Let's workshop the PVP crisis together!

NotBAMF

Okay, so people were unhappy about the wins-based system. And people are unhappy about the points-based system. And in the announcement thread, the developers noted that both systems kind of sucked for different reasons. So beyond actually complaining, what is the SOLUTION?

So I am creating this thread based off some ideas I had in order for the forum to use its collective voice to see if we can finally fix PVP/Versus going into the next season. Here are my thoughts:

1) Leave Versus as Points-based the way it is. No changes. This is pretty self-explanatory. See how the Reality Season currently is? Leave it like that forever. 

2) Go back to the Wins-based setting of last season as-was. No changes. Again, pretty easy to grasp. Go back to the way it was a few days ago and leave it. 

3) Keep a Points-based system, BUT eliminate progress loss. This keeps a points-based record standing wherein tracking down the meatiest targets still reaps rewards, there is still strategy behind who you hit and why, and the speed at which you gain rewards is up to you. BUT it also eliminates the reason most of the people who hate points-base hate it: the Sisyphusian feeling of getting slammed back down the progress standings when you take an L (or ten). EDIT: Update here: each player could have two sets of points. One "gross" that doesn't decrease and is used for progress rewards, and one "net" that works the way current Points-based works that would determine placement. 

4) Return to the Wins-based system, but add the 1200 point/15 CP reward back in. The loss of the 15CP from progression seemed, to me, the biggest complaint of the Wins-based season. I doubt most people would have had a problem with the change if not for this loss. So add it back in. Make it the progress reward at, say 45 wins?

5) Return to the Wins-based system, but lower the progress required to earn rewards. The other problem people had with the W-B system was that they felt they were earning rewards much slower than they were under the P-B system. It was the opposite of my experience, but I empathize. What would be good figures here? 12 wins for the 10CP? 30 for the 4* cover? Add your suggestions to the comments.

6) Wins-based system + the 15CP added back in + lessen the wins required for rewards. I feel like this is the cheat code option and almost everyone will pick it, but I get that the developers might hesitate and assume this is just giving stuff away. But if I DON'T include it as an option, I assume a lot of people are going to pick "Other" and suggest this.

7) Other - Explain in the comments!

EDIT 8) This came up late, and I can't edit the poll: Run both wins-based AND points-based simultaneously. It's basically the wins-based system, but rewards ALSO have a points value, and if you hit 900 points well before you get 40 wins, you get that 4* cover reward. Vice versa if you hit 40 wins well before 900 points. 

NotBAMF

Wins-based with fewer wins required per reward

I, personally, am okay with any options that ISN'T option #1, so I'll hold off on voting.

Also, I decided not to include some cross-breed options like "Points-based, but take the 1200 point/15 CP reward away and put it back as a placement reward" or "Wins-based, but make it so your losses remove your progress" because it seems like those are counter-intuitive to what anyone actually wants. Including those would have been pointless. 

Il galvanico

Wins-based with 15CP reward and fewer wins required (basically opts 4+5 together)

Wins-based with 15CP reward and fewer wins required and/or defensive wins count as well.

Starfury

Points-based WITHOUT loss of progression

The open question for me is whether you should lose points if you retreat or lose (or lose connection - can't really get around that)

If you don't, you'd probably incentivize people throwing matches to drop in score to have the potential for higher value matches. On the other hand you might question if that's much of a problem.

Uthgarprime

I will tell you what system will be implemented. It will be the one that makes them the most money. Revenues must have been down significantly for them to end win based so soon.

killerkoala

why not a hybrid of both win and/or points making progression. but like it's 1st iteration win progression doesn't get 4* or 15 cp like in the previous win progression table, just 2nd 3* for 40 wins.

nonnel1

Other - I'll explain in the comments

Cat memes will solve this issue

Jabrony_Geoff

Other - I'll explain in the comments

I'm past caring. 
These guys don't care about us why should we care about them.
I go back to the Deadpool daily node that awards two CP.

PenniesForEveryone

Other - I'll explain in the comments

Point based as it was/is, but move CP to placement.

shartattack

Other - I'll explain in the comments

they will never not have point loss.  shields would be unnecessary.  a compromise would be to give a reset time on your shield once it expires, as in a certain number of minutes after your shield expires before you could lose points. An example would be a blanket 7 minute grace period after your shield expires before you could be hit, or the grace period could be longer or shorter, depending on the length of the shield.

Roland113

Points-based WITHOUT loss of progression

I voted option 3, but after thinking more I'd have probably chosen option 7, other.  Leave it like it was and track points two ways, track progression points separately from placement points.  Progression points don't get taken away with losses, placement points function normally and can be lost.

NotBAMF

Wins-based with fewer wins required per reward

shartattack said:

they will never not have point loss.  shields would be unnecessary.  a compromise would be to give a reset time on your shield once it expires, as in a certain number of minutes after your shield expires before you could lose points. An example would be a blanket 7 minute grace period after your shield expires before you could be hit, or the grace period could be longer or shorter, depending on the length of the shield.

I didn't mean for any of the options to imply that there would be NO point tracking. I think that's still integral to placement. I might be wrong, but I don't think anyone has any issues with that aspect. I was just workshopping the progression dilemma.

Roland113 said:

I voted option 3, but after thinking more I'd have probably chosen option 7, other.  Leave it like it was and track points two ways, track progression points separately from placement points.  Progression points don't get taken away with losses, placement points function normally and can be lost.

I first saw that idea bandied about literally MINUTES after I posted this poll. If I could add it as an option, I would, but as far as I can see, the forum doesn't let you edit polls after you create them (which makes sense, but makes me feel like a schmuck for not thinking of that option myself). 

PenniesForEveryone

Other - I'll explain in the comments

If you can't lose points it's no longer PvP, it's just a grind-fest where your opponents happen to be the rosters of other players.

The rockett

While I am not saying the PVP system is perfect, to call this a "PVP crisis" is a little far fetched.  As I said in the other thread, 1500 days the game has been live of those 1462 has been point based and 38 has been win based.  38 days does not make a "PVP crisis".  If they would like to do a win based progression some how, fine, but points matter.  They matter for placement for the event, they matter for the season placement and the matter for the Ally placement.  So points need to be involved some how just like they are for PVE and your personal and ally rewards.  I have seen a lot of great ideas from other people that will not destroy what PVP is, Player verse Player.  Yes Yes I know it is not live but it is against somebody else's team. 

DaveR4470

PvP without point loss is just PvE.  I don't think that will ever be an option.

rixmith

Other - I'll explain in the comments

I think a reasonable compromise is Point-based with no point loss for defensive losses unless you are over 900 points. This allows those who just want to play for progression to get to the 4* (but not the CP). Competing for placement still would require shielding and considering your defensive teams. There would still be point loss for losing battles you initiate, so there wouldn't be huge incentive to throw fights to your friends. 

NotBAMF

Wins-based with fewer wins required per reward

I've just seen the idea thrown around as this, and I steal it to further explain how option #3 would work:

You would have basically two sets of points. You would have your progression points (or "gross points", if you will), which can only increase and can never decrease. These are the points used towards progression rewards.

You would also have placement points (or "net points"), which is your points total minus whatever points you have lost. These are the points used towards placement scores.

So you would have "points loss" without progress loss. Last season simultaneously kept track of points and wins. I don't see why this would be any worse. 

CNash

Other - I'll explain in the comments

Wins-based, but the wins are worth more or less points on a fixed scale based on their team strength. Teams as strong as yours are worth 2 points, weaker ones worth 1 point, stronger ones worth 3 points. Now grinding it out against neverending Gamora-Grocket teams doesn't feel like a slog.

broll

Points-based WITHOUT loss of progression

I’ve been a long time proponent of points without progression losses idea. Way less complicated change that keeps one of the only good things about points PvP (the variable points)

TheHungryPet

Other - I'll explain in the comments

I'd like to see a hybrid system: You earn your progression rewards either through wins or points.

E.G. whatever you hit first (16 wins OR 575 points) will earn you 10cp. 

This has the benefit of keeping it simple (win count and points) and progression rewards are within realistic reach for all players.

maguirenumber6

Other - I'll explain in the comments

There are some players who like the points-based PvP, who can consistently get up to the higher rewards and can spend money on the game on lots of HP packs to shield whenever they want. There are also some players who prefer the wins-based PvP, who perhaps have less-deveoped rosters and who still want to try some of the rewards, buy who are afraid of getting annihilated by higher level players. 

My idea is - why not give everyone the choice of which kind of PvP they'd like to play at the start of the season? When you first enter the new season and select your level, you also have an option screen that pops up which reads "Select PvP Format", with one button that says "POINTS" and another below it that says "WINS". Each of these buttons will be adorned with a small image of Deadpool, because why not.

If you select points, you enter the old-style points PvP system, with lots of lovely shields to buy and the risk of being smashed for 200 points five mins from the end of the event.

If you select wins, you enter the wins-based system, where the pressure is lessened and you can play along at your own pace and can feel free to stop once you've hit the target you want to aim for.

This way, the big spenders and the casual players will both be happy, and the revenue stream will be unaffected. Please let me know what you think of this idea.