 40 wins.

I didn't answer the poll because I have two answers. Optimally, I think they should make no changes. Versus has worked this way since the advent of the game. If your roster is in the 2-3* tier you're just not going to be able to get the 900 points needed for the 4* cover, that's just the way it is. And yes I and all the other vets understand what it feels like we have been there, it gets better as you progress your roster and eventually you get to the point where you can hit 900. To all the people that are 3-4* transitioners and 4* rosters that claim you still can't hit 900, learn the strategy to play Versus. It is truly that simple, if you're unwilling to do so than other people should not have to suffer because of your laziness or ineptitude.

If the devs decide they absolutely have to make a change then I would say the best thing to keep the highest percentage of the player base happy is a hybrid system with the 15 cp at 1200 points only. That way you could earn the 10 cp at 575 points or 16 wins, the 4* cover at 900 points or 40 wins. But, since it seems the devs don't want to hand out cp to anyone that can grind out wins, it won't matter if you win 100 matches if you don't cross 1200 points you don't get the 15 cp at the end.

NotBAMF

Wins-based with fewer wins required per reward

Well, we're about a week away from a new season starting. I wonder what, if any, changes they will make this time.

Wumpushunter

Wins-based with 15CP reward and fewer wins required (basically opts 4+5 together)

Just fix the match making and it can be either one, not enough people in my league put in an actually leveled seed team dont give the 3 options to take on 3 teams 80 levels above me.

ZootSax

Other - I'll explain in the comments

Fix MMR in general or at least allow for players to see shielded teams (although not affect their score, obviously).  As far as I saw, during the wins-based progression season scores of lower-tier players like myself generally increased because there were decent point (35+) unshielded people to load up for much of the climb.  In the current season, points are again mostly dried up above 300 and entirely so above 575, so looking above that is basically pointless.  I'd be willing the learn the system in PVP better if MMR didn't make it such a desolate wasteland of 12-26 pt teams once you got past the first event token.

Orion

Other - I'll explain in the comments

I chose other - points-based PvP, but fix the progression rewards so they make some freaking sense.

The Progression rewards in PvP haven't changed in 3 years other than adding CP.  Back then a 3* cover was a big deal and a 4* cover was a REALLY big deal.  Now?  Not so much.  Move those covers way down in the progression table so the 3* and 4* players can actually earn them.  Move the CP up a bit higher so people can't just stop at 575 and call it a day.  Maybe even add in a 2nd 3* cover in CL8 to make it more like PvE.

Phumade

aesthetocyst said:

Orion said:

The Progression rewards in PvP haven't changed in 3 years other than adding CP.

Incorrect. They have changed a lot, and been changed several times. Covers moved down significantly, amounts of this and that released, and ofc SCLs brought variation.

But yes, they are overdue for moving again.

For reference, the progression from 3yrs ago:


25. Standard Token
50. 100 
100. +3 All Boosts      
200. 250 
300. Recruit Token - Real Steel
400. 25 
500.   
600. 25 
700. 1000 
800. 50 
900. Recruit Token - Real Steel
1000. 1000 
1100.    
1200. 1000 
1300.     

Woah Woah  what everyone complaining about?  we've come a long way since the days of XFW and IF

turbomoose

Wins-based with fewer wins required per reward

I have barely played this season due to the return of the points based system, the win based was a grind but at least I knew there was a guaranteed reward for my efforts 

i will probably have a go properly next season but it seems my roster is in that 4-5* limbo where the AI thinks I’m able to beat 5* teams even though I don’t have a single 5* character above level 255

also I never get to see any fights over 70 points so it would take me several hours of grinding to get a decent score 

having just lost lost my father to a long illness, real life issues are more important to me than a mobile match game 

veny

Wins-based with 15CP reward and fewer wins required (basically opts 4+5 together)

After return of point based wins, i am doing SHIELD PvP... geez, even without win-based mode PvP is becoming more and more annoying.
5*s everywhere, especially the strong ones (my OML is good tank but among 5*s he is the worst one unless you manage to activate his actives before he dies, which is easier than it seemed months ago), often accompanied with 005 Gambit.
Even if i find doable opponent, match takes much much longer than SCL 9 PvE (i would say it is comparable to 5* PVE node).
Dunno why, but all PvP events are more and more difficult and time consuming. Time to abandon PvP once again.

roberts_2

Wins-based with 15CP reward and fewer wins required (basically opts 4+5 together)

For me is not a problem of points or wins, the real problem is that absurd MMR who makes me fight basically with my 2 promoted 5* and let me left aside my 44 promoted 4* if i wanna no retaliations with hundred of points losed against 5* teams with more level than mines.

Really, i don't see the fun on this MMR system. The firts fix would be the MMR, later the progressión system. Right now it's no funny to play PVP.

elvy75

I personally prefer points based PvP because it is faster for me to get to 1200 points than to get to 40 wins. But i also think that something has to be done for people who don't have as strong roster as mine. In my opinion simple fix could be something like this:
 
cl1-7: win based, with max reward at 30 wins being 4* cover at cl7 (maybe put cp at something like 50 wins as well, for those who are willing to grind as much)
Cl8-9: points based, with cp as last progression reward on both

veny

Wins-based with 15CP reward and fewer wins required (basically opts 4+5 together)

How about...damage based system? You just get points for dealing damage, no matter if you win or lose (winners will get some bonuses of course). With this system, PvP would notbe that frustrating, you will be rewarded for better roster rather than punished, and you could use every of your character, not only the strongest combos.

I am really thinking about how to improve PvP, but i am afraid with this system based on matching equaly strong rosters and rewarding them with same points... how can we fix the system that is based huge time consumption, frustration (most matches are based on luck and there is no way how to become stronger than foes matchmaking is offering you) on NOT rewarding you for building better roster?

PvE is easy - you have enemies who have their power predefined. You are building your roster to get in higher SCL, meeting stronger foes, and getting better reward.

PvP? Building roster? - doesnt make enemy weaker. Higher SCL? - better rewards, but enemy power is based on your power. Better reward? - worse reward with better roster thanks to whales, OP combos and powered up characters.


PvP needs these things:
1) It must reflect your roster in a good way, not the bad one (either in rewards or in difficulty)
2) It must not be frustrating (losing battles, losing points, meeting strong foes with OP combos etc.)